8 ms·

The Benefits of Iframe Based Development

83 points by toricalea 5y ago

yoursunny 5y ago
IFRAMEs still require a top-level page and their positions still need CSS. I usually use FRAMESET and FRAMEs: they are positioned perfectly in a grid, with no need for CSS or TABLE. There's no postMessage API: you can write <A target=other-frame-name> to navigate to a page in another FRAME. HTML5 doesn't have FRAMESET, but all the browsers still support HTML4 perfectly.
marstall 5y ago
Iframes have always been "bad", ever since they were introduced by IE in the late 90s (?). Inconsistent browser support, weird janky way of existing in a page, having their own scrollbars, not being able to stretch to fit their content or move when pushed by adjacent content, were iframe issues that I remember being very apparent in that era. but perhaps these issues have all been remedied? And Iframe is now the perfect container for a modern day component? ... passing messages directly between parts of a page distinctly unfashionable in the age of redux and context. Having each component be its own request to the server - bizarre-seeming in 2021 but maybe something transformational there if our future is moving back to server-rendered HTML ... some crazy blockchain webserver coordinating ui state across dozens of tiny frames in a webpage, each with its own crypto account ? ... could be great, who knows [edit: if I have just engaged in debate with an AI programmed to generate absurdities (per @solarpunk's comment), I have some preconceptions I'll have to go and reevaluate now]
- wldcordeiro 5y ago
  I recall seeing something about Spotify being done with iframes in this style.
  - kfarr 5y ago
    Many modern web video players are iframe based for embedding in third party sites.
    - asddubs 5y ago
      beats having to execute random third party script coode on your site
- geoffmunn 5y ago
  Iframes were a non-standard IE-only feature that also had accessibility issues and obviously wouldn't work in Netscape. They were very handy for a variety of scenarios so it became part of the spec, but I think most self-respecting web developers avoided them out of principle.
OptionX 5y ago
I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone make a case FOR the use use of iframes. I have no opinion on it personally, but I remember reading more than a few articles treating them like the plague.
- gnarbarian 5y ago
  there is a use for them. I think I've used them three or four times in my career in the last 15 years and they worked great.
- artificialLimbs 5y ago
  Our entire internal site [let us call it a CMS] is made using iframes. We are about to move toward something different because mobile. Suggestions welcome. We're a php shop.
  - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
    PHP shop moving away from iframes because of responsiveness in 2021 is quite interesting to me for some reason. I can't quite put my finger on it...
    - Lorin 5y ago
      PHP has been able to move on, and since it's server side language things are easier to change on a per-site basis. Iframes must remain fully backwards compatible or they break the web as a whole, same with anything else being rendered by the browser.
      - johannes1234321 5y ago
        In a way PHP is one of the tools which helped to move away from iframes. With "static" web pages people used iframes, so they didn't have to update navigation on all pages. With PHP you cod simply do <?php include ('menu.php');?> and had a single source of truth. This makes about 90% of early PHP scripts :)
- 5y ago
solarpunk 5y ago
So, best I can tell the content on this site is AI generated, and I can uprank/downrank posts by using a token that I gain by listening to AI generated music? I'm getting weird uncanny valley vibes lol.
- marstall 5y ago
  lol if so that is awesome
  - solarpunk 5y ago
    Yeah I'm legitimately impressed.
    - kfarr 5y ago
      It seems like passing an important AI test, like hacker news Turing test.
      - sitkack 5y ago
        This is apparently HNs first rodeo.
- yunyu 5y ago
  If you look closely at the profile photo that the post is "Posted by", the distorted background makes it clear that it's a deepfake
  - solarpunk 5y ago
    Oh, I came to that conclusion after I had checked the image URIs which shows they are all in a subdirectory titled aipeople LOL
    - bestcoder69 5y ago
      Also if you read the about pages on the site, it says the post authors are digital people that were bred (...i.e. two digital people mated) on its sister site Celody. You use Celody to earn tokens (by listening to generative music) that you can spend on mating digital people and drafting laws.
egberts1 5y ago
N. O. NO!
robbedpeter 5y ago
I, for one, welcome our new web developer overlords.
dave_sullivan 5y ago
If you read an article by an algorithm and then discuss it as if it were written by a human, was the turning test passed?
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  well, most people don't read the article. Only the headline. Some look at it, but take it as a reason to argue knowingly. not easy to take a conclusion ...
- robocat 5y ago
  The article is not written by an AI - all the facts are correct, and the internal references within the sentences are all correct. I have used invisible iframes as security sandboxes for third party code. The “Modular Development” section is weak IMHO, since visible iframes introduce UI and UX issues. It reads like something a web developer might write. I googled two sentences as a test, and they were both unique to that page and site. Edit: code quality is questionable - by my reckoning. Look at code buttons on this page: https://celody.com/modules.html https://celody.com/modules.html
  - capableweb 5y ago
    > I googled two sentences as a test, and they were both unique to that page and site It's not impossible to generate new sentences with AI, we've been able to do this for a long time. The footer on https://stakedy.com/long/how-staking-on-stakedy-works.html https://stakedy.com/long/how-staking-on-stakedy-works.html (the about page) says: > Stakedy is a product from digital people within Celody I'm not sure if that means that the Authors of the posts are AIs, or if it's just made from the same people that made Celody. Maybe the ambiguity is on purpose?
  - jstanley 5y ago
    > The article is not written by an AI - all the facts are correct, and the internal references within the sentences are all correct. I don't see how this follows. You seem to have started from the position that an AI can not write an article with correct facts and internal consistency, and then argued that since this article has correct facts and internal consistency, it can not have been written by an AI?
sillycube 5y ago
The issue is that browsers don't like 3rd party cookies used in iframe. But there is not a suitable alternative completely replacing cookies
bluepnume 5y ago
IFrames are both terrible and awesome. I built and maintain zoid, which turns iframes into full-fledged components; it's been an adventure: https://github.com/krakenjs/zoid https://github.com/krakenjs/zoid
- marstall 5y ago
  interesting project. I wish Spotify's iframe-based web widgets would use this to provide a modicum of configurability, and also emit events so you knew when someone was playing something ...
usui 5y ago
Honestly I think the scarier part is that "real" tech articles are rapidly approaching this level of quality and I can't tell if the "real" articles are being written by automation, or people who love to copy and paste. It's getting that bad. Modern tech journalism is just so vapid and devoid of any content, so even the parent post was more fun to read than the regular. For an example, tech-based articles I loathe sifting through online are about anything related to recent events like a macOS update. Google Search: "macos big sur release notes" https://imgur.com/a/fmhyk6d https://imgur.com/a/fmhyk6d Imagine going to the first Apple link, not getting any details, and then moving onto the 3rd and 4th links hoping that some internet journalist broke down the details for you because the title includes "What's New?". Nope. The links all just resort to barely-updated articles that basically say "11.6.1 got released". Amazing, thank you tech journalists! At least an article about iframes might give some boring facts to help crunch in your mind while your eyes glaze through. 3rd and 4th links: - https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-big-sur-11-6-1-update-whats-new/ https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-big-sur-11-6-1-update-whats-ne... - https://www.macworld.com/article/234324/macos-big-sur-faq.html https://www.macworld.com/article/234324/macos-big-sur-faq.ht...
anyfactor 5y ago
This article reads weirdly. Like the questions in my exams where I don't exactly know the answer but I know the main defintion of the topic. Then in the last 5 minutes of the exam I just go ahead and write a bunch of stuff only based on the defintion of the main topic. I will reuse and rephrasee the same thing over and over to give some meat to the answer but it is not a great answer and provides zero insights.
d13 5y ago
I’m confused! What’s going on here??

