6 ms·

It's hard to argue with results we haven't experianced any terrorist attacks on that scale since it was put into law. Maybe my freedom is being infinged someho

It's hard to argue with results we haven't experianced any terrorist attacks on that scale since it was put into law. Maybe my freedom is being infinged somehow but I haven't noticed it

voldacar 5y ago
I have some astrological services to sell you
rembicilious 5y ago
The USA didn’t have any terror attacks on that scale before 9/11 either.
- kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  Imagine you were an Iraqi minding your own business and 100x more of your friends and family were killed by bombs from a foreign attack.
- greenyoda 5y ago
  If the first World Trade Center attack in 1993 would have been more successful, it could have killed thousands of people - the bomb was intended to topple Tower 1 into Tower 2, bringing both down.[1] Luckily, it only ended up killing 6 and injuring 1000. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombin...
- gremlinsinc 5y ago
  Was gonna reply w/ something like this but we did have a few... Germans invaded near the statue of liberty and blew shit up (ww1).... and Pearl Harbor...those were technically acts of war, but amounts to the same, and the sinking of the Luscitania... But, for the most part America has been safe before and after the one isolated event of 9/11 and there's no proof that anything we've done since has made us safer (likely it's had the opposite effect by stirring up animosity).
  - nsonha 5y ago
    no proof but I thought increased airport security must have caught some stuff.
s5300 5y ago
Pretty sure it's been admitted that many programs viable because of the Patriot Act have stopped absolutely zero terrorist attacks and have indeed completely infringed upon your freedoms. https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/nsa-phone-surveillance-illegal-expensive/ https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/nsa-phone-surveillance-illeg...
- headphoneswater 5y ago
  That's hard to believe, we essentialy won the war on terror here's a real report not a political charged blog: https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_the_field0704.pdf https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_...
  - vmception 5y ago
    You should read literally anything from the last 15 years, especially from rights groups. EFF, ACLU, watchdogs, thinktanks. If you only respect government sources then the GAO has plenty of gems on this topic. I’ll make a separate comment for my other thoughts
    - busymom0 5y ago
      ACLU has gone to crap in the last few years unfortunately. It's been fully co-opted by the democrats for many years. Just like the SPLC, ADL etc. Look at where vast majority of their donations come from. 1. ACLU actively gives their data to Facebook: https://www.axios.com/aclu-data-shares-facebook-4f1d21f4-d432-4998-8c67-364500015c28.html https://www.axios.com/aclu-data-shares-facebook-4f1d21f4-d43... https://fortune.com/2021/04/02/aclu-shares-data-facebook-third-parties-digital-privacy/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/02/aclu-shares-data-facebook-thi... 2. ACLU claims Second Amendment is Racist > "Racism is foundational to the Second Amendment and its inclusion in the Bill of Rights." https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1419294620417155074 https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1419294620417155074 Fun fact: Vermont ratified the individual right to gun ownership and the abolishing of slavery in their State Constitution at the same time in 1777. The second amendment actually helped defeat racism and the only thing racist about it is the disproportionate infringement against minorities. > Vermont’s Declaration of Rights of 1777 set forth the following fundamental rights and abolished slavery: That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent, and unalienable rights, amongst which are the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. Therefore, no male person, born in this country, or brought from over sea, ought to be holden by law, to serve any person, as a servant, slave, or apprentice, after he arrives to the age of twenty-one years; nor female, in like manner, after she arrives to the age of eighteen years. > Vt. Constitution, Art. I, § 1 (1777). See Zilversmit at 116. The Vermont Declaration also provided: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State . . . .” Id., § 15. 3. ACLU used to defend free speech of even neo-nazis but have since then abandoned their principles: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstains-from https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstain... 4. ACLU's most famous lawyer calls JK Rowling and Abigail Shrier "white supremacists" without any proof whatsoever: https://twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1358246098364583936?lang=en https://twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1358246098364583936... The same lawyer has also called for banning of Abigail Shrier's book. 5. Last year, they warned against using COVID-19 passport systems as they endanger privacy rights by creating a new surveillance infrastructure to collect health data which has the potential of mission creep to expand into other areas such as conditioning travel or access to housing. Such status may be stored with other personal details, such as travel, employment, or housing information, heightening the intrusiveness of an immunity passport system. They recommended focussing on the implementation of widespread, free, and quick testing, without creating a new privacy-invasive infrastructure that threatens everyone’s rights. https://archive.is/5KrP8 https://archive.is/5KrP8 But now, ACLU claims ‘Vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties’: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vaccine-mandates-actually-further-civil-liberties-the-aclu-writes-in-an-op-ed-11630609117 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vaccine-mandates-actually-... The ACLU, Prior to COVID, Denounced Mandates and Coercive Measures to Fight Pandemics. Now, they have completely reversed its views, arguing vaccine mandates help civil liberties and bodily autonomy "is not absolute." https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-aclu-prior-to-covid-denounced https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-aclu-prior-to-covid-den...
nsonha 5y ago
Didn’t someone in CIA claim they had all the data that could uncover the attack plan, just didn’t have enough analysts for that to have happened? If that is true then increasing surveillance would not change a thing, at the end data collected will just sit there untouched, or waiting to be abused.
- aaronbrethorst 5y ago
  Bush was warned over a month before the attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike...
  - craftinator 5y ago
    My favorite part was when he knee-jerk reacted to the towers being bombed by invading 2 countries that we knew had nothing to do with it.
    - kuraudo 5y ago
      Still waiting on Saudi Arabia invasion (not that I believe that would be the proper answer either, but still).
      - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
        Saudi Arabia is an ally, an a bussiness partner
      - lamontcg 5y ago
        You misspelled Iran. Trump gave it a shot by assassinating Soleimani, the Iranians just didn't retaliate enough to provide justification.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      Never let a crisis go to waste for strategical ambitions I guess.
  - 5y ago
aaronbrethorst 5y ago
Homer : Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job. Lisa : That's specious reasoning, Dad. Homer : Thank you, sweetie. Lisa : Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers. Homer : Uh-huh, and how does it work? Lisa : It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock. Homer : I see. Lisa : But you don't see any tigers around, do you? Homer : Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw
- craftinator 5y ago
  To the parent commenter: do you shear yourself, or does somebody just come by with clippers every now and then?
  - aaronbrethorst 5y ago
    Frankly I’m disappointed you didn’t call me a “sheeple,” but I’ll let it go because I’m excited to meet the one person in the United States who still must like Dick Cheney. Hi! (Or are you referring to the person I replied to…?)
    - craftinator 5y ago
      > (Or are you referring to the person I replied to…?) Well, this is awkward... Yes.
    - craftinator 5y ago
      And it's a bit late to edit, but I really did want to use sheeple... Just felt too obtuse, I wanted to be just a little more circumspect.
- cm2187 5y ago
  To the OP’s defence, there has been numerous, large scale murderous terrorist attacks in Europe over the same period, so it’s not like if there was no bear in sight. Now you can debate whether it is the result of good policing or of a much smaller muslim immigration or some other factor.
CalChris 5y ago
Boston Marathon bombing. San Bernadino shootings.
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  The Boston Marathon bombing is another example of the US intelligence community knowing about the danger. The Russians rang us up and said "hey these two traveled to and from a known terrorist training camp", and everyone just shrugged. Day-of, the bomb sniffing dogs left the finish line area when the VIPs did. Not long after, the bombers set up their bombs...
- nsonha 5y ago
  speaking of shooting, not a single thing changed because no evident the sugested changes would help
gitgud 5y ago
Correlation does not imply causation...

