4 ms·

I like the Zoho strategy of just hiring high school kids and training them - https://m.timesofindia.com/india/this-man-is-also-driving-one-of-indias-most-profit

by eussg 5y ago

I like the Zoho strategy of just hiring high school kids and training them - https://m.timesofindia.com/india/this-man-is-also-driving-one-of-indias-most-profitable-unicorns/articleshow/85171268.cms https://m.timesofindia.com/india/this-man-is-also-driving-on...

nudpiedo 5y ago
It’s interesting, many western corporations used to do that, but after decades it eventually was delayed to training during summer breaks or jobs right after university as it is often assumed that even after university they lack any real world knowledge. Cheaper and often a loyal employee, still works but not as mainstream as it used to be. Dojo’s approach seem to be one step beyond, but it requires even longer commitment to the employee and an asymmetrical market opportunity and economic chance. Definitely will help people and become a win win.
bsenftner 5y ago
I've worked at visual effects studios working on feature films, and in that industry (where proprietary workflows rule) there is always an education department. Even if one used to work there, being gone for a year is enough to make one useless as the workflows change radically, VFX technologies move fast. When I spent time consulting at web shops, I was dismayed at the undocumented and loose workflows, plus no process documentation in sight. I get the sense the web is the worse of modern tech exploitation work practices. Hell, working in video games looks better.
- gruez 5y ago
  >I get the sense the web is the worse of modern tech exploitation work practices. Web work is exploitative because... the workflow is undocumented? If it pays well, who cares?
  - bsenftner 5y ago
    Undocumented is much worse than your comment seems to realize. Wait until you are in a situation when the only people that know a mission critical procedure quit or die. This can cause entire large companies to crumble, as well as the reason so much confusion exists in development, and is also a reason the industry relies on leet code testing - if you don't know something before being hired, nobody can explain it there because they are all fixing fires or on not-really-understanding auto-pilot.
markus_zhang 5y ago
It's actually a good practice. I think the intelligence community sort of do this too. On the other hand I think a more practical equivalent is to hire internal candidates who show some interests but didn't get the chance to work on real problems and train them.
littlecranky67 5y ago
I've worked with several companies that tried that, in the end once the juniors became experienced and skilled enough, they took offers from other companies with a much higher salary. The issue is that training/skilling juniors or fresh university graduates costs you money and slows you down (as you need to assign senior engineers/mentors to assist them). It is not unlikely that a newly joined junior employees only costs you money and decreases throughput/value for your company in the first 6-12 months, but you still pay them a (decent) salary. So once you got them skilled, you as a company would probably need to raise the salary to market/senior level to keep them - given the mass amount of recruiter approaches we in IT get. In that case, you could just start off hiring seniors only in the first place. This is an issue I see everywhere, nobody wants to hire freshly graduated and everybody is only shopping around for seniors.
- Clubber 5y ago
  >took offers from other companies with a much higher salary. Seems like paying at least market rates once they are trained up would solve that problem. Once someone develops a skill, a company can't expect to keep them at intern or junior salary levels.
  - littlecranky67 5y ago
    That was exactly my point. But why hire & train a junior dev when there is no company loyalty and the money spent on training is basically lost. Instead management focus on directly hiring seniors. Of course that doesn't work as a whole, because if no one hires juniors there will be a point where there will be no seniors anymore. I also feel little to no pity when those companies complain, that they can't find seniors.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago
  New unethical life hack: make up a failed startup to pad out your résumé to get hired as a senior right out of college.

by eussg 5y ago

nudpiedo 5y ago

It’s interesting, many western corporations used to do that, but after decades it eventually was delayed to training during summer breaks or jobs right after university as it is often assumed that even after university they lack any real world knowledge. Cheaper and often a loyal employee, still works but not as mainstream as it used to be. Dojo’s approach seem to be one step beyond, but it requires even longer commitment to the employee and an asymmetrical market opportunity and economic chance. Definitely will help people and become a win win.

bsenftner 5y ago

I've worked at visual effects studios working on feature films, and in that industry (where proprietary workflows rule) there is always an education department. Even if one used to work there, being gone for a year is enough to make one useless as the workflows change radically, VFX technologies move fast. When I spent time consulting at web shops, I was dismayed at the undocumented and loose workflows, plus no process documentation in sight. I get the sense the web is the worse of modern tech exploitation work practices. Hell, working in video games looks better.

gruez 5y ago
>I get the sense the web is the worse of modern tech exploitation work practices. Web work is exploitative because... the workflow is undocumented? If it pays well, who cares?
- bsenftner 5y ago
  Undocumented is much worse than your comment seems to realize. Wait until you are in a situation when the only people that know a mission critical procedure quit or die. This can cause entire large companies to crumble, as well as the reason so much confusion exists in development, and is also a reason the industry relies on leet code testing - if you don't know something before being hired, nobody can explain it there because they are all fixing fires or on not-really-understanding auto-pilot.

markus_zhang 5y ago

It's actually a good practice. I think the intelligence community sort of do this too. On the other hand I think a more practical equivalent is to hire internal candidates who show some interests but didn't get the chance to work on real problems and train them.

littlecranky67 5y ago

I've worked with several companies that tried that, in the end once the juniors became experienced and skilled enough, they took offers from other companies with a much higher salary. The issue is that training/skilling juniors or fresh university graduates costs you money and slows you down (as you need to assign senior engineers/mentors to assist them). It is not unlikely that a newly joined junior employees only costs you money and decreases throughput/value for your company in the first 6-12 months, but you still pay them a (decent) salary. So once you got them skilled, you as a company would probably need to raise the salary to market/senior level to keep them - given the mass amount of recruiter approaches we in IT get. In that case, you could just start off hiring seniors only in the first place. This is an issue I see everywhere, nobody wants to hire freshly graduated and everybody is only shopping around for seniors.

Clubber 5y ago
>took offers from other companies with a much higher salary. Seems like paying at least market rates once they are trained up would solve that problem. Once someone develops a skill, a company can't expect to keep them at intern or junior salary levels.
- littlecranky67 5y ago
  That was exactly my point. But why hire & train a junior dev when there is no company loyalty and the money spent on training is basically lost. Instead management focus on directly hiring seniors. Of course that doesn't work as a whole, because if no one hires juniors there will be a point where there will be no seniors anymore. I also feel little to no pity when those companies complain, that they can't find seniors.
BeFlatXIII 5y ago
New unethical life hack: make up a failed startup to pad out your résumé to get hired as a senior right out of college.