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> The supply chain's a disaster area right now. I would edit that to read "a scary disaster area". We devoted most of this year to designing an entirely new p

> The supply chain's a disaster area right now. I would edit that to read "a scary disaster area". We devoted most of this year to designing an entirely new product line for a new startup I am launching. It got delayed due to the pandemic. We decided to restart it around March of this year. We have gone through many prototypes and are now ready to start manufacturing, with the aim of delivering products during Q1 (we have serious orders). Well, this week I am having meetings with component suppliers to figure out what we have to do in terms of design changes and ready-to-go variants in order to deal with supply chain issues. The variants have to be there in order to be able to deliver product if key components become unavailable. The approach is requiring us to design something like three versions of each product. Each of these has to go through full UL/TUV/CSA and other regulatory testing. That's why I say "disaster area" doesn't quite cover it. I have lived through massive manufacturing supply chain upsets in the past. This one is different in that it is far more widespread, with multiple product lines suffering shortages and delivery issues for different reasons. If this pandemic does not teach nations, governments and people why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains, I don't know what will.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
>If this pandemic does not teach nations, governments and people why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains, I don't know what will. I don't think a single billionaire or bureaucrat is gonna bat an eyelash. Inflation doesn't affect them. Deflation does. That's why they stripped every single mean from the lower classes being capable of doing so.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Not quite. Inflation makes the value of debts lessen. Most rich people are creditors, that's why the Fed is such an inflation hawk. However, the inflation in consumer products without wage increases just doubly screws the working class, though it could lead to widespread bankruptcy if it gets intense enough. That would affect rich people.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Rich people have most of their assets in equities, not loans or fixed-income securities. As a general asset class, business equity is usually a pretty good hedge against inflation.
    - omgwtfbyobbq 5y ago
      It can be so-so at times. IIRC, there was a 5-10 year period in I think the 70s/80s when the S&P 500 returned nothing. Course, it took off after that.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    Hoovervilles were not filled with rich people. In fact, in 2008, expensive cars barely saw a dent in sales cause the people that can afford them are heavily resistant to shocks of that caliber. Rich people are most definitely not creditors. Banks are. Rich people don't give out loans like banks. The rich don't get affected by poorer people who declare bankruptcy. The rich lose when poor people think money is greater than whatever BS commodity they're peddling that they can't recoup losses trying to sell it. That's why panics were more common back in the day. They're virtually a thing of the past nowt hat the Fed just prints money making everything think you gotta invest constantly or just lose money to inflation.
    - Brian_K_White 5y ago
      Is it that everyone thinks that, and it's not true, or is it true but doesn't have to be true?
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      Banks aren't institutions of the rich?? The rich will be perfectly insulated if the financial system crashes??
      - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
        Banks are institutions. Rich people are not banks and not creditors, the institution is.
MelonTree 5y ago
> If this pandemic does not teach nations, governments and people why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains, I don't know what will. I doubt it will. I order a lot of construction materials, so I've been exposed to most of the supply chain issues. Some of the worst and most unexpected delays have been from the local suppliers. Presumedly because they are also constrained on some parts, and they don't prioritize me simply because I'm local. So going forward, I certainly don't see why I would pay a premium for local suppliers..
- robomartin 5y ago
  It's a chain reaction. We don't make almost anything in the US any more. Which means everything in the supply chain has serious external dependencies. From screws and wires to electronic components, tools, machinery and almost every basic material used in industry. We have done an excellent job of destroying entire layers of our industries. A lot of what we are seeing is rooted in failed economic and foreign policies spanning at least five decades. To add to my prior statement: If this doesn't teach people that our politicians are incompetent and selfish, I am not sure what will. Note I do not make political party distinctions. We have allowed ambulance chasers run our country for decades. The realities of the next few decades are entirely on the voters who never woke up to understand that incompetent, selfish, power-hungry people never produce good outcomes. I can't think of many politicians I would hire to run a mid size cooking baking operation. That's how bad it is.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The pandemic has caused some short term disruptions but overall the US manufacturing sector is huge and growing. Revenue was $2.3T in 2019. We make a lot of stuff. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/manufacturing-output https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/manu...
    - robomartin 5y ago
      > We make a lot of stuff No, we don't. We assemble a lot of stuff and somehow manage to call it "US made". Let's not fool ourselves. Most "Made in USA" product is nearly 100% comprised of components and assemblies made in China (mostly) and other places. I know entire companies that operate this way. If you read through the ISIC divisions 15-37 categories it is very easy to see that there are entire categories of items could not be made even with 25% US-made content. https://unstats.un.org/unsd/publication/seriesm/seriesm_4rev3_1e.pdf https://unstats.un.org/unsd/publication/seriesm/seriesm_4rev... Start on page 44. Divisions, 17, 18, 19, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 and 36 are almost certainly either made outside the US or assembled in the US with nearly 100% non-US materials. Take Ikea as an example. Or, for that matter, almost any piece of furniture you can buy from Walmart or most furniture stores. The other classifications run a range between genuinely US-made, assembled in the US from foreign materials and 100% non-US. To be clear, I am not proposing that we should have a 100% inshored supply line. That cat is out of the bag. There are entire industries that will never come back. Ever. We could do better though. Yet this, at a minimum, requires unity and a solid commitment to actually focus on things that really matter. We have not demonstrated being able to do this for quite some time. A real analysis would require detailed data per ISIC division along with an analysis of the products and their actual US-made content. Having been in manufacturing for some four decades, I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that there are very few things we can truly call "Made in USA", even if the criteria is 75% domestically manufactured content. A few hours browsing the Alibaba website should give anyone a good sense of where we are. Pick an item. Go find a manufacturer on Alibaba. You are likely to find hundreds of them in China. Now go find manufacturers of the same item in the US or Europe. Good luck. If I send out for a quote for a part or assembly in China, I'll get 10 to 50 quotes overnight. If I do the same thing in the US I would consider myself lucky if I get one quote in two to four weeks. And when I do finally get it, it costs 2x to 5x more and takes five times longer to get it done. It's that bad. In a lot of cases the US companies are just middle men who get the products made in China. And then there are real questions about these numbers. Simple example: Are Apple iPhone sales counted as US manufacturing output?
viraptor 5y ago
> why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains Should it teach that to nations and governments? I get people who want to have access to things they can buy. But did the supply issues affect nations and governments in any way that's larger than annoyance/delay? This is a serious questions - did any country fail some large project with impact larger than the risk of "we're fine, as soon as the supply chain recovers we won't have to deal with this problem for many decades"?

