12 ms·

Young people are leaving their jobs in record numbers and not going back

100 points by batmaniam 5y ago

Tangokat 5y ago
I think an interesting datapoint in this discussion is that the second fastest growing subreddit (behind /r/announcements) is /r/antiwork. There seems to be pretty strong sentiment out there that the minimum wage American worker is not being compensated correctly. The market is supposed to fix this by adding wage growth and maybe it will.
- chii 5y ago
  > The market is supposed to fix this by adding wage growth and maybe it will. it will, if the lack of workers in jobs continue. Unless there's some other force at work preventing the market from correcting...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > There seems to be pretty strong sentiment out there that the minimum wage American worker is not being compensated correctly. Seems to be? It has been obvious for at least 30+ years (my life). The upper middle and top deciles of the US have had a really good run for the past few decades on the backs of the lower middle and bottom deciles of the US. ACA was probably the first legislation I saw to help those are the bottom (i.e. a wealth transfer).
nine_zeros 5y ago
Americans have an incredible leverage. The dollar goes far in other countries. And young people are realizing that. It's far too easy to work 6 months, save 10k and then live the next 6 months in another country for cheap. There is absolutely no reason to work for abusive companies and psychopathic bosses. If you are sick of your job, quit. There are more jobs available than ever in the history of America.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  I don't think that is the reason. I think they are just tired of working abusive jobs and struggling than that not work and still struggle. There is a shortage of social safety nets though so anyone thinking of quitting without some savings please make sure you have a plan. Sometimes just getting temporary short term assistance can be a full time job in itself, and if you had a descent job before be prepared to have to interview for entry level crap jobs to keep your assistance. Unemployment isn't like it was at the start of the pandemic. They took all the supports away while COVID numbers are still high.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  I think Americans are realizing they have more leverage than they thought they had, collectively. We’ll see how long it lasts though.
- deltree7 5y ago
  or they are incredibly short-sighted and assume they can manage to survive the next 60 years with whatever meagre savings that they may have and whatever skills that is relevant in 2021 is still relevant 10 years from now. If you are in your 20s, you think you rule the world (Thanks to validation from Social Media). But those 20 year olds will become 30y and they will be the 'boomers' The cycle will turn, employment will become harder and 'great resignation' may come back to bite them. I'm not saying that this might happen. But to categorically say that "This is the way" is incredibly short-sighted
  - RexM 5y ago
    I didn’t see anything in the post you’re replying to saying categorically “This is the way.”
    - deltree7 5y ago
      My posts are async thoughts that I write for myself mostly using a post/comment as a jump point. I know it isn't the right thread etiquette (and I always get downvoted), Internet blogging/commenting is just a stream of thoughts
rsj_hn 5y ago
This piece is a good exemplar of the problems with modern journalism. First, let's take a look at the statistics cited in the piece which support the main thesis (the whole article is built on two facts): * highest quit rate since .... 2019! 2019, wow, that was like ancient history. That makes this historic! * 14 million (what a big number!) of 18-34 not in labor force. Isn't that number so big? OMG, look at how big that number is! Whereas the data says both the total not in labor force number and the "do not want job" number has declined for all groups except those 55 and over![1] where it has slightly increased. Actually the WSJ got this right when it said the labor story of the day is people (primarily small business owners) taking early retirement. But then again, that story was written by an experienced journalist. That's it. That's all the labor force participation statistics she cites in support of this "Great Resignation". The rest are a series of grievances about how bad people have it and how they're really not gonna take it anymore! Well, OK, then. So how could someone write a story with the exact opposite conclusion of what the labor force statistics say? Why would someone think lying about a "Great Resignation" is responsible, objective journalism? The problem with these type of activist, grievance-based, emptional pieces is that they are not news (describing how the world is) they are advocacy (describing how the world should be). And when you blur those lines, truth and engagement with reality is the first casualty. Raisa obviously thinks a great resignation is warranted and so just pretends that it's happening. As if her own intuition and circle of friends were more reliable than labor force statistics. So she disengages with the real world and starts pretending that it is actually occurring. She is LARPing the news! And you often see this on the part of frustrated activists. The clues are phrases like "people are starting to wake up", without any actual data. It's perfectly understandable that this happens - lots of people have been secluded, isolated, and are beginning to lose it - but when it seeps into news reporting, it's very dangerous. [1] https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm
- wolverine876 5y ago
  Almost all of the parent has no foundation. Describing the mindset of the author, with no evidence, is incredible (or, not credible). It's a 'good exemplar' of criticism that, most of all, fits perfectly in the cultural trends and moment, pressing all the 'right' buttons, triggering all the currently well-conditioned emotions, like a great piece of marketing.
wolverine876 5y ago
If people aren't working, they need money from other sources. Where is it coming from? Is there any serious research on that question? If it's spending savings, then the effect is temporary - savings will run out and labor supply will increase again. If it's spending less, we should see other negative economic effects. If it's working for themselves, then what are the economic implications there? What is the economic impact of a major shift to new forms of employment and work? Is it sustainable? > The burnout of startup culture is common The article describes many people starting their own businesses - that is startup culture.
- bool3max 5y ago
  > Savings will run out and labor supply will increase again. Yet, before the pandemic there seemed to have been a plethora of articles proclaiming that young people are living paycheck to paycheck more than ever before. So where are those savings coming from?
- Jorge1o1 5y ago
  >Savings will run out and labor supply will increase again. This is my pet theory. One dynamic that I think could be interesting is if enough people exit the labor force, and hold out for enough time, would it force employers to make concessions in order to re-attract laborers? I already see this happening with always-remote or hybrid being thrown around as a perk in the “Who is Hiring” threads and on LinkedIn. Maybe wage growth is finally on the horizon?
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    There's also the other side of the story... some people are actually trying to get a job, and are rejected (or more often ghosted) by companies that complain alot about not being able to get workers.
  - Mountain_Skies 5y ago
    If remote work is still seen as an employer provided perk, the employer still doesn't get it and likely will do something stupid just as soon as they can.
olivermarks 5y ago
Worth noting that Time is owned by Benioff and that he is a central 'digital' figure at the DAVOS nexus.
tamaharbor 5y ago
I guess the unemployment insurance gig works out pretty good. At least for a while.
- sagarm 5y ago
  You can't collect UI if you quit voluntarily.
  - bagacrap 5y ago
    i don't think it's hard to game the system. Recently, unemployment checks were sent out of country to foreign scammers, the identities of incarcerated felons were used to make fraudulent claims (successfully)... so i can't imagine it's much effort to fool the agencies involved
    - SwanRonson 5y ago
      Based on anecdotal evidence it seems that you’re on the right track. California EDD was defrauded for millions and it was so embarrassingly bad that they shut down the system to many users. This forced them to live off of savings/family and live more frugally for months. Recently I’ve heard of many people being sent checks (back pay) for up to ~$10,000. It may not be that they’re still on UI but that they recently received lump sums that were designed to hold them over for months without working.
giantg2 5y ago
A lot of it seems to be the crushing loss of hope. I absolutely hate my job. The pay is great compared to the service industry, but it also seems I'm making no progress for retirement. I'm wasting my life doing stuff I hate for a wage that gives the illusion that I'll one day be able to do something enjoyable.
giords 5y ago
I come from Italy, the lady described in the article is not going to find better working conditions in Rome, than the ones she escaped. Just better gelato overall.

