5 ms·

Here waiting for the usual fella to reply to you with the "but NASDAQ is also a lottery!!" argument. I agree with you, anyone who chooses to "invest" in crypto

Here waiting for the usual fella to reply to you with the "but NASDAQ is also a lottery!!" argument. I agree with you, anyone who chooses to "invest" in crypto deserves to lose everything. Especially if you're putting money into a literal meme...

AtlasBarfed 5y ago
And at least Dogecoin is a sarcastic meme... which makes it more legitimate than Ether? Maybe?
- uuddlrlr 5y ago
  Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  Ether is not a meme.. It pioneered a Turing Complete execution environment on a distributed public blockchain, which massively expanded the utility of the blockchain.
  - hhh 5y ago
    > which massively expanded the utility of the blockchain. I have little to no crypto experience or knowledge. In what way does this expand the utility of the chain, and what problems does this allow to be solved? What are the pros/cons of using this over something else?
    - jrm4 5y ago
      A way to look at it: "Blockchains" are just large distributed immutable databases, Bitcoin being the first working proof of concept to be a "public ledger," -- but pretty much only for "money." Ethereum (really, the ERC-20 ethereum blockchain) is designed to not just be a "money" database, but a "general purpose" database. So you could theoretically build anything on it. One major use is "other coins," but you can do e.g. lotteries, NFTs, other forms of finance, game tokens -- anything where a publicly viewable/auditable database may be of some use. And also, like other programming things, lots of footguns. :)
    - sjtindell 5y ago
      Rather than just storing a ledger of transactions in a decentralized manner (already a huge innovation), Ethereum allowed the execution of arbitrary code by the distributed system. Smart contracts can be thought of for the uninitiated like event-based lambdas that are immutable, publicly visible, and you don’t have to pay for the compute or storage (the user does via fees per usage). One cool use case for this is a decentralized exchange - an exchange wherein no centralized party controls the prices or flows. Another is flash loans.
  - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
    'massively expanded the scope for scams, fraud and other tokenized nonsense'. :-) Say what you like about dogecoin and the early code-fork clones of early coins (BTC, LTC), at least they required some technical ability and maintenance of their respective blockchains (mining, nodes, etc). Ethereum enables ponzis on the scale never thought possible. We are in scam times now where any idiot can clone an ERC20 contract and scam a million people (SHIB token has ~888k holders right now). It is still and will forever remain useless.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      There is far more than speculative memecoins on Ethereum. There are prediction markets, m-of-n digital wallets used by globe-spanning internet communities to manage their treasuries, decentralized social networks, hyper-scalable SNARK/STARK based validation of layer 2 state transitions, and decentralized markets for: permissionless/borderless trading and borrowing/lending of digital assets, buying and selling computing power, buying and selling bandwidth, hiring freelancers, and issuing and trading digital game assets. Beyond that, DeFi opens up new possibilities like tapping the liquidity in your digital art via a self executing loan that uses the art as the collateral. The extreme reliability of the Ethereum protocol allows massive amounts of value belonging to a huge set of mutually distrusting parties to be committed to self-executing programmatic contracts that, barring the managable risk of software design error, are guaranteed to execute as intended. This provides enormous value by reducing the overhead added by non-reliability of and bureaucratic limitations on contracts.
    - rvz 5y ago
      > Ethereum enables ponzis on the scale never thought possible. 100% Correct. There are more 'ERC 20 tokens' than 'coins' like BTC or LTC these days. Now any Jim, Jane and Joe can mint their own tokens using cointool [0]. Seems like ETH is the main facilitator of these scams. First it started with ICOs (Introduced by Ethereum), then it was the ERC-20 tokens (which influenced everyone else to do), then the first DAO which failed after a hack and created a Ethereum hard fork and now they have done NFTs. Ethereum has scaled up creating new classes of scams and ponzis whilst generating massive fees for every. single. operation. [0] https://cointool.app/dashboard https://cointool.app/dashboard
- JCharante 5y ago
  Dogecoin had use when you could tip people on Reddit for good comments. It would had more use for me if I hadn't lost track of my wallet file after high school.
CryptoPunk 5y ago
Crypto in general is extremely speculative, but no one knows if it will prove to be a success or failure, so claiming any one investing in any crypto "deserves to lose everything" is unjustified by the facts.
- pcwalton 5y ago
  Nobody knows for certain whether cryptocurrency will succeed in the same sense that nobody knows for certain whether the US government will spontaneously collapse at 11:00 AM tomorrow, but people can make educated guesses and invest accordingly. Events like the one described in the article are very good data points.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    It isn't even in the same universe of ballparks as that. The unknowns surrounding crypto, including the number of potential scenarios that a reasonable person would judge to be plausible, and that would lead to crypto succeeding, are vastly larger than the number of plausible scenarios that would lead to the hypothetical outcome you compare it to.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago