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago

>If this pandemic does not teach nations, governments and people why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains, I don't know what will. I don't think a single billionaire or bureaucrat is gonna bat an eyelash. Inflation doesn't affect them. Deflation does. That's why they stripped every single mean from the lower classes being capable of doing so.

tehjoker 5y ago
Not quite. Inflation makes the value of debts lessen. Most rich people are creditors, that's why the Fed is such an inflation hawk. However, the inflation in consumer products without wage increases just doubly screws the working class, though it could lead to widespread bankruptcy if it gets intense enough. That would affect rich people.
- nradov 5y ago
  Rich people have most of their assets in equities, not loans or fixed-income securities. As a general asset class, business equity is usually a pretty good hedge against inflation.
  - omgwtfbyobbq 5y ago
    It can be so-so at times. IIRC, there was a 5-10 year period in I think the 70s/80s when the S&P 500 returned nothing. Course, it took off after that.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  Hoovervilles were not filled with rich people. In fact, in 2008, expensive cars barely saw a dent in sales cause the people that can afford them are heavily resistant to shocks of that caliber. Rich people are most definitely not creditors. Banks are. Rich people don't give out loans like banks. The rich don't get affected by poorer people who declare bankruptcy. The rich lose when poor people think money is greater than whatever BS commodity they're peddling that they can't recoup losses trying to sell it. That's why panics were more common back in the day. They're virtually a thing of the past nowt hat the Fed just prints money making everything think you gotta invest constantly or just lose money to inflation.
  - Brian_K_White 5y ago
    Is it that everyone thinks that, and it's not true, or is it true but doesn't have to be true?
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Banks aren't institutions of the rich?? The rich will be perfectly insulated if the financial system crashes??
    - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
      Banks are institutions. Rich people are not banks and not creditors, the institution is.

