7 ms·

Diablo Immortal

44 points by finite_jest 5y ago

chiph 5y ago
WoW player since 2008, and I unsubbed this year just before my 6 month subscription was about to be paid because of all the "shenanigans". I too am watching what happens at Blizzard carefully. I hope they get their act together. In the meantime, I'm trying out Final Fantasy XIV. So far .. definitely a different feel to the game and player culture.
- w7 5y ago
  It's been weird watching the knee-jerk renaming and rewriting of things by WoW staff as a result. Weird choices like removing the "consort" title from female NPCs, but not male. As if the word "consort" itself had a negative connotation, but only for one segment of the population. It's like they have no direction, and think they can solve something by awkward in-game gestures.
fareesh 5y ago
It's unfortunate that this person had to apologize for playing Diablo just to be able to review it without fear of repercussions. Coming soon: "Hey everyone here is my review of the iPhone 25. Just so you know, I got the new iPhone but I spent a few hours in prayer and penance thinking about climate change and my consumption and carbon and Chinese slave labor before I clicked buy" Then again, maybe they genuinely felt that way. I hope that's the case.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
  Isn’t it peer pressure that results in companies that stop acting like assholes? If you just shrug your shoulders and consume their products, do you think they’d change?
  - crazy_horse 5y ago
    Why work for Bezos up until 2020 if you care?
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      Apologize for paying taxes while you are on it
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > Isn’t it peer pressure that results in companies that stop acting like assholes? I don't have a good theory of what stops people from "acting like assholes" but I am skeptical that opining about potential complicity for playing some video game is a significant factor.
- jerglingu 5y ago
  It seems (at least anecdotally) that there are a lot of people in tech who may not game anymore, but nonetheless have a history steeped in Blizzard games like the author. And with the recent Blizzard news, a lot of people are trying to untangle the dissonance expressed by the memories of their adolescence and early adulthood with the recent legal and cultural scrutiny Blizzard is under. The public penance is I think the author's way of wrestling with this dissonance.
  - munchbunny 5y ago
    Hell I still game and have trouble with that dissonance. I have lovely memories of Diablo 2 and StarCraft, played Diablo 3 and Overwatch, but the recent events convinced me to just not touch Blizzard games for a few years.
    - jandorn 5y ago
      I’m out of the loop, what recent events?
      - easton 5y ago
        Blizzard had a ton of sexual harrassment internally that the company didn't care about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Department_of_Fair_Employment_and_Housing_v._Activision_Blizzard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Department_of_Fair_...
        mpfundstein 5y ago
        alleged
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    > It seems (at least anecdotally) that there are a lot of people in tech who may not game anymore The newest, most popular game is "how outraged can I get".
- keymone 5y ago
  Funny you single out Apple when I would worry about any other producer way more both in terms of climate impact and slave labour.
- aczerepinski 5y ago
  I deleted all my Blizzard games when they banned somebody for being pro-democracy (Hong Kong). That’s just bonkers ethics coming from a company based in California.
- simias 5y ago
  I didn't read any "fear of repercussions" in the article, just mostly personal ethical concerns. You're building a strawman here. >Just so you know, I got the new iPhone but I spent a few hours in prayer and penance thinking about climate change and my consumption and carbon and Chinese slave labor before I clicked buy. Prayer and penance notwithstanding, is it such a bad idea to pay more attention to these things?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
itsthecourier 5y ago
i will always miss the abilities tree of diablo 2 and its synergies. it made you think. it made you know your decisions have consequences, you had to plan carefully and stick to the plan. diablo 3 and stuff like blizzard's heroes of the storm are practically games for stupid people, they removed the complexity of carefully choosing skills and made it as simple as possible. god, please bring back complexity, this kind of rpgs were enjoyed by geeks like my and my friends, no need to streamline losing us just trying to become the next fortnite
Jyaif 5y ago
It feels like it was written by a 12 years old. Very off-putting writing style.
vesuvianvenus 5y ago
Diablo lovers... check out Path of Exile II. It's continues in terms of UX, where Diablo 2 left off.
- arbitrage 5y ago
  .... you can't check out PoE2? There isn't even a playable beta. From their website: "We don't have a release date for Path of Exile 2 yet, but we're unlikely to start a Beta until 2022 at the earliest. In the meantime, we are continuing to release Path of Exile expansions on our regular three-month cycle. "
  - vesuvianvenus 5y ago
    nah, look it up on steam. it releases a free expansion pack every season or so.
have_faith 5y ago
> Aesthetically? Yep, Diablo, nailed it. I'm guessing this must mean nailed the D3 aesthetic, and in no way D2. Which makes sense as D3 already looked like a ressed up mobile game.
rjbwork 5y ago