And at least Dogecoin is a sarcastic meme... which makes it more legitimate than Ether? Maybe?

uuddlrlr 5y ago
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
CryptoPunk 5y ago
Ether is not a meme.. It pioneered a Turing Complete execution environment on a distributed public blockchain, which massively expanded the utility of the blockchain.
- hhh 5y ago
  > which massively expanded the utility of the blockchain. I have little to no crypto experience or knowledge. In what way does this expand the utility of the chain, and what problems does this allow to be solved? What are the pros/cons of using this over something else?
  - jrm4 5y ago
    A way to look at it: "Blockchains" are just large distributed immutable databases, Bitcoin being the first working proof of concept to be a "public ledger," -- but pretty much only for "money." Ethereum (really, the ERC-20 ethereum blockchain) is designed to not just be a "money" database, but a "general purpose" database. So you could theoretically build anything on it. One major use is "other coins," but you can do e.g. lotteries, NFTs, other forms of finance, game tokens -- anything where a publicly viewable/auditable database may be of some use. And also, like other programming things, lots of footguns. :)
  - sjtindell 5y ago
    Rather than just storing a ledger of transactions in a decentralized manner (already a huge innovation), Ethereum allowed the execution of arbitrary code by the distributed system. Smart contracts can be thought of for the uninitiated like event-based lambdas that are immutable, publicly visible, and you don’t have to pay for the compute or storage (the user does via fees per usage). One cool use case for this is a decentralized exchange - an exchange wherein no centralized party controls the prices or flows. Another is flash loans.
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
  'massively expanded the scope for scams, fraud and other tokenized nonsense'. :-) Say what you like about dogecoin and the early code-fork clones of early coins (BTC, LTC), at least they required some technical ability and maintenance of their respective blockchains (mining, nodes, etc). Ethereum enables ponzis on the scale never thought possible. We are in scam times now where any idiot can clone an ERC20 contract and scam a million people (SHIB token has ~888k holders right now). It is still and will forever remain useless.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    There is far more than speculative memecoins on Ethereum. There are prediction markets, m-of-n digital wallets used by globe-spanning internet communities to manage their treasuries, decentralized social networks, hyper-scalable SNARK/STARK based validation of layer 2 state transitions, and decentralized markets for: permissionless/borderless trading and borrowing/lending of digital assets, buying and selling computing power, buying and selling bandwidth, hiring freelancers, and issuing and trading digital game assets. Beyond that, DeFi opens up new possibilities like tapping the liquidity in your digital art via a self executing loan that uses the art as the collateral. The extreme reliability of the Ethereum protocol allows massive amounts of value belonging to a huge set of mutually distrusting parties to be committed to self-executing programmatic contracts that, barring the managable risk of software design error, are guaranteed to execute as intended. This provides enormous value by reducing the overhead added by non-reliability of and bureaucratic limitations on contracts.
  - rvz 5y ago
    > Ethereum enables ponzis on the scale never thought possible. 100% Correct. There are more 'ERC 20 tokens' than 'coins' like BTC or LTC these days. Now any Jim, Jane and Joe can mint their own tokens using cointool [0]. Seems like ETH is the main facilitator of these scams. First it started with ICOs (Introduced by Ethereum), then it was the ERC-20 tokens (which influenced everyone else to do), then the first DAO which failed after a hack and created a Ethereum hard fork and now they have done NFTs. Ethereum has scaled up creating new classes of scams and ponzis whilst generating massive fees for every. single. operation. [0] https://cointool.app/dashboard https://cointool.app/dashboard
JCharante 5y ago
Dogecoin had use when you could tip people on Reddit for good comments. It would had more use for me if I hadn't lost track of my wallet file after high school.

CryptoPunk 5y ago

Crypto in general is extremely speculative, but no one knows if it will prove to be a success or failure, so claiming any one investing in any crypto "deserves to lose everything" is unjustified by the facts.

pcwalton 5y ago
Nobody knows for certain whether cryptocurrency will succeed in the same sense that nobody knows for certain whether the US government will spontaneously collapse at 11:00 AM tomorrow, but people can make educated guesses and invest accordingly. Events like the one described in the article are very good data points.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  It isn't even in the same universe of ballparks as that. The unknowns surrounding crypto, including the number of potential scenarios that a reasonable person would judge to be plausible, and that would lead to crypto succeeding, are vastly larger than the number of plausible scenarios that would lead to the hypothetical outcome you compare it to.