5 ms·

> Improvement is a function of directed study of chess This is true of so many things. Improvement is proportional to the amount of deliberate, conscious pract

by nojs 5y ago

> Improvement is a function of directed study of chess This is true of so many things. Improvement is proportional to the amount of deliberate, conscious practice, which is more uncomfortable than “game time”. When I used to play chess, I always found short time controls the most fun, but the least useful for long term improvement.

namelosw 5y ago
It seems to be very true for humans to learn things that require practice. Playing video games, playing piano, sport, etc. My interpretation is even though I love those practices, I would still make myself tired from playing and concentrating for too long - after that my standard is downgrading. If I continue, I get used to those lower standards more than I could gain expertise.
john61 5y ago
This seems to also be true for piano playing. Basically Friedrich Gulda said he only practices 3-4 hours a day sitting at the piano. The rest of the day he is sitting in the café thinking about music and piano playing.
- mb_72 5y ago
  Ah ... I think you are onto something with this statement. What's the name of the cafe? /s Commenting as I have heard of fellow musicians sometimes performing almost ritualistic steps or 'cargo cult' emulations of 'famous' musicians to try and replicate their success.
  - krigath 5y ago
    This comment reminds me of the book "Daily Rituals: How Artists Work"
- ternaryoperator 5y ago
  > he only practices 3-4 hours a day only... Deep sigh!
  - injidup 5y ago
    I spend 6 to 8 hours sitting at the computer thinking about C++. 3-4 hours then sitting in a cafe seems like a sweet deal.
    - wirrbel 5y ago
      If I found time at work for 3-4h of concentrated, uninterrupted programming I would be happy.
      - lawn 5y ago
        Even if I have time for more, around 4h of focus is my limit, and after that quality is lost very quickly.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      I’ve found sitting in a cafe (or going for a walk) often allows me to think more productively about code: sometimes the screen is just a distraction.
      - adrianN 5y ago
        For me, most of the time the hard part is not writing the code, but understanding all the code around it so that I figure out where to get my inputs from and not break anything. I can't do that without sitting at the computer and reading the code.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      Assuming you're talking about your job, I'm not sure this is the same as "practicing" C++ for 3-4 hours the way you would practice piano. For us programmers there's usually no difference between practice and "the real stuff" unless you consider side projects as practice but that's "outside" our job.
      - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
        Unfortunately, for us as a profession we still haven't yet figured out what "practice" looks like. The closest we've done is just "more game time". The closest we've found is when learning a new tech doing a small project. But that is learning a tech and distinctly different from "practicing" the craft of programming.
- stef25 5y ago
  Regarding "thinking" about music ... I recently took up playing drums again after a 20 year hiatus. During those 20 years I was never able to stop tapping rhythms on things (to my own and everyone around me's great frustration). Every song I listened to I couldn't not imagine playing that drum track. That must have kept those neural pathways alive. Now that I'm finally playing again, I feel like I'm back to my previous levels, or even better, after just 3 months of playing 1x week. Having said that, there's also the 10,000 hours thing.
lordnacho 5y ago
This is very true. I've never played RTS games seriously, so every time I play I just feel naked. I can figure out eventually how to build a base and crawl the tech tree, but I've always felt what I would really need is to just sit there and study what all the units are, common tactics, and videos of other people playing. Of course like with sports the fun thing is playing a game, not practicing for it, so that's what ends up happening.
- tinco 5y ago
  In expert level RTS play, if you take even a tenth of a second to think about any decision anytime during the first 15 minutes you will most likely lose the game. After that it gets more interesting but many games don't last that long. The thing is with most computer games (I suppose games in general) is that you not only have to learn the rules of the game to get better, you must also study and practice the current best strategies to even stand a chance.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
f_allwein 5y ago
Related book: Talent is overrated https://geoffcolvin.com/books/talent-is-overrated/ https://geoffcolvin.com/books/talent-is-overrated/
- borroka 5y ago
  [I read the book years ago] Anyone who has been able to do anything measurable at a high level knows that talent is underrated. But "Talent is Underrated" would sell very few copies: who wants to have their hopes buried under a ton of reality?