Diablo is unfortunately a lost cause in my eyes. Simplified gameplay, skills, items, etc. I'm a big ARPG fan and am currently enjoying the latest Path of Exile league. I don't see myself returning to the Diablo universe anytime soon.
- Thaxll 5y ago
  The problemn with PoE is that it's too amateur, yes the skill tree is big but the rest is very not much on part with diablo in term of animation, sounds , muscis, combat feeling, gameplay, ui etc ...
- bob1029 5y ago
  > Simplified gameplay, skills, items, etc. This is a hard stop for me. If the game is not complex enough to trigger my dopamine loop, I'll just log back into my work PC and get back to coding, or go watch Netflix. I don't even care if a game has sweaty PVP or other competitive aspects. I just want to be challenged in novel ways which result in rewarding outcomes. The more dynamic the game space, the better. I feel like alternative titles like POE provide a far superior "game space" compared to the latest iterations of Diablo, but I haven't been able to find the time to get myself hooked on it yet.
PeterisP 5y ago
The first paragraph question "But I wonder if it’s ethical to play anything from [company], these days?" probably is the most discussion-worthy topic of this article. I'd argue that the answer to that question is "yes", no matter if it's Blizzard or some other company. It's completely ethically valid to boycott a shitty company with shitty leadership and shitty culture (as OP puts it), however, it's also completely ethically valid to not boycott such a company and simply pick the best product. There is no ethical duty to participate in every fight; it's ethically good (and better) to "fight for good" but it's also completely ethically acceptable to not put effort in any one of the near-infinite of those fights - it's only unethical if you're actually harming others or doing evil, and just living your life is not that. Guilt by distant association is an abhorrent concept that should not be validated - using someone's products does not imply supporting the company's policies or leaders/owners personal behavior or political actions. If you want to make a point of ostracising someone, sure, go right ahead, but there's a very high bar to pass to state that it would an ethical requirement for everyone else to participate in that ostracism - IMHO it might be debatable if it would be a an ethical requirement in case of clearly convicted murderers, and even more so in cases which are (a) less severe than murder and (b) the particular culprits less clearly proven.
- awild 5y ago
  You can however question platforming an entity with such a shitty history or at least contextualise it like in the op.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    Is playing a computer game "platforming an entity"? It's really fascinating how these neologisms evolve.
    - awild 5y ago
      No, but recommending it to a lot of people is. Literally.
    - revolvingocelot 5y ago
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
> “Leoric?” So this is the same story as D3? Um… so far, yeah. In fact, I played last night until, at L18, I got ganked by the Skeleton King. And yep, Deckard Cain is there. Oh God why. The Diablo III story is so incredibly bad. They waited all this time to rehash it on mobile? This is why people hate Blizzard. It’s just so lazy to not have at least made a new story and characters instead of retreading the same tired ground. It’s why people screamed when Blizzard announced this game.
- codeflo 5y ago
  I think the bad writing in D3 is a weird consequence of WoW's success. Either because they hoped to attract part of WoW's audience, or for the simple fact that a lot of Blizzard's staff at the time had also worked on WoW and were more familiar with that style, both Starcraft II and Diablo III suffered from a cartoony art direction and a story that didn't take itself very seriously compared to their predecessors. In Diablo II, Diablo greets you with "Not even death can save you from me", one of the most iconic lines in all of gaming, creepy and to the point. In Diablo III, Diablo holds an entire monologue explaining the boss mechanics, something like, "Now you're trapped in my realm, you can only escape by defeating the shadows, but none have ever managed to do that har har har". You can't get emotionally invested in a world with writing like that.
  - ElonMuskrat 5y ago
    Or another theory that all the talent that contributed to great success stories at Blizzard went to better jobs or launched their own indie studio.
sinsterizme 5y ago
I’ve found Grim Dawn to be the best ARPG if you’re looking for something similar to Diablo
- marak830 5y ago
  Thanks, I'll give it a go.
meibo 5y ago
Don't you guys have phones?
guax 5y ago
Do you guys not have phones?
Shadonototra 5y ago
Why do they want to rewrite history? Here is the reason why people HATE and boycott diablo immortal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkHAlhCvWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkHAlhCvWg
antisthenes 5y ago
> Then, with your right thumb, you bash away at your attacks and spells and health orbs and so on. The big circle down at the very bottom right is your primary attack and, just like regular Diablo, you spend most of your time bang-bang-banging away at it > In practice, it feels… a lot like playing on a PC or Playstation. Hard oof. If the author doesn't see the contradiction there and writes that with a straight face, then I really don't see why I should take any other nonsense they write seriously. Equating mobile controls with mouse/keyboard? Sorry, you shouldn't be writing about computer games.
akmarinov 5y ago
Path of Exile said they’re working on a mobile version 2+ years ago, but I guess that’s dead, since there’s been nothing on it

