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Can you define what you mean by "actually functional ports"? Are you referring to the removal of a Thunderbolt port, and the addition of a HDMI 2.0 port and SDX

Can you define what you mean by "actually functional ports"? Are you referring to the removal of a Thunderbolt port, and the addition of a HDMI 2.0 port and SDXC slot? Assuming yes (I'm not sure what else you would be referring to that is a 'recent example'), can you explain to me how you consider a port that can connect to practically any peripheral you can imagine at speeds unmatched by any contemporary alternatives, not to be "functional", while you also consider a single-use video port, and a single-use card reader port, both using versions from close to a decade ago, to be "functional"? To be clear, its your choice of wording that I'm questioning here. If you'd said convenient, or more accurately convenient for some/many, I'd still disagree that the benefit of the convenience is worth the cost of losing flexibility, but I'd agree that the port(s) do offer more convenience for some people/workflows. But you didn't say that, you said "functional". I currently use all four TB3 ports on either a 2018 Mac Mini or 2018 MBP15, (without using one dedicated to power); I already run two 4K displays from a single TB3 port (either via the eGPU on the mini, or via a DualDP adapter on the MBP). Only one TB3 device I use is daisy-chainable (i.e. has a downstream TB3 port), and it is already daisy-chained to something else. So if I were to update my portable/spare machine to a 'current' model, yes I'd get a nice CPU/GPU perf boost, and the option for a lot more memory, which is great. But I literally don't have enough ports any more, and suddenly I have two ports that are not usable, for me. I wouldn't quite call them "non functional" because they do function, I just dont have a use for that function, and because they're single-use ports (and OLD single use ports at that) they're not adaptable to anything I do need to use.

strogonoff 5y ago
Am I reading it correctly that USB-C ports on new M1 Macs are not TB? That comes as a big surprise to me.
- stephenr 5y ago
  .. for the most part they are still Thunderbolt. The original M1 Macs (laptops + mini) have 2 Thunderbolt3/USB4 ports. The M1 iMac also has two Thunderbolt3/USB4 ports, but also some models have an additional two USB3.x USB-C ports. The M1Pro/Max MBP's just released have three Thunderbolt 4/USB4 ports. I'm not sure if my post is what confused you, but when I said "removed TB port" I was referring to the drop from four TB3 ports for the last five years, to three TB4 ports on the new models.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Ah, I might have not read carefully. The extra ports and slots I personally would likely never use (if I were to get the new MBP), but then I rarely if ever used all four USB-C ports either.
    - breakfastduck 5y ago
      They've added a separate power input through magsafe though. So if like most users the device is plugged in essentially permanently, there's no port lost because only 3 were ever available anyway.
      - stephenr 5y ago
        I have to assume the people who make this comment have never used TB3 devices. Most TB3 monitors, docks, drive bays, eGPUs etc provide power to the laptop. So while some people maybe don't make use of that capability, it's completely inaccurate to say "there's no port loss". I'd wager that those of us using all four ports already are predominantly using all four for data or video in some way, with one also providing power, rather than one dedicated to power and only three for data/video.
        itsananderson 5y ago
        I used power delivery from my Dell monitor for the last year, but occasionally under heavy workloads it couldn't keep up and my battery would slowly drain. I may have had something misconfigured, but if so I never figured out what it was. Between Yubikey, Ethernet, and two external monitors, I didn't have much choice. I finally gave up and bought a Thunderbolt dock that actually delivers enough power while also providing expanded port capabilities.
        breakfastduck 5y ago
        Point taken but ignorant first line. I'd say this is the minority, for sure. You seem to think the other way around (everyone using a power delivery dock), but that's fine.
wingerlang 5y ago
> convenient for some/many I agree, I haven't used a SD card in over a decade and my HDMI cable is permanently attached to a dongle I can use on any side of my macbook. I really would love it if they had the ports as optional.
matwood 5y ago
You're saying unpopular things here, but I agree! If they added the other ports in addition to keeping 4 tb4 ports, then fine. But we lost a super flexible port for old versions of single use ports. Magsafe was a big deal when I had to use my computer tethered to power all the time. With the m1, it's just not as critical as it was. It's nice, but better would have been to incorporate the latest PD spec for faster charging. Is the sdcard even 'pro' anymore? Where's cfexpress? Pros already have a bunch of sdcard readers that are likely faster than what's in the machine. HDMI is probably the most useful here, but are there still places where people present that haven't permanently attached a usbc connector (same places still using dvi hah)? I haven't needed HDMI in years at this point. Don't get me wrong, ports are fine. But, I'd like them to use the latest versions and not lose one of the tb4 ports.
- stephenr 5y ago
  Yup. I generally like Apple products, but this feels like a step back towards limiting 'solutions' when the industry is finally catching up with proprietary 'enhancements'. USB-C magnetic break-away cables are absolutely a thing that exist. Zero question Apple could have shipped a solution using this, if they wanted. Fast Charge over USB-PD was probably never going to make it in a 2021 product (PD 3.1 was only 'released' in May or something), but "we just added the most efficient processor in years" seems like a weird time to also say "oh and also you can charge it up real quick". I am not a photographer, by any means, but my impression is that a lot of weekend-warrior/"prosumer" types use cameras with SD cards still. Whether because the camera only supports SD or because SD is cheaper than the 'high end' cards.. most online discussions I see about this will routinely have people who do claim to be professional photographers, stating that SD cards are generally not used - they're on high end cameras as a backup, and that they just use a fast external card reader anyway. I can see an argument that HDMI is more convenient if you're going into a meeting room... but in that scenario (a) you're just assuming they have HDMI, and not any of the other various video ports a projector might have, and (b) wouldn't the MacBook Air be a better choice then? I struggle to see the overlap between "Needs the absolute fastest CPU, GPU and most memory" and "needs a laptop ideally suited for meeting rooms".
  - 5y ago

