8 ms·

"They paid me $400k a year whereas the median income in the US was like $30k a year" would be enough for a lot of people to forgive you for the egregious crime

"They paid me $400k a year whereas the median income in the US was like $30k a year" would be enough for a lot of people to forgive you for the egregious crime of working for Facebook.

cronix 5y ago
Yeah, no one ever looks down at people, or companies, that put their own personal interests (money) above that of society.
- smabie 5y ago
  I mean people might do look down on it, but they're hypocritics: pretty much everyone puts their own interests ahead of other people/society.
  - bigfudge 5y ago
    I just don't think that's true. Some people scrupulously pay taxes, but others don't and push the line as hard as possible. There's real variation in people's willingness to 'defect' from the public good.
  - Frondo 5y ago
    I don't mean this to be snarky, but this sounds like someone who has no family, no kids, never been in a serious relationship. Once you're committed to one or more other people, you're pretty much putting their interests ahead of yours most of the day. If my friends who are parents are to be trusted, their kids are their priority in every substantial decision they make. Also, it's surprisingly cynical to say that people don't put their interests above society -- most of the people I know have taken on work and hobbies that don't maximize their personal gain, because they'd rather improve society somewhat.
gherkinnn 5y ago
"They paid me $400k a year when similar companies for similar positions paid me $320k" is a very different story.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  people who believe drugs should be legal will work as guards at prisons locking up non-violent drug offenders for a lot less money. As a misanthrope I think you expect too much of your fellow humans if you expect a good grasp of ethics.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    Software devs, on average, have many more choices for where to work than prison guards do.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    Those guards can have their cake and eat it too: help smuggle drugs into the prison, charge a premium handling fee.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  $80k a year is still a big raise even from $320k. But the bigger issue is that in most cases it wouldn't be easy to establish high confidence that the company offering the $320k salary is significantly less bad for the world than Facebook is (for whatever one's own definitions may be for "bad").
- gmadsen 5y ago
  the vast majority of people are not knowledgeable about where a facebook employee could or couldn't work and for how much. The only people that will judge are other swe
- door103 5y ago
  I’d be interested in what tech companies pay $320k and aren’t ethically dubious
  - gpm 5y ago
    Ethically I felt pretty good working at Rubrik (data backup company), as my first job out of university my total comp was >50% of that, I'm sure the senior people (who would be making $400k at facebook) are making that much.
whymauri 5y ago
Until you tell them that there's other companies willing to match or nearly match that compensation for seniors... https://www.levels.fyi/ https://www.levels.fyi/
tharne 5y ago
30k is not the median income in the U.S. and there are plenty of ways to make a decent living without working for FaceBook. You can make a very nice living as a developer working for non-tech companies. Or, if you prefer not working in front of a computer, you can make quite a bit driving a forklift or working as a plumber.
- robocat 5y ago
  “The U.S. Census Bureau lists the annual real median personal income at $35,977 in 2019” Calling it $30k is wrong, but not very wrong. Also note: “The U.S. Census Bureau also reports the median income for each family. In 2019, it was $86,011.” (Note I didn’t double check numbers above, they were just the first I found from Google results).
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    $35k includes children, retirees and other people who don't work for whatever reason.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      Median full-time worker weekly pay projected on an annual (52 week) basis for Q3 2021 is $52,156 (52 × $1,003).
    - robocat 5y ago
      Are you sure children are included? “The Census calculates per capita income by taking the total income for the previous year for everyone 15 years and older.” - https://www.thebalance.com/income-per-capita-calculation-and-u-s-statistics-3305852 https://www.thebalance.com/income-per-capita-calculation-and... The census specifically doesn’t ask for income for children below 15, so perhaps that is the meaning of the sentence above, and per capita calculation does include kids as $0 income for calculating median - although that would be weird IMHO. Unclear, and I got bored looking for exact details, so gave up quickly!
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
celim307 5y ago
If you make 400k at fb you can make 300-350k at other tech giants, who are not perfect but not as comically evil as fb
- idrios 5y ago
  The criticisms towards FB are definitely warranted, but I'd argue that other tech giants are on the same level. Facebook was just the only one that openly picked a fight with the entirety of traditional media who have massive resources and experience in manipulating public opinion, so bad or gray area things that Facebook does get amplified more than they would were it another company.
  - laserlight 5y ago
    Other tech giants are definitely not on the same level. Facebook is the only one which directly profits from manipulating people.
    - idrios 5y ago
      It's subjective. I don't love Facebook but I appreciate that it's easy* to live without it. Can't say the same for Google's ecosystem when my gmail is increasingly tied to my identity. Can't say the same for Amazon when they have so much monopoly over supply chain that some things you literally can't obtain if you don't purchase through them. There's also Disney silently monopolizing creativity. Facebook manipulates people to keep them on their site to increase data collection and drive up ad revenue. Google put adsense everywhere on the internet, so they don't need to do anything manipulative to keep you on Google because they earn ad revenue and get your data wherever you go**. Everyone I know who works at one of these companies is a great, smart, kind, talented person -- including those at Facebook. We need better consumer protections and to break up their monopolies. * Hard to escape Facebook's online tracking but adding this to your host file should do it https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists/blob/master/corporations/facebook/all https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists/blob/master/corporatio... ** Sorry for this hyperbole, it's only sites using adsense that are guilty and adblockers work wonders.

