6 ms·

The UK is quickly becoming an authoritarian country. RIP freedom and democracy.

ljm 5y ago
The UK has arguably had an authoritarian bias for a long time, under the guise of being paternalistic. I wouldn't say it's always a bad thing, as many times this does work in the society's favour (e.g. consumer protection laws, various other regulations), and the loosening of the restriction works against it (e.g. the course of events that led to the Grenfell Tower fire). Of course, you also get stuff like this, the various porn bills that surface every few years, and the Snooper's Charter. This is the real Nanny State stuff. The UK simply has a different perspective on how government should work. Arguably because it's had a thousand years to figure it out.
- mathverse 5y ago
  It is not only UK. It is NZ and Australia as well. It is really weird to watch these countries to mimic CCP controlled China without all the benefits that CCP managed to pull off.
  - cal5k 5y ago
    Canada as well. All Commonwealth countries seem to be reading from an identical script at this point.
    - mathverse 5y ago
      I did not know thar about Canada. Thought it is a bit on the rational side of things compared to the other 3. Sad to hear that.
    - _0ffh 5y ago
      I'd go even further and say most western countries, because I think the US and EU are headed in a similar direction. My guess is that they see trouble ahead and want to get a firmer grip on power, so they're trying to get the kid gloves off as stealthily as possible. If they could, they'd go full CCP before you can say "communo-fascism", but they can't, because then they'd have to deal with too much push back at once.
    - seoulmetro 5y ago
      The script is definitely coming from America. And the first scene is trial of virtual control.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    >It is really weird to watch these countries to mimic CCP controlled China without all the benefits that CCP managed to pull off. I can criticise my government which citizens in China are prevented from doing. This puts us a long way apart.
  - seoulmetro 5y ago
    You don't actually understand China or Australia if you think they are similar. They are not. They have similar puppets they put on their hands to make the general population think a certain way, they may follow the same single act, but they're not similar.
    - mathverse 5y ago
      You just described one trait they have in common in terms of similarity. Of course they are different but have certain similarities. The EU? Not so much.
      - seoulmetro 5y ago
        Everyone has a couple traits in common. For example the EU regulate several very minute things that anyone in the EU must follow. Like how the Chinese regulate the sale (or ban of) certain luxuries.
Mikeb85 5y ago
The UK is a monarchy. Everyone has always simply been subjects of the King/Queen. Their 'freedom and democracy' has always been a façade, used by the monarchs to convince them they have some rights.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  The monarch has had practically zero power for a decade and before that only had slightly more.
breakfastduck 5y ago
The worst bit is, and I say this as someone who is and always has been very left wing, that the current left wing culture are actually making this possible. They've winged and winged about anyone tweeting anything controversial about a perceived 'vulnerable minority' and this has always been the end game. They want people to be punished for causing offense. I can't believe these morons go around joining groups like antifa, protesting against authoritarianism and yet spend half their energy campaigning for laws that would be an authoritarian governments wet dream.
- arp242 5y ago
  The amount of in-fighting over a small disagreement is astounding, as is the conflation between "disagreement" and "causing harm". If you disagree on some intellectual framework regarding gender identity – to name something controversial – then this absolutely does not equal "discrimination". It's a massive distraction over the actual issues that matter, never mind turning people off from the left in general. It's kind of amazing because people in the West live in the most free and non-discriminatory society in all of recorded history. Yes, there are still problems and it's not perfect and these problems require adressing, but try being gay 50 years ago, or in most non-Western countries. We really do have it quite good. There is kind of a curious parallel with Trump's "Make America Great Again!"-rhetoric where he presents the US as a kind of dystopian hellscape, which is not that dissimilar to how it's presented among some of these people. My take-away from this is that there actually are some deep-rooted problems in the way we organize our society, and that the dissatisfaction, frustration, and anger over this manifests itself in different ways. Brexit is another interesting example, because it always seemed to me not so much about the EU, but more a general dissatisfaction about the state of things.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
This is one of the main reasons why my job search radius is "Europe except UK".
kfprt 5y ago
The UK tolerated child rape gangs for decades, arguably still do. Yet they want to prosecute hurt feelings. Joke of a country. edit for the flagger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring It goes on like this in dozens more instances.
- dang 5y ago
  We've banned this account for posting unsubstantive comments and using HN primarily for political/ideological/nationalistic battle. We ban accounts that do those things (regardless of what they're battling for) because they destroy HN for its intended purpose. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. p.s. Creating accounts to break the site guidelines will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.
  - kfprt 5y ago
    This is hardly unsubstantiated as it is a widespread acknowledged problem. [1] It should also be noted that this is not the first time I criticized the UK's 'unique' take on justice. The reception then was quite different however. Is moderation at the whim of the mob? Perhaps 'joke of a country is a bit harsh' but I can't think of a better description of such lopsided priorities. [1] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/839509/Britain-towns-cities-asian-grooming-gangs-Newcastle-Rochdale-Rotherham https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/839509/Britain-towns-citie...
    - dang 5y ago
raxxorrax 5y ago
Problem is there is almost no opposition to that. In almost every country we see liberal parties failing to defend liberties. On the contrary, they quickly side with pearl clutchers that have no problem with broad user surveillance and in some cases even champion laws that selectively punish one or two unsavory people in hope it might be seen as a precedent. Corporations primarily think of their advertisers that dislike any controversy. I think ultimately we need different platforms for kids and adults. If you have a problem with comments that undeniably sometimes cross several lines, you might need to visit the former. That said, experience says that some people aren't content if there is disapproved content anywhere, but those need to be ignored.

