11 ms·

This thread feels like 1860's consilium on what future will look like 500 years later. The shape of the metaverse will be formed by a new generation, not by old

by wruza 5y ago

This thread feels like 1860's consilium on what future will look like 500 years later. The shape of the metaverse will be formed by a new generation, not by older guys (and not by fortnite addicts who play by the rules of the former) who know nothing better than drive a fancy “car” on the “road”, as if roads or a concept of physical movement or the euclidean rule would still be there for common use and not for museums. Virtual worlds up to date, like second life, were mostly just stupid copies of “real life”, which was designed after some physical limitations, or fantasy worlds of parallel earth-likes with a limited magic. If the only limitation of metaverse is Code and Content, and if that would be much easier to create, then in a blink of an eye it will turn into something absolutely inconceivable to mercedes benz drivers. What really is bullshit, is lack of imagination in people and a shitload of thought inertia. Personally, it feels like the article author has never ever been in the internet, confining themselves at a small circle of “social” networks bs. Those will live in an exact copy of their current environment, paying to bigcorps with their work hours to achieve “expensive” toys, to impress similar narrow-minded guys. I’ve seen second life at its peak, and this is exactly what they were doing there.

poetaster 5y ago
I write poems. I write music. I write code. I build books. I play songs. I compiled this client.
verve_rat 5y ago
Without the "concept of physical movement" how will "food" get to your "house"?
- wruza 5y ago
  Are we "talking" about 2040 or 2140?
  - Jasper_ 5y ago
    I'm not going to be alive in 2140 but I'd bet we won't have broken the laws of thermodynamics by either 2040 or 2140.
  - JoyrexJ9 5y ago
    By 2140 humans no longer require food?
    - hansel_der 5y ago
      sure they'll require sustenence but i highly doubt that our definition of food will apply
    - acheron 5y ago
      That seems soon. Other estimates say that won’t be true until the year 4545. https://genius.com/Zager-and-evans-in-the-year-2525-lyrics https://genius.com/Zager-and-evans-in-the-year-2525-lyrics
- agumonkey 5y ago
  quantum emergence
- verisimi 5y ago
  'Food' will be piped directly into your veins, via the food pipe in your 'home cubicle'. Lol :) And will then exit, captured and recycled! Welcome to the future!
Oddskar 5y ago
I read this three times and I'm still not sure what your point is.
- cromka 5y ago
  That we, "the old folks", just don't get it, limited by having passed our "exploratory" phase and well into "exploitation" phase (something I read here in HN the other day). And they may have a point: after all, "the old folks" 30 years ago were saying the same thing about the Internet, well into 2000s.
  - civilized 5y ago
    Oh come on. Usenet in the 1980s was full of people in their 30s, 40s, and beyond. Sure, some people didn't "get" the internet, but millions of demographically similar people were getting value out of it. That isn't happening, and won't happen, with this metaverse BS. And if it does, attentive people of all ages will see it coming many years in advance.
    - machiaweliczny 5y ago
      I've read a lot of game reviews on VR and was surprised about demographics. Lots of older (40+) people there. Anyone has more reliable stats? I personally feel that hardware need to be next-gen as I am nauseus but would be happy to have discord alternative to play in VR. Imagine drawing board, fake cinema, sharing games, arranging common space minecraft-like. I think this will work. You login after work and do creative shit with buddies. This is how it works for me now but we have discord and own game that we work on. Happy to upgrade XP when new hardware comes.
      - redisman 5y ago
        That demographic makes sense. If you’re 40 you grew up with the birth of video games, you read the sci-fi and the early hype and failure of multiple VR products along get decades and you have a bunch of disposable income
danaris 5y ago
> The shape of the metaverse will be formed by a new generation Even this begs the question. Why do people take it as a given that there will be a "metaverse"? I mean, personally, I think that a genuinely interoperable, decentralized VR/AR infrastructure would be pretty neat—I have no idea if it would solve any specific real-world problems, but "decentralized and interoperable" is a world better than the systems we've got in the current internet. But...that's just the thing. Where's the incentive to make it genuinely interoperable and decentralized, especially for a company like Facebook? They want things to be under their control, so they can mine them for data and sell ads on them.
- greggh 5y ago
  It does not beg the question. It raises the question. Any form of argument where the conclusion is assumed in one of the premises. Many people use the phrase "begging the question" incorrectly when they use it to mean, "prompts one to ask the question". That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning. Logical Form: Claim X assumes X is true. Therefore, claim X is true.
  - sobellian 5y ago
    Parent used it correctly - "Why do people take it as a given that there will be a 'metaverse'?" He's arguing that these "people" are assuming their conclusion when they state that the metaverse will be shaped by a new generation.
- gfodor 5y ago
  The idea of a metaverse of some form or another falls out as a consequence of an assumption that there will be devices people wear that allow software to fully override their visual and auditory experience. These kinds of devices in their most rudimentary form have already arrived for experiences that do not incorporate the physical world (or other people in the physical world), but the ones that fully "close the loop" on physical reality being incorporated into the rendering pipeline will arrive in 2022. There are no great incentives for Meta or whoever to make their vision of the metaverse align with the openness of the web or Internet, other than perhaps a desire by their leader to do something good for the world to cement his legacy. So this is why it is important smart people work on providing alternative visions, as oppose to writing off the entire thing while the future arrives and we're left subject to corporations because the nay-sayers didn't understand what was about to happen. (See also: the iPhone)

by wruza 5y ago

poetaster 5y ago

I write poems. I write music. I write code. I build books. I play songs. I compiled this client.