MelonTree 5y ago

> If this pandemic does not teach nations, governments and people why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains, I don't know what will. I doubt it will. I order a lot of construction materials, so I've been exposed to most of the supply chain issues. Some of the worst and most unexpected delays have been from the local suppliers. Presumedly because they are also constrained on some parts, and they don't prioritize me simply because I'm local. So going forward, I certainly don't see why I would pay a premium for local suppliers..

robomartin 5y ago
It's a chain reaction. We don't make almost anything in the US any more. Which means everything in the supply chain has serious external dependencies. From screws and wires to electronic components, tools, machinery and almost every basic material used in industry. We have done an excellent job of destroying entire layers of our industries. A lot of what we are seeing is rooted in failed economic and foreign policies spanning at least five decades. To add to my prior statement: If this doesn't teach people that our politicians are incompetent and selfish, I am not sure what will. Note I do not make political party distinctions. We have allowed ambulance chasers run our country for decades. The realities of the next few decades are entirely on the voters who never woke up to understand that incompetent, selfish, power-hungry people never produce good outcomes. I can't think of many politicians I would hire to run a mid size cooking baking operation. That's how bad it is.
- nradov 5y ago
  The pandemic has caused some short term disruptions but overall the US manufacturing sector is huge and growing. Revenue was $2.3T in 2019. We make a lot of stuff. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/manufacturing-output https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/manu...
  - robomartin 5y ago
    > We make a lot of stuff No, we don't. We assemble a lot of stuff and somehow manage to call it "US made". Let's not fool ourselves. Most "Made in USA" product is nearly 100% comprised of components and assemblies made in China (mostly) and other places. I know entire companies that operate this way. If you read through the ISIC divisions 15-37 categories it is very easy to see that there are entire categories of items could not be made even with 25% US-made content. https://unstats.un.org/unsd/publication/seriesm/seriesm_4rev3_1e.pdf https://unstats.un.org/unsd/publication/seriesm/seriesm_4rev... Start on page 44. Divisions, 17, 18, 19, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 and 36 are almost certainly either made outside the US or assembled in the US with nearly 100% non-US materials. Take Ikea as an example. Or, for that matter, almost any piece of furniture you can buy from Walmart or most furniture stores. The other classifications run a range between genuinely US-made, assembled in the US from foreign materials and 100% non-US. To be clear, I am not proposing that we should have a 100% inshored supply line. That cat is out of the bag. There are entire industries that will never come back. Ever. We could do better though. Yet this, at a minimum, requires unity and a solid commitment to actually focus on things that really matter. We have not demonstrated being able to do this for quite some time. A real analysis would require detailed data per ISIC division along with an analysis of the products and their actual US-made content. Having been in manufacturing for some four decades, I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that there are very few things we can truly call "Made in USA", even if the criteria is 75% domestically manufactured content. A few hours browsing the Alibaba website should give anyone a good sense of where we are. Pick an item. Go find a manufacturer on Alibaba. You are likely to find hundreds of them in China. Now go find manufacturers of the same item in the US or Europe. Good luck. If I send out for a quote for a part or assembly in China, I'll get 10 to 50 quotes overnight. If I do the same thing in the US I would consider myself lucky if I get one quote in two to four weeks. And when I do finally get it, it costs 2x to 5x more and takes five times longer to get it done. It's that bad. In a lot of cases the US companies are just middle men who get the products made in China. And then there are real questions about these numbers. Simple example: Are Apple iPhone sales counted as US manufacturing output?

viraptor 5y ago

> why it is so important to have short local and capable supply chains Should it teach that to nations and governments? I get people who want to have access to things they can buy. But did the supply issues affect nations and governments in any way that's larger than annoyance/delay? This is a serious questions - did any country fail some large project with impact larger than the risk of "we're fine, as soon as the supply chain recovers we won't have to deal with this problem for many decades"?