44 points by finite_jest 5y ago

WoW player since 2008, and I unsubbed this year just before my 6 month subscription was about to be paid because of all the "shenanigans". I too am watching what happens at Blizzard carefully. I hope they get their act together. In the meantime, I'm trying out Final Fantasy XIV. So far .. definitely a different feel to the game and player culture.

w7 5y ago
It's been weird watching the knee-jerk renaming and rewriting of things by WoW staff as a result. Weird choices like removing the "consort" title from female NPCs, but not male. As if the word "consort" itself had a negative connotation, but only for one segment of the population. It's like they have no direction, and think they can solve something by awkward in-game gestures.

fareesh 5y ago

It's unfortunate that this person had to apologize for playing Diablo just to be able to review it without fear of repercussions. Coming soon: "Hey everyone here is my review of the iPhone 25. Just so you know, I got the new iPhone but I spent a few hours in prayer and penance thinking about climate change and my consumption and carbon and Chinese slave labor before I clicked buy" Then again, maybe they genuinely felt that way. I hope that's the case.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
Isn’t it peer pressure that results in companies that stop acting like assholes? If you just shrug your shoulders and consume their products, do you think they’d change?
- crazy_horse 5y ago
  Why work for Bezos up until 2020 if you care?
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    Apologize for paying taxes while you are on it
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- slibhb 5y ago
  > Isn’t it peer pressure that results in companies that stop acting like assholes? I don't have a good theory of what stops people from "acting like assholes" but I am skeptical that opining about potential complicity for playing some video game is a significant factor.
jerglingu 5y ago
It seems (at least anecdotally) that there are a lot of people in tech who may not game anymore, but nonetheless have a history steeped in Blizzard games like the author. And with the recent Blizzard news, a lot of people are trying to untangle the dissonance expressed by the memories of their adolescence and early adulthood with the recent legal and cultural scrutiny Blizzard is under. The public penance is I think the author's way of wrestling with this dissonance.
- munchbunny 5y ago
  Hell I still game and have trouble with that dissonance. I have lovely memories of Diablo 2 and StarCraft, played Diablo 3 and Overwatch, but the recent events convinced me to just not touch Blizzard games for a few years.
  - jandorn 5y ago
    I’m out of the loop, what recent events?
    - easton 5y ago
      Blizzard had a ton of sexual harrassment internally that the company didn't care about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Department_of_Fair_Employment_and_Housing_v._Activision_Blizzard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Department_of_Fair_...
      - mpfundstein 5y ago
        alleged
- stickfigure 5y ago
  > It seems (at least anecdotally) that there are a lot of people in tech who may not game anymore The newest, most popular game is "how outraged can I get".
keymone 5y ago
Funny you single out Apple when I would worry about any other producer way more both in terms of climate impact and slave labour.
aczerepinski 5y ago
I deleted all my Blizzard games when they banned somebody for being pro-democracy (Hong Kong). That’s just bonkers ethics coming from a company based in California.
simias 5y ago
I didn't read any "fear of repercussions" in the article, just mostly personal ethical concerns. You're building a strawman here. >Just so you know, I got the new iPhone but I spent a few hours in prayer and penance thinking about climate change and my consumption and carbon and Chinese slave labor before I clicked buy. Prayer and penance notwithstanding, is it such a bad idea to pay more attention to these things?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

itsthecourier 5y ago

i will always miss the abilities tree of diablo 2 and its synergies. it made you think. it made you know your decisions have consequences, you had to plan carefully and stick to the plan. diablo 3 and stuff like blizzard's heroes of the storm are practically games for stupid people, they removed the complexity of carefully choosing skills and made it as simple as possible. god, please bring back complexity, this kind of rpgs were enjoyed by geeks like my and my friends, no need to streamline losing us just trying to become the next fortnite

Jyaif 5y ago

It feels like it was written by a 12 years old. Very off-putting writing style.

vesuvianvenus 5y ago

Diablo lovers... check out Path of Exile II. It's continues in terms of UX, where Diablo 2 left off.

arbitrage 5y ago
.... you can't check out PoE2? There isn't even a playable beta. From their website: "We don't have a release date for Path of Exile 2 yet, but we're unlikely to start a Beta until 2022 at the earliest. In the meantime, we are continuing to release Path of Exile expansions on our regular three-month cycle. "
- vesuvianvenus 5y ago
  nah, look it up on steam. it releases a free expansion pack every season or so.

have_faith 5y ago

> Aesthetically? Yep, Diablo, nailed it. I'm guessing this must mean nailed the D3 aesthetic, and in no way D2. Which makes sense as D3 already looked like a ressed up mobile game.

rjbwork 5y ago

Diablo is unfortunately a lost cause in my eyes. Simplified gameplay, skills, items, etc. I'm a big ARPG fan and am currently enjoying the latest Path of Exile league. I don't see myself returning to the Diablo universe anytime soon.