It's hard to argue with results we haven't experianced any terrorist attacks on that scale since it was put into law. Maybe my freedom is being infinged somehow but I haven't noticed it

voldacar 5y ago

I have some astrological services to sell you

rembicilious 5y ago

The USA didn’t have any terror attacks on that scale before 9/11 either.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Imagine you were an Iraqi minding your own business and 100x more of your friends and family were killed by bombs from a foreign attack.
greenyoda 5y ago
If the first World Trade Center attack in 1993 would have been more successful, it could have killed thousands of people - the bomb was intended to topple Tower 1 into Tower 2, bringing both down.[1] Luckily, it only ended up killing 6 and injuring 1000. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombin...
gremlinsinc 5y ago
Was gonna reply w/ something like this but we did have a few... Germans invaded near the statue of liberty and blew shit up (ww1).... and Pearl Harbor...those were technically acts of war, but amounts to the same, and the sinking of the Luscitania... But, for the most part America has been safe before and after the one isolated event of 9/11 and there's no proof that anything we've done since has made us safer (likely it's had the opposite effect by stirring up animosity).
- nsonha 5y ago
  no proof but I thought increased airport security must have caught some stuff.

s5300 5y ago

Pretty sure it's been admitted that many programs viable because of the Patriot Act have stopped absolutely zero terrorist attacks and have indeed completely infringed upon your freedoms. https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/nsa-phone-surveillance-illegal-expensive/ https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/nsa-phone-surveillance-illeg...