verve_rat 5y ago

Without the "concept of physical movement" how will "food" get to your "house"?

wruza 5y ago
Are we "talking" about 2040 or 2140?
- Jasper_ 5y ago
  I'm not going to be alive in 2140 but I'd bet we won't have broken the laws of thermodynamics by either 2040 or 2140.
- JoyrexJ9 5y ago
  By 2140 humans no longer require food?
  - hansel_der 5y ago
    sure they'll require sustenence but i highly doubt that our definition of food will apply
  - acheron 5y ago
    That seems soon. Other estimates say that won’t be true until the year 4545. https://genius.com/Zager-and-evans-in-the-year-2525-lyrics https://genius.com/Zager-and-evans-in-the-year-2525-lyrics
agumonkey 5y ago
quantum emergence
verisimi 5y ago
'Food' will be piped directly into your veins, via the food pipe in your 'home cubicle'. Lol :) And will then exit, captured and recycled! Welcome to the future!

Oddskar 5y ago

I read this three times and I'm still not sure what your point is.

cromka 5y ago
That we, "the old folks", just don't get it, limited by having passed our "exploratory" phase and well into "exploitation" phase (something I read here in HN the other day). And they may have a point: after all, "the old folks" 30 years ago were saying the same thing about the Internet, well into 2000s.
- civilized 5y ago
  Oh come on. Usenet in the 1980s was full of people in their 30s, 40s, and beyond. Sure, some people didn't "get" the internet, but millions of demographically similar people were getting value out of it. That isn't happening, and won't happen, with this metaverse BS. And if it does, attentive people of all ages will see it coming many years in advance.
  - machiaweliczny 5y ago
    I've read a lot of game reviews on VR and was surprised about demographics. Lots of older (40+) people there. Anyone has more reliable stats? I personally feel that hardware need to be next-gen as I am nauseus but would be happy to have discord alternative to play in VR. Imagine drawing board, fake cinema, sharing games, arranging common space minecraft-like. I think this will work. You login after work and do creative shit with buddies. This is how it works for me now but we have discord and own game that we work on. Happy to upgrade XP when new hardware comes.
    - redisman 5y ago
      That demographic makes sense. If you’re 40 you grew up with the birth of video games, you read the sci-fi and the early hype and failure of multiple VR products along get decades and you have a bunch of disposable income

danaris 5y ago

> The shape of the metaverse will be formed by a new generation Even this begs the question. Why do people take it as a given that there will be a "metaverse"? I mean, personally, I think that a genuinely interoperable, decentralized VR/AR infrastructure would be pretty neat—I have no idea if it would solve any specific real-world problems, but "decentralized and interoperable" is a world better than the systems we've got in the current internet. But...that's just the thing. Where's the incentive to make it genuinely interoperable and decentralized, especially for a company like Facebook? They want things to be under their control, so they can mine them for data and sell ads on them.

greggh 5y ago
It does not beg the question. It raises the question. Any form of argument where the conclusion is assumed in one of the premises. Many people use the phrase "begging the question" incorrectly when they use it to mean, "prompts one to ask the question". That is NOT the correct usage. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning. Logical Form: Claim X assumes X is true. Therefore, claim X is true.
- sobellian 5y ago
  Parent used it correctly - "Why do people take it as a given that there will be a 'metaverse'?" He's arguing that these "people" are assuming their conclusion when they state that the metaverse will be shaped by a new generation.
gfodor 5y ago
The idea of a metaverse of some form or another falls out as a consequence of an assumption that there will be devices people wear that allow software to fully override their visual and auditory experience. These kinds of devices in their most rudimentary form have already arrived for experiences that do not incorporate the physical world (or other people in the physical world), but the ones that fully "close the loop" on physical reality being incorporated into the rendering pipeline will arrive in 2022. There are no great incentives for Meta or whoever to make their vision of the metaverse align with the openness of the web or Internet, other than perhaps a desire by their leader to do something good for the world to cement his legacy. So this is why it is important smart people work on providing alternative visions, as oppose to writing off the entire thing while the future arrives and we're left subject to corporations because the nay-sayers didn't understand what was about to happen. (See also: the iPhone)