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> The shape of the metaverse will be formed by a new generation Even this begs the question. Why do people take it as a given that there will be a "metaverse"

> The shape of the metaverse will be formed by a new generation Even this begs the question. Why do people take it as a given that there will be a "metaverse"? I mean, personally, I think that a genuinely interoperable, decentralized VR/AR infrastructure would be pretty neat—I have no idea if it would solve any specific real-world problems, but "decentralized and interoperable" is a world better than the systems we've got in the current internet. But...that's just the thing. Where's the incentive to make it genuinely interoperable and decentralized, especially for a company like Facebook? They want things to be under their control, so they can mine them for data and sell ads on them.

greggh 5y ago
It does not beg the question. It raises the question. Any form of argument where the conclusion is assumed in one of the premises. Many people use the phrase "begging the question" incorrectly when they use it to mean, "prompts one to ask the question". That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning. Logical Form: Claim X assumes X is true. Therefore, claim X is true.
- sobellian 5y ago
  Parent used it correctly - "Why do people take it as a given that there will be a 'metaverse'?" He's arguing that these "people" are assuming their conclusion when they state that the metaverse will be shaped by a new generation.
gfodor 5y ago
The idea of a metaverse of some form or another falls out as a consequence of an assumption that there will be devices people wear that allow software to fully override their visual and auditory experience. These kinds of devices in their most rudimentary form have already arrived for experiences that do not incorporate the physical world (or other people in the physical world), but the ones that fully "close the loop" on physical reality being incorporated into the rendering pipeline will arrive in 2022. There are no great incentives for Meta or whoever to make their vision of the metaverse align with the openness of the web or Internet, other than perhaps a desire by their leader to do something good for the world to cement his legacy. So this is why it is important smart people work on providing alternative visions, as oppose to writing off the entire thing while the future arrives and we're left subject to corporations because the nay-sayers didn't understand what was about to happen. (See also: the iPhone)
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  > There are no great incentives for Meta or whoever to make their vision of the metaverse align with the openness of the web or Internet, other than perhaps a desire by their leader to do something good for the world to cement his legacy. Wow, have you ever seen Mark Zuckerberg talking, or noticed any of his actions? To imagine he would drive Facebook to do something out of "a desire to do something good for the world to cement his legacy" is comically outside any realistic possibility.
  - gfodor 5y ago
    I was talking about companies in general, and wasn’t suggesting these were likely possibilities for any of them.

greggh 5y ago

It does not beg the question. It raises the question. Any form of argument where the conclusion is assumed in one of the premises. Many people use the phrase "begging the question" incorrectly when they use it to mean, "prompts one to ask the question". That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning. Logical Form: Claim X assumes X is true. Therefore, claim X is true.

sobellian 5y ago
Parent used it correctly - "Why do people take it as a given that there will be a 'metaverse'?" He's arguing that these "people" are assuming their conclusion when they state that the metaverse will be shaped by a new generation.

gfodor 5y ago

The idea of a metaverse of some form or another falls out as a consequence of an assumption that there will be devices people wear that allow software to fully override their visual and auditory experience. These kinds of devices in their most rudimentary form have already arrived for experiences that do not incorporate the physical world (or other people in the physical world), but the ones that fully "close the loop" on physical reality being incorporated into the rendering pipeline will arrive in 2022. There are no great incentives for Meta or whoever to make their vision of the metaverse align with the openness of the web or Internet, other than perhaps a desire by their leader to do something good for the world to cement his legacy. So this is why it is important smart people work on providing alternative visions, as oppose to writing off the entire thing while the future arrives and we're left subject to corporations because the nay-sayers didn't understand what was about to happen. (See also: the iPhone)

tsimionescu 5y ago
> There are no great incentives for Meta or whoever to make their vision of the metaverse align with the openness of the web or Internet, other than perhaps a desire by their leader to do something good for the world to cement his legacy. Wow, have you ever seen Mark Zuckerberg talking, or noticed any of his actions? To imagine he would drive Facebook to do something out of "a desire to do something good for the world to cement his legacy" is comically outside any realistic possibility.
- gfodor 5y ago
  I was talking about companies in general, and wasn’t suggesting these were likely possibilities for any of them.