Thaxll 5y ago
The problemn with PoE is that it's too amateur, yes the skill tree is big but the rest is very not much on part with diablo in term of animation, sounds , muscis, combat feeling, gameplay, ui etc ...
bob1029 5y ago
> Simplified gameplay, skills, items, etc. This is a hard stop for me. If the game is not complex enough to trigger my dopamine loop, I'll just log back into my work PC and get back to coding, or go watch Netflix. I don't even care if a game has sweaty PVP or other competitive aspects. I just want to be challenged in novel ways which result in rewarding outcomes. The more dynamic the game space, the better. I feel like alternative titles like POE provide a far superior "game space" compared to the latest iterations of Diablo, but I haven't been able to find the time to get myself hooked on it yet.

PeterisP 5y ago

The first paragraph question "But I wonder if it’s ethical to play anything from [company], these days?" probably is the most discussion-worthy topic of this article. I'd argue that the answer to that question is "yes", no matter if it's Blizzard or some other company. It's completely ethically valid to boycott a shitty company with shitty leadership and shitty culture (as OP puts it), however, it's also completely ethically valid to not boycott such a company and simply pick the best product. There is no ethical duty to participate in every fight; it's ethically good (and better) to "fight for good" but it's also completely ethically acceptable to not put effort in any one of the near-infinite of those fights - it's only unethical if you're actually harming others or doing evil, and just living your life is not that. Guilt by distant association is an abhorrent concept that should not be validated - using someone's products does not imply supporting the company's policies or leaders/owners personal behavior or political actions. If you want to make a point of ostracising someone, sure, go right ahead, but there's a very high bar to pass to state that it would an ethical requirement for everyone else to participate in that ostracism - IMHO it might be debatable if it would be a an ethical requirement in case of clearly convicted murderers, and even more so in cases which are (a) less severe than murder and (b) the particular culprits less clearly proven.

awild 5y ago
You can however question platforming an entity with such a shitty history or at least contextualise it like in the op.
- slibhb 5y ago
  Is playing a computer game "platforming an entity"? It's really fascinating how these neologisms evolve.
  - awild 5y ago
    No, but recommending it to a lot of people is. Literally.
  - revolvingocelot 5y ago

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

> “Leoric?” So this is the same story as D3? Um… so far, yeah. In fact, I played last night until, at L18, I got ganked by the Skeleton King. And yep, Deckard Cain is there. Oh God why. The Diablo III story is so incredibly bad. They waited all this time to rehash it on mobile? This is why people hate Blizzard. It’s just so lazy to not have at least made a new story and characters instead of retreading the same tired ground. It’s why people screamed when Blizzard announced this game.

codeflo 5y ago
I think the bad writing in D3 is a weird consequence of WoW's success. Either because they hoped to attract part of WoW's audience, or for the simple fact that a lot of Blizzard's staff at the time had also worked on WoW and were more familiar with that style, both Starcraft II and Diablo III suffered from a cartoony art direction and a story that didn't take itself very seriously compared to their predecessors. In Diablo II, Diablo greets you with "Not even death can save you from me", one of the most iconic lines in all of gaming, creepy and to the point. In Diablo III, Diablo holds an entire monologue explaining the boss mechanics, something like, "Now you're trapped in my realm, you can only escape by defeating the shadows, but none have ever managed to do that har har har". You can't get emotionally invested in a world with writing like that.
- ElonMuskrat 5y ago
  Or another theory that all the talent that contributed to great success stories at Blizzard went to better jobs or launched their own indie studio.

sinsterizme 5y ago

I’ve found Grim Dawn to be the best ARPG if you’re looking for something similar to Diablo

marak830 5y ago
Thanks, I'll give it a go.

meibo 5y ago

Don't you guys have phones?

guax 5y ago

Do you guys not have phones?

Shadonototra 5y ago

Why do they want to rewrite history? Here is the reason why people HATE and boycott diablo immortal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkHAlhCvWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkHAlhCvWg

antisthenes 5y ago

> Then, with your right thumb, you bash away at your attacks and spells and health orbs and so on. The big circle down at the very bottom right is your primary attack and, just like regular Diablo, you spend most of your time bang-bang-banging away at it > In practice, it feels… a lot like playing on a PC or Playstation. Hard oof. If the author doesn't see the contradiction there and writes that with a straight face, then I really don't see why I should take any other nonsense they write seriously. Equating mobile controls with mouse/keyboard? Sorry, you shouldn't be writing about computer games.

akmarinov 5y ago

Path of Exile said they’re working on a mobile version 2+ years ago, but I guess that’s dead, since there’s been nothing on it