"They paid me $400k a year whereas the median income in the US was like $30k a year" would be enough for a lot of people to forgive you for the egregious crime of working for Facebook.

cronix 5y ago

Yeah, no one ever looks down at people, or companies, that put their own personal interests (money) above that of society.

smabie 5y ago
I mean people might do look down on it, but they're hypocritics: pretty much everyone puts their own interests ahead of other people/society.
- bigfudge 5y ago
  I just don't think that's true. Some people scrupulously pay taxes, but others don't and push the line as hard as possible. There's real variation in people's willingness to 'defect' from the public good.
- Frondo 5y ago
  I don't mean this to be snarky, but this sounds like someone who has no family, no kids, never been in a serious relationship. Once you're committed to one or more other people, you're pretty much putting their interests ahead of yours most of the day. If my friends who are parents are to be trusted, their kids are their priority in every substantial decision they make. Also, it's surprisingly cynical to say that people don't put their interests above society -- most of the people I know have taken on work and hobbies that don't maximize their personal gain, because they'd rather improve society somewhat.

gherkinnn 5y ago

"They paid me $400k a year when similar companies for similar positions paid me $320k" is a very different story.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
people who believe drugs should be legal will work as guards at prisons locking up non-violent drug offenders for a lot less money. As a misanthrope I think you expect too much of your fellow humans if you expect a good grasp of ethics.
- kadoban 5y ago
  Software devs, on average, have many more choices for where to work than prison guards do.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Those guards can have their cake and eat it too: help smuggle drugs into the prison, charge a premium handling fee.
tshaddox 5y ago
$80k a year is still a big raise even from $320k. But the bigger issue is that in most cases it wouldn't be easy to establish high confidence that the company offering the $320k salary is significantly less bad for the world than Facebook is (for whatever one's own definitions may be for "bad").
gmadsen 5y ago
the vast majority of people are not knowledgeable about where a facebook employee could or couldn't work and for how much. The only people that will judge are other swe
door103 5y ago
I’d be interested in what tech companies pay $320k and aren’t ethically dubious
- gpm 5y ago
  Ethically I felt pretty good working at Rubrik (data backup company), as my first job out of university my total comp was >50% of that, I'm sure the senior people (who would be making $400k at facebook) are making that much.

whymauri 5y ago

Until you tell them that there's other companies willing to match or nearly match that compensation for seniors... https://www.levels.fyi/ https://www.levels.fyi/

tharne 5y ago

30k is not the median income in the U.S. and there are plenty of ways to make a decent living without working for FaceBook. You can make a very nice living as a developer working for non-tech companies. Or, if you prefer not working in front of a computer, you can make quite a bit driving a forklift or working as a plumber.

robocat 5y ago
“The U.S. Census Bureau lists the annual real median personal income at $35,977 in 2019” Calling it $30k is wrong, but not very wrong. Also note: “The U.S. Census Bureau also reports the median income for each family. In 2019, it was $86,011.” (Note I didn’t double check numbers above, they were just the first I found from Google results).
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  $35k includes children, retirees and other people who don't work for whatever reason.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    Median full-time worker weekly pay projected on an annual (52 week) basis for Q3 2021 is $52,156 (52 × $1,003).
  - robocat 5y ago
    Are you sure children are included? “The Census calculates per capita income by taking the total income for the previous year for everyone 15 years and older.” - https://www.thebalance.com/income-per-capita-calculation-and-u-s-statistics-3305852 https://www.thebalance.com/income-per-capita-calculation-and... The census specifically doesn’t ask for income for children below 15, so perhaps that is the meaning of the sentence above, and per capita calculation does include kids as $0 income for calculating median - although that would be weird IMHO. Unclear, and I got bored looking for exact details, so gave up quickly!
- dragonwriter 5y ago

celim307 5y ago

If you make 400k at fb you can make 300-350k at other tech giants, who are not perfect but not as comically evil as fb

idrios 5y ago
The criticisms towards FB are definitely warranted, but I'd argue that other tech giants are on the same level. Facebook was just the only one that openly picked a fight with the entirety of traditional media who have massive resources and experience in manipulating public opinion, so bad or gray area things that Facebook does get amplified more than they would were it another company.
- laserlight 5y ago
  Other tech giants are definitely not on the same level. Facebook is the only one which directly profits from manipulating people.
  - idrios 5y ago
    It's subjective. I don't love Facebook but I appreciate that it's easy* to live without it. Can't say the same for Google's ecosystem when my gmail is increasingly tied to my identity. Can't say the same for Amazon when they have so much monopoly over supply chain that some things you literally can't obtain if you don't purchase through them. There's also Disney silently monopolizing creativity. Facebook manipulates people to keep them on their site to increase data collection and drive up ad revenue. Google put adsense everywhere on the internet, so they don't need to do anything manipulative to keep you on Google because they earn ad revenue and get your data wherever you go**. Everyone I know who works at one of these companies is a great, smart, kind, talented person -- including those at Facebook. We need better consumer protections and to break up their monopolies. * Hard to escape Facebook's online tracking but adding this to your host file should do it https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists/blob/master/corporations/facebook/all https://github.com/jmdugan/blocklists/blob/master/corporatio... ** Sorry for this hyperbole, it's only sites using adsense that are guilty and adblockers work wonders.