ljm 5y ago

The UK has arguably had an authoritarian bias for a long time, under the guise of being paternalistic. I wouldn't say it's always a bad thing, as many times this does work in the society's favour (e.g. consumer protection laws, various other regulations), and the loosening of the restriction works against it (e.g. the course of events that led to the Grenfell Tower fire). Of course, you also get stuff like this, the various porn bills that surface every few years, and the Snooper's Charter. This is the real Nanny State stuff. The UK simply has a different perspective on how government should work. Arguably because it's had a thousand years to figure it out.

mathverse 5y ago
It is not only UK. It is NZ and Australia as well. It is really weird to watch these countries to mimic CCP controlled China without all the benefits that CCP managed to pull off.
- cal5k 5y ago
  Canada as well. All Commonwealth countries seem to be reading from an identical script at this point.
  - mathverse 5y ago
    I did not know thar about Canada. Thought it is a bit on the rational side of things compared to the other 3. Sad to hear that.
  - _0ffh 5y ago
    I'd go even further and say most western countries, because I think the US and EU are headed in a similar direction. My guess is that they see trouble ahead and want to get a firmer grip on power, so they're trying to get the kid gloves off as stealthily as possible. If they could, they'd go full CCP before you can say "communo-fascism", but they can't, because then they'd have to deal with too much push back at once.
  - seoulmetro 5y ago
    The script is definitely coming from America. And the first scene is trial of virtual control.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >It is really weird to watch these countries to mimic CCP controlled China without all the benefits that CCP managed to pull off. I can criticise my government which citizens in China are prevented from doing. This puts us a long way apart.
- seoulmetro 5y ago
  You don't actually understand China or Australia if you think they are similar. They are not. They have similar puppets they put on their hands to make the general population think a certain way, they may follow the same single act, but they're not similar.
  - mathverse 5y ago
    You just described one trait they have in common in terms of similarity. Of course they are different but have certain similarities. The EU? Not so much.
    - seoulmetro 5y ago
      Everyone has a couple traits in common. For example the EU regulate several very minute things that anyone in the EU must follow. Like how the Chinese regulate the sale (or ban of) certain luxuries.

Mikeb85 5y ago

The UK is a monarchy. Everyone has always simply been subjects of the King/Queen. Their 'freedom and democracy' has always been a façade, used by the monarchs to convince them they have some rights.

_-david-_ 5y ago
The monarch has had practically zero power for a decade and before that only had slightly more.

breakfastduck 5y ago

The worst bit is, and I say this as someone who is and always has been very left wing, that the current left wing culture are actually making this possible. They've winged and winged about anyone tweeting anything controversial about a perceived 'vulnerable minority' and this has always been the end game. They want people to be punished for causing offense. I can't believe these morons go around joining groups like antifa, protesting against authoritarianism and yet spend half their energy campaigning for laws that would be an authoritarian governments wet dream.

arp242 5y ago
The amount of in-fighting over a small disagreement is astounding, as is the conflation between "disagreement" and "causing harm". If you disagree on some intellectual framework regarding gender identity – to name something controversial – then this absolutely does not equal "discrimination". It's a massive distraction over the actual issues that matter, never mind turning people off from the left in general. It's kind of amazing because people in the West live in the most free and non-discriminatory society in all of recorded history. Yes, there are still problems and it's not perfect and these problems require adressing, but try being gay 50 years ago, or in most non-Western countries. We really do have it quite good. There is kind of a curious parallel with Trump's "Make America Great Again!"-rhetoric where he presents the US as a kind of dystopian hellscape, which is not that dissimilar to how it's presented among some of these people. My take-away from this is that there actually are some deep-rooted problems in the way we organize our society, and that the dissatisfaction, frustration, and anger over this manifests itself in different ways. Brexit is another interesting example, because it always seemed to me not so much about the EU, but more a general dissatisfaction about the state of things.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

This is one of the main reasons why my job search radius is "Europe except UK".

kfprt 5y ago

The UK tolerated child rape gangs for decades, arguably still do. Yet they want to prosecute hurt feelings. Joke of a country. edit for the flagger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huddersfield_grooming_gang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_child_sexual_exploitat... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_child_sex_abuse_ring It goes on like this in dozens more instances.

dang 5y ago
We've banned this account for posting unsubstantive comments and using HN primarily for political/ideological/nationalistic battle. We ban accounts that do those things (regardless of what they're battling for) because they destroy HN for its intended purpose. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. p.s. Creating accounts to break the site guidelines will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.
- kfprt 5y ago
  This is hardly unsubstantiated as it is a widespread acknowledged problem. [1] It should also be noted that this is not the first time I criticized the UK's 'unique' take on justice. The reception then was quite different however. Is moderation at the whim of the mob? Perhaps 'joke of a country is a bit harsh' but I can't think of a better description of such lopsided priorities. [1] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/839509/Britain-towns-cities-asian-grooming-gangs-Newcastle-Rochdale-Rotherham https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/839509/Britain-towns-citie...
  - dang 5y ago

raxxorrax 5y ago

Problem is there is almost no opposition to that. In almost every country we see liberal parties failing to defend liberties. On the contrary, they quickly side with pearl clutchers that have no problem with broad user surveillance and in some cases even champion laws that selectively punish one or two unsavory people in hope it might be seen as a precedent. Corporations primarily think of their advertisers that dislike any controversy. I think ultimately we need different platforms for kids and adults. If you have a problem with comments that undeniably sometimes cross several lines, you might need to visit the former. That said, experience says that some people aren't content if there is disapproved content anywhere, but those need to be ignored.