strogonoff 5y ago

Am I reading it correctly that USB-C ports on new M1 Macs are not TB? That comes as a big surprise to me.

stephenr 5y ago
.. for the most part they are still Thunderbolt. The original M1 Macs (laptops + mini) have 2 Thunderbolt3/USB4 ports. The M1 iMac also has two Thunderbolt3/USB4 ports, but also some models have an additional two USB3.x USB-C ports. The M1Pro/Max MBP's just released have three Thunderbolt 4/USB4 ports. I'm not sure if my post is what confused you, but when I said "removed TB port" I was referring to the drop from four TB3 ports for the last five years, to three TB4 ports on the new models.
- strogonoff 5y ago
  Ah, I might have not read carefully. The extra ports and slots I personally would likely never use (if I were to get the new MBP), but then I rarely if ever used all four USB-C ports either.
  - breakfastduck 5y ago
    They've added a separate power input through magsafe though. So if like most users the device is plugged in essentially permanently, there's no port lost because only 3 were ever available anyway.
    - stephenr 5y ago
      I have to assume the people who make this comment have never used TB3 devices. Most TB3 monitors, docks, drive bays, eGPUs etc provide power to the laptop. So while some people maybe don't make use of that capability, it's completely inaccurate to say "there's no port loss". I'd wager that those of us using all four ports already are predominantly using all four for data or video in some way, with one also providing power, rather than one dedicated to power and only three for data/video.
      - itsananderson 5y ago
        I used power delivery from my Dell monitor for the last year, but occasionally under heavy workloads it couldn't keep up and my battery would slowly drain. I may have had something misconfigured, but if so I never figured out what it was. Between Yubikey, Ethernet, and two external monitors, I didn't have much choice. I finally gave up and bought a Thunderbolt dock that actually delivers enough power while also providing expanded port capabilities.
      - breakfastduck 5y ago
        Point taken but ignorant first line. I'd say this is the minority, for sure. You seem to think the other way around (everyone using a power delivery dock), but that's fine.

wingerlang 5y ago

> convenient for some/many I agree, I haven't used a SD card in over a decade and my HDMI cable is permanently attached to a dongle I can use on any side of my macbook. I really would love it if they had the ports as optional.

matwood 5y ago

You're saying unpopular things here, but I agree! If they added the other ports in addition to keeping 4 tb4 ports, then fine. But we lost a super flexible port for old versions of single use ports. Magsafe was a big deal when I had to use my computer tethered to power all the time. With the m1, it's just not as critical as it was. It's nice, but better would have been to incorporate the latest PD spec for faster charging. Is the sdcard even 'pro' anymore? Where's cfexpress? Pros already have a bunch of sdcard readers that are likely faster than what's in the machine. HDMI is probably the most useful here, but are there still places where people present that haven't permanently attached a usbc connector (same places still using dvi hah)? I haven't needed HDMI in years at this point. Don't get me wrong, ports are fine. But, I'd like them to use the latest versions and not lose one of the tb4 ports.

stephenr 5y ago
Yup. I generally like Apple products, but this feels like a step back towards limiting 'solutions' when the industry is finally catching up with proprietary 'enhancements'. USB-C magnetic break-away cables are absolutely a thing that exist. Zero question Apple could have shipped a solution using this, if they wanted. Fast Charge over USB-PD was probably never going to make it in a 2021 product (PD 3.1 was only 'released' in May or something), but "we just added the most efficient processor in years" seems like a weird time to also say "oh and also you can charge it up real quick". I am not a photographer, by any means, but my impression is that a lot of weekend-warrior/"prosumer" types use cameras with SD cards still. Whether because the camera only supports SD or because SD is cheaper than the 'high end' cards.. most online discussions I see about this will routinely have people who do claim to be professional photographers, stating that SD cards are generally not used - they're on high end cameras as a backup, and that they just use a fast external card reader anyway. I can see an argument that HDMI is more convenient if you're going into a meeting room... but in that scenario (a) you're just assuming they have HDMI, and not any of the other various video ports a projector might have, and (b) wouldn't the MacBook Air be a better choice then? I struggle to see the overlap between "Needs the absolute fastest CPU, GPU and most memory" and "needs a laptop ideally suited for meeting rooms".
- 5y ago