83 points by toricalea 5y ago

IFRAMEs still require a top-level page and their positions still need CSS. I usually use FRAMESET and FRAMEs: they are positioned perfectly in a grid, with no need for CSS or TABLE. There's no postMessage API: you can write <A target=other-frame-name> to navigate to a page in another FRAME. HTML5 doesn't have FRAMESET, but all the browsers still support HTML4 perfectly.

marstall 5y ago

Iframes have always been "bad", ever since they were introduced by IE in the late 90s (?). Inconsistent browser support, weird janky way of existing in a page, having their own scrollbars, not being able to stretch to fit their content or move when pushed by adjacent content, were iframe issues that I remember being very apparent in that era. but perhaps these issues have all been remedied? And Iframe is now the perfect container for a modern day component? ... passing messages directly between parts of a page distinctly unfashionable in the age of redux and context. Having each component be its own request to the server - bizarre-seeming in 2021 but maybe something transformational there if our future is moving back to server-rendered HTML ... some crazy blockchain webserver coordinating ui state across dozens of tiny frames in a webpage, each with its own crypto account ? ... could be great, who knows [edit: if I have just engaged in debate with an AI programmed to generate absurdities (per @solarpunk's comment), I have some preconceptions I'll have to go and reevaluate now]

wldcordeiro 5y ago
I recall seeing something about Spotify being done with iframes in this style.
- kfarr 5y ago
  Many modern web video players are iframe based for embedding in third party sites.
  - asddubs 5y ago
    beats having to execute random third party script coode on your site
geoffmunn 5y ago
Iframes were a non-standard IE-only feature that also had accessibility issues and obviously wouldn't work in Netscape. They were very handy for a variety of scenarios so it became part of the spec, but I think most self-respecting web developers avoided them out of principle.