100 points by batmaniam 5y ago

I think an interesting datapoint in this discussion is that the second fastest growing subreddit (behind /r/announcements) is /r/antiwork. There seems to be pretty strong sentiment out there that the minimum wage American worker is not being compensated correctly. The market is supposed to fix this by adding wage growth and maybe it will.

chii 5y ago
> The market is supposed to fix this by adding wage growth and maybe it will. it will, if the lack of workers in jobs continue. Unless there's some other force at work preventing the market from correcting...
lotsofpulp 5y ago
> There seems to be pretty strong sentiment out there that the minimum wage American worker is not being compensated correctly. Seems to be? It has been obvious for at least 30+ years (my life). The upper middle and top deciles of the US have had a really good run for the past few decades on the backs of the lower middle and bottom deciles of the US. ACA was probably the first legislation I saw to help those are the bottom (i.e. a wealth transfer).

nine_zeros 5y ago

Americans have an incredible leverage. The dollar goes far in other countries. And young people are realizing that. It's far too easy to work 6 months, save 10k and then live the next 6 months in another country for cheap. There is absolutely no reason to work for abusive companies and psychopathic bosses. If you are sick of your job, quit. There are more jobs available than ever in the history of America.

encryptluks2 5y ago
I don't think that is the reason. I think they are just tired of working abusive jobs and struggling than that not work and still struggle. There is a shortage of social safety nets though so anyone thinking of quitting without some savings please make sure you have a plan. Sometimes just getting temporary short term assistance can be a full time job in itself, and if you had a descent job before be prepared to have to interview for entry level crap jobs to keep your assistance. Unemployment isn't like it was at the start of the pandemic. They took all the supports away while COVID numbers are still high.
halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
I think Americans are realizing they have more leverage than they thought they had, collectively. We’ll see how long it lasts though.
deltree7 5y ago
or they are incredibly short-sighted and assume they can manage to survive the next 60 years with whatever meagre savings that they may have and whatever skills that is relevant in 2021 is still relevant 10 years from now. If you are in your 20s, you think you rule the world (Thanks to validation from Social Media). But those 20 year olds will become 30y and they will be the 'boomers' The cycle will turn, employment will become harder and 'great resignation' may come back to bite them. I'm not saying that this might happen. But to categorically say that "This is the way" is incredibly short-sighted
- RexM 5y ago
  I didn’t see anything in the post you’re replying to saying categorically “This is the way.”
  - deltree7 5y ago
    My posts are async thoughts that I write for myself mostly using a post/comment as a jump point. I know it isn't the right thread etiquette (and I always get downvoted), Internet blogging/commenting is just a stream of thoughts