headphoneswater 5y ago
That's hard to believe, we essentialy won the war on terror here's a real report not a political charged blog: https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_the_field0704.pdf https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/pdf/patriot_report_from_...
- vmception 5y ago
  You should read literally anything from the last 15 years, especially from rights groups. EFF, ACLU, watchdogs, thinktanks. If you only respect government sources then the GAO has plenty of gems on this topic. I’ll make a separate comment for my other thoughts
  - busymom0 5y ago
    ACLU has gone to crap in the last few years unfortunately. It's been fully co-opted by the democrats for many years. Just like the SPLC, ADL etc. Look at where vast majority of their donations come from. 1. ACLU actively gives their data to Facebook: https://www.axios.com/aclu-data-shares-facebook-4f1d21f4-d432-4998-8c67-364500015c28.html https://www.axios.com/aclu-data-shares-facebook-4f1d21f4-d43... https://fortune.com/2021/04/02/aclu-shares-data-facebook-third-parties-digital-privacy/ https://fortune.com/2021/04/02/aclu-shares-data-facebook-thi... 2. ACLU claims Second Amendment is Racist > "Racism is foundational to the Second Amendment and its inclusion in the Bill of Rights." https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1419294620417155074 https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/1419294620417155074 Fun fact: Vermont ratified the individual right to gun ownership and the abolishing of slavery in their State Constitution at the same time in 1777. The second amendment actually helped defeat racism and the only thing racist about it is the disproportionate infringement against minorities. > Vermont’s Declaration of Rights of 1777 set forth the following fundamental rights and abolished slavery: That all men are born equally free and independent, and have certain natural, inherent, and unalienable rights, amongst which are the enjoying and defending life and liberty; acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety. Therefore, no male person, born in this country, or brought from over sea, ought to be holden by law, to serve any person, as a servant, slave, or apprentice, after he arrives to the age of twenty-one years; nor female, in like manner, after she arrives to the age of eighteen years. > Vt. Constitution, Art. I, § 1 (1777). See Zilversmit at 116. The Vermont Declaration also provided: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State . . . .” Id., § 15. 3. ACLU used to defend free speech of even neo-nazis but have since then abandoned their principles: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstains-from https://greenwald.substack.com/p/aclu-again-cowardly-abstain... 4. ACLU's most famous lawyer calls JK Rowling and Abigail Shrier "white supremacists" without any proof whatsoever: https://twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1358246098364583936?lang=en https://twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1358246098364583936... The same lawyer has also called for banning of Abigail Shrier's book. 5. Last year, they warned against using COVID-19 passport systems as they endanger privacy rights by creating a new surveillance infrastructure to collect health data which has the potential of mission creep to expand into other areas such as conditioning travel or access to housing. Such status may be stored with other personal details, such as travel, employment, or housing information, heightening the intrusiveness of an immunity passport system. They recommended focussing on the implementation of widespread, free, and quick testing, without creating a new privacy-invasive infrastructure that threatens everyone’s rights. https://archive.is/5KrP8 https://archive.is/5KrP8 But now, ACLU claims ‘Vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties’: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vaccine-mandates-actually-further-civil-liberties-the-aclu-writes-in-an-op-ed-11630609117 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/vaccine-mandates-actually-... The ACLU, Prior to COVID, Denounced Mandates and Coercive Measures to Fight Pandemics. Now, they have completely reversed its views, arguing vaccine mandates help civil liberties and bodily autonomy "is not absolute." https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-aclu-prior-to-covid-denounced https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-aclu-prior-to-covid-den...

nsonha 5y ago

Didn’t someone in CIA claim they had all the data that could uncover the attack plan, just didn’t have enough analysts for that to have happened? If that is true then increasing surveillance would not change a thing, at the end data collected will just sit there untouched, or waiting to be abused.

aaronbrethorst 5y ago
Bush was warned over a month before the attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike...
- craftinator 5y ago
  My favorite part was when he knee-jerk reacted to the towers being bombed by invading 2 countries that we knew had nothing to do with it.
  - kuraudo 5y ago
    Still waiting on Saudi Arabia invasion (not that I believe that would be the proper answer either, but still).
    - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
      Saudi Arabia is an ally, an a bussiness partner
    - lamontcg 5y ago
      You misspelled Iran. Trump gave it a shot by assassinating Soleimani, the Iranians just didn't retaliate enough to provide justification.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Never let a crisis go to waste for strategical ambitions I guess.
- 5y ago

aaronbrethorst 5y ago

Homer : Well, there's not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol is sure doing its job. Lisa : That's specious reasoning, Dad. Homer : Thank you, sweetie. Lisa : Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers. Homer : Uh-huh, and how does it work? Lisa : It doesn't work. It's just a stupid rock. Homer : I see. Lisa : But you don't see any tigers around, do you? Homer : Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw

craftinator 5y ago
To the parent commenter: do you shear yourself, or does somebody just come by with clippers every now and then?
- aaronbrethorst 5y ago
  Frankly I’m disappointed you didn’t call me a “sheeple,” but I’ll let it go because I’m excited to meet the one person in the United States who still must like Dick Cheney. Hi! (Or are you referring to the person I replied to…?)
  - craftinator 5y ago
    > (Or are you referring to the person I replied to…?) Well, this is awkward... Yes.
  - craftinator 5y ago
    And it's a bit late to edit, but I really did want to use sheeple... Just felt too obtuse, I wanted to be just a little more circumspect.
cm2187 5y ago
To the OP’s defence, there has been numerous, large scale murderous terrorist attacks in Europe over the same period, so it’s not like if there was no bear in sight. Now you can debate whether it is the result of good policing or of a much smaller muslim immigration or some other factor.

CalChris 5y ago

Boston Marathon bombing. San Bernadino shootings.

KennyBlanken 5y ago
The Boston Marathon bombing is another example of the US intelligence community knowing about the danger. The Russians rang us up and said "hey these two traveled to and from a known terrorist training camp", and everyone just shrugged. Day-of, the bomb sniffing dogs left the finish line area when the VIPs did. Not long after, the bombers set up their bombs...
nsonha 5y ago
speaking of shooting, not a single thing changed because no evident the sugested changes would help

gitgud 5y ago

Correlation does not imply causation...