OptionX 5y ago

I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone make a case FOR the use use of iframes. I have no opinion on it personally, but I remember reading more than a few articles treating them like the plague.

gnarbarian 5y ago
there is a use for them. I think I've used them three or four times in my career in the last 15 years and they worked great.
artificialLimbs 5y ago
Our entire internal site [let us call it a CMS] is made using iframes. We are about to move toward something different because mobile. Suggestions welcome. We're a php shop.
- weird-eye-issue 5y ago
  PHP shop moving away from iframes because of responsiveness in 2021 is quite interesting to me for some reason. I can't quite put my finger on it...
  - Lorin 5y ago
    PHP has been able to move on, and since it's server side language things are easier to change on a per-site basis. Iframes must remain fully backwards compatible or they break the web as a whole, same with anything else being rendered by the browser.
    - johannes1234321 5y ago
      In a way PHP is one of the tools which helped to move away from iframes. With "static" web pages people used iframes, so they didn't have to update navigation on all pages. With PHP you cod simply do <?php include ('menu.php');?> and had a single source of truth. This makes about 90% of early PHP scripts :)
5y ago

solarpunk 5y ago

So, best I can tell the content on this site is AI generated, and I can uprank/downrank posts by using a token that I gain by listening to AI generated music? I'm getting weird uncanny valley vibes lol.

marstall 5y ago
lol if so that is awesome
- solarpunk 5y ago
  Yeah I'm legitimately impressed.
  - kfarr 5y ago
    It seems like passing an important AI test, like hacker news Turing test.
    - sitkack 5y ago
      This is apparently HNs first rodeo.
yunyu 5y ago
If you look closely at the profile photo that the post is "Posted by", the distorted background makes it clear that it's a deepfake
- solarpunk 5y ago
  Oh, I came to that conclusion after I had checked the image URIs which shows they are all in a subdirectory titled aipeople LOL
  - bestcoder69 5y ago
    Also if you read the about pages on the site, it says the post authors are digital people that were bred (...i.e. two digital people mated) on its sister site Celody. You use Celody to earn tokens (by listening to generative music) that you can spend on mating digital people and drafting laws.

egberts1 5y ago

N. O. NO!

robbedpeter 5y ago

I, for one, welcome our new web developer overlords.

dave_sullivan 5y ago

If you read an article by an algorithm and then discuss it as if it were written by a human, was the turning test passed?

johannes1234321 5y ago
well, most people don't read the article. Only the headline. Some look at it, but take it as a reason to argue knowingly. not easy to take a conclusion ...
robocat 5y ago
The article is not written by an AI - all the facts are correct, and the internal references within the sentences are all correct. I have used invisible iframes as security sandboxes for third party code. The “Modular Development” section is weak IMHO, since visible iframes introduce UI and UX issues. It reads like something a web developer might write. I googled two sentences as a test, and they were both unique to that page and site. Edit: code quality is questionable - by my reckoning. Look at code buttons on this page: https://celody.com/modules.html https://celody.com/modules.html
- capableweb 5y ago
  > I googled two sentences as a test, and they were both unique to that page and site It's not impossible to generate new sentences with AI, we've been able to do this for a long time. The footer on https://stakedy.com/long/how-staking-on-stakedy-works.html https://stakedy.com/long/how-staking-on-stakedy-works.html (the about page) says: > Stakedy is a product from digital people within Celody I'm not sure if that means that the Authors of the posts are AIs, or if it's just made from the same people that made Celody. Maybe the ambiguity is on purpose?
- jstanley 5y ago
  > The article is not written by an AI - all the facts are correct, and the internal references within the sentences are all correct. I don't see how this follows. You seem to have started from the position that an AI can not write an article with correct facts and internal consistency, and then argued that since this article has correct facts and internal consistency, it can not have been written by an AI?

sillycube 5y ago

The issue is that browsers don't like 3rd party cookies used in iframe. But there is not a suitable alternative completely replacing cookies

bluepnume 5y ago

IFrames are both terrible and awesome. I built and maintain zoid, which turns iframes into full-fledged components; it's been an adventure: https://github.com/krakenjs/zoid https://github.com/krakenjs/zoid

marstall 5y ago
interesting project. I wish Spotify's iframe-based web widgets would use this to provide a modicum of configurability, and also emit events so you knew when someone was playing something ...

usui 5y ago

Honestly I think the scarier part is that "real" tech articles are rapidly approaching this level of quality and I can't tell if the "real" articles are being written by automation, or people who love to copy and paste. It's getting that bad. Modern tech journalism is just so vapid and devoid of any content, so even the parent post was more fun to read than the regular. For an example, tech-based articles I loathe sifting through online are about anything related to recent events like a macOS update. Google Search: "macos big sur release notes" https://imgur.com/a/fmhyk6d https://imgur.com/a/fmhyk6d Imagine going to the first Apple link, not getting any details, and then moving onto the 3rd and 4th links hoping that some internet journalist broke down the details for you because the title includes "What's New?". Nope. The links all just resort to barely-updated articles that basically say "11.6.1 got released". Amazing, thank you tech journalists! At least an article about iframes might give some boring facts to help crunch in your mind while your eyes glaze through. 3rd and 4th links: - https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-big-sur-11-6-1-update-whats-new/ https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-big-sur-11-6-1-update-whats-ne... - https://www.macworld.com/article/234324/macos-big-sur-faq.html https://www.macworld.com/article/234324/macos-big-sur-faq.ht...

anyfactor 5y ago

This article reads weirdly. Like the questions in my exams where I don't exactly know the answer but I know the main defintion of the topic. Then in the last 5 minutes of the exam I just go ahead and write a bunch of stuff only based on the defintion of the main topic. I will reuse and rephrasee the same thing over and over to give some meat to the answer but it is not a great answer and provides zero insights.

d13 5y ago

I’m confused! What’s going on here??