rsj_hn 5y ago

This piece is a good exemplar of the problems with modern journalism. First, let's take a look at the statistics cited in the piece which support the main thesis (the whole article is built on two facts): * highest quit rate since .... 2019! 2019, wow, that was like ancient history. That makes this historic! * 14 million (what a big number!) of 18-34 not in labor force. Isn't that number so big? OMG, look at how big that number is! Whereas the data says both the total not in labor force number and the "do not want job" number has declined for all groups except those 55 and over![1] where it has slightly increased. Actually the WSJ got this right when it said the labor story of the day is people (primarily small business owners) taking early retirement. But then again, that story was written by an experienced journalist. That's it. That's all the labor force participation statistics she cites in support of this "Great Resignation". The rest are a series of grievances about how bad people have it and how they're really not gonna take it anymore! Well, OK, then. So how could someone write a story with the exact opposite conclusion of what the labor force statistics say? Why would someone think lying about a "Great Resignation" is responsible, objective journalism? The problem with these type of activist, grievance-based, emptional pieces is that they are not news (describing how the world is) they are advocacy (describing how the world should be). And when you blur those lines, truth and engagement with reality is the first casualty. Raisa obviously thinks a great resignation is warranted and so just pretends that it's happening. As if her own intuition and circle of friends were more reliable than labor force statistics. So she disengages with the real world and starts pretending that it is actually occurring. She is LARPing the news! And you often see this on the part of frustrated activists. The clues are phrases like "people are starting to wake up", without any actual data. It's perfectly understandable that this happens - lots of people have been secluded, isolated, and are beginning to lose it - but when it seeps into news reporting, it's very dangerous. [1] https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm

wolverine876 5y ago
Almost all of the parent has no foundation. Describing the mindset of the author, with no evidence, is incredible (or, not credible). It's a 'good exemplar' of criticism that, most of all, fits perfectly in the cultural trends and moment, pressing all the 'right' buttons, triggering all the currently well-conditioned emotions, like a great piece of marketing.

wolverine876 5y ago

If people aren't working, they need money from other sources. Where is it coming from? Is there any serious research on that question? If it's spending savings, then the effect is temporary - savings will run out and labor supply will increase again. If it's spending less, we should see other negative economic effects. If it's working for themselves, then what are the economic implications there? What is the economic impact of a major shift to new forms of employment and work? Is it sustainable? > The burnout of startup culture is common The article describes many people starting their own businesses - that is startup culture.

bool3max 5y ago
> Savings will run out and labor supply will increase again. Yet, before the pandemic there seemed to have been a plethora of articles proclaiming that young people are living paycheck to paycheck more than ever before. So where are those savings coming from?
Jorge1o1 5y ago
>Savings will run out and labor supply will increase again. This is my pet theory. One dynamic that I think could be interesting is if enough people exit the labor force, and hold out for enough time, would it force employers to make concessions in order to re-attract laborers? I already see this happening with always-remote or hybrid being thrown around as a perk in the “Who is Hiring” threads and on LinkedIn. Maybe wage growth is finally on the horizon?
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  There's also the other side of the story... some people are actually trying to get a job, and are rejected (or more often ghosted) by companies that complain alot about not being able to get workers.
- Mountain_Skies 5y ago
  If remote work is still seen as an employer provided perk, the employer still doesn't get it and likely will do something stupid just as soon as they can.

olivermarks 5y ago

Worth noting that Time is owned by Benioff and that he is a central 'digital' figure at the DAVOS nexus.

tamaharbor 5y ago

I guess the unemployment insurance gig works out pretty good. At least for a while.

sagarm 5y ago
You can't collect UI if you quit voluntarily.
- bagacrap 5y ago
  i don't think it's hard to game the system. Recently, unemployment checks were sent out of country to foreign scammers, the identities of incarcerated felons were used to make fraudulent claims (successfully)... so i can't imagine it's much effort to fool the agencies involved
  - SwanRonson 5y ago
    Based on anecdotal evidence it seems that you’re on the right track. California EDD was defrauded for millions and it was so embarrassingly bad that they shut down the system to many users. This forced them to live off of savings/family and live more frugally for months. Recently I’ve heard of many people being sent checks (back pay) for up to ~$10,000. It may not be that they’re still on UI but that they recently received lump sums that were designed to hold them over for months without working.

giantg2 5y ago

A lot of it seems to be the crushing loss of hope. I absolutely hate my job. The pay is great compared to the service industry, but it also seems I'm making no progress for retirement. I'm wasting my life doing stuff I hate for a wage that gives the illusion that I'll one day be able to do something enjoyable.

giords 5y ago

I come from Italy, the lady described in the article is not going to find better working conditions in Rome, than the ones she escaped. Just better gelato overall.