by nojs 5y ago

namelosw 5y ago

It seems to be very true for humans to learn things that require practice. Playing video games, playing piano, sport, etc. My interpretation is even though I love those practices, I would still make myself tired from playing and concentrating for too long - after that my standard is downgrading. If I continue, I get used to those lower standards more than I could gain expertise.

john61 5y ago

This seems to also be true for piano playing. Basically Friedrich Gulda said he only practices 3-4 hours a day sitting at the piano. The rest of the day he is sitting in the café thinking about music and piano playing.

mb_72 5y ago
Ah ... I think you are onto something with this statement. What's the name of the cafe? /s Commenting as I have heard of fellow musicians sometimes performing almost ritualistic steps or 'cargo cult' emulations of 'famous' musicians to try and replicate their success.
- krigath 5y ago
  This comment reminds me of the book "Daily Rituals: How Artists Work"
ternaryoperator 5y ago
> he only practices 3-4 hours a day only... Deep sigh!
- injidup 5y ago
  I spend 6 to 8 hours sitting at the computer thinking about C++. 3-4 hours then sitting in a cafe seems like a sweet deal.
  - wirrbel 5y ago
    If I found time at work for 3-4h of concentrated, uninterrupted programming I would be happy.
    - lawn 5y ago
      Even if I have time for more, around 4h of focus is my limit, and after that quality is lost very quickly.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    I’ve found sitting in a cafe (or going for a walk) often allows me to think more productively about code: sometimes the screen is just a distraction.
    - adrianN 5y ago
      For me, most of the time the hard part is not writing the code, but understanding all the code around it so that I figure out where to get my inputs from and not break anything. I can't do that without sitting at the computer and reading the code.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    Assuming you're talking about your job, I'm not sure this is the same as "practicing" C++ for 3-4 hours the way you would practice piano. For us programmers there's usually no difference between practice and "the real stuff" unless you consider side projects as practice but that's "outside" our job.
    - BoiledCabbage 5y ago
      Unfortunately, for us as a profession we still haven't yet figured out what "practice" looks like. The closest we've done is just "more game time". The closest we've found is when learning a new tech doing a small project. But that is learning a tech and distinctly different from "practicing" the craft of programming.
stef25 5y ago
Regarding "thinking" about music ... I recently took up playing drums again after a 20 year hiatus. During those 20 years I was never able to stop tapping rhythms on things (to my own and everyone around me's great frustration). Every song I listened to I couldn't not imagine playing that drum track. That must have kept those neural pathways alive. Now that I'm finally playing again, I feel like I'm back to my previous levels, or even better, after just 3 months of playing 1x week. Having said that, there's also the 10,000 hours thing.

lordnacho 5y ago

This is very true. I've never played RTS games seriously, so every time I play I just feel naked. I can figure out eventually how to build a base and crawl the tech tree, but I've always felt what I would really need is to just sit there and study what all the units are, common tactics, and videos of other people playing. Of course like with sports the fun thing is playing a game, not practicing for it, so that's what ends up happening.

tinco 5y ago
In expert level RTS play, if you take even a tenth of a second to think about any decision anytime during the first 15 minutes you will most likely lose the game. After that it gets more interesting but many games don't last that long. The thing is with most computer games (I suppose games in general) is that you not only have to learn the rules of the game to get better, you must also study and practice the current best strategies to even stand a chance.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

f_allwein 5y ago

Related book: Talent is overrated https://geoffcolvin.com/books/talent-is-overrated/ https://geoffcolvin.com/books/talent-is-overrated/

borroka 5y ago
[I read the book years ago] Anyone who has been able to do anything measurable at a high level knows that talent is underrated. But "Talent is Underrated" would sell very few copies: who wants to have their hopes buried under a ton of reality?