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You think owners of EV cars don't care about reliability? They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only ge

by rsj_hn 5y ago

You think owners of EV cars don't care about reliability? They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer. A rock solid EV that doesn't need a lot of repairs, and when it does, is simple/cheap to repair would be a huge win for EV buyers.

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
> They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't an EV thing, it's a Tesla thing.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Are there any major non Tesla EVs in the US? I am not into cars, but I can only assume the Lead/Volt/whatever else out there is bad quality or has some other drawback that causes them to basically be non existent on the roads.
  - adventured 5y ago
    > Are there any major non Tesla EVs in the US? A few. Chevrolet will sell ~30,000 EV units this year in the US. And this is getting some attention: https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-euv https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-euv Chevy needs to get that price down to $25k-$26k (their Trax ICE vehicle that the Bolt EUV looks like is $21k base). The Ford Mustang EV will sell 20k units this year, or just over that. The Volkswagen ID.4 will sell maybe 13k-14k units this year. Nissan Leaf 10k units; Audi EVs 8k-9k units; Hyundai EVs 8k-9k units; Porsche Taycan 8k-9k units (the Taycan is now outselling the 911 in the US market).
  - mikestew 5y ago
    If you're not into cars, I doubt you'd recognize a Chevy Bolt if it came up and tapped you on the hind end. Hell, I'm not only "into" cars, I bought one of the first Nissan Leafs, so I know my electric cars. And I have to take a second look to make sure it's a Bolt and not a Chevy Spark. Even the new Leafs aren't the odd-looking, bug-eyed beasts they used to be, and look almost normal these days. So unless you've actually been looking, it's likely the body styles just haven't stood out enough for you to notice.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Assuming the car says "Leaf" or "Volt" on the back, I would have noticed. And I have seen a few of them, just far, far fewer than Teslas. The drastic difference in how often I see those makes me think there is something wrong with the value proposition though to make them so uncompetitive with Teslas.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    https://electrek.co/2021/02/16/tesla-owns-electric-car-market-us/ https://electrek.co/2021/02/16/tesla-owns-electric-car-marke... About 79% of EVs in the US are Tesla. They exist, but Tesla certainly absolutely dominates the market. The major drawback to other brands has many facets: - Reputation for low range. The first Nissan Leaf made in 2011 had an EPA range of only 73 miles. In 2016, they started giving a bigger battery, but it still only had a paltry 107 mile range. It wasn't until 2019 that they started offering a battery with a 226 mile range, but by then, the reputation as a short-range EV was essentially set in stone. - Slow charging speed. Teslas can charge at up to a whopping 250 kW, which can grant 75 miles of range in only 5 minutes. Meanwhile, the Leaf only supported up to 50 kW until 2019, and even now only does 100 kW. - Lack of charging infrastructure. This is related to the previous note. If you go to a site like PlugShare.com, you can see TONS of chargers in any metro area, but the problem is, the extreme majority of them are J-1772 plugs that charge at <10 kW. At that speed, it takes an hour to get just 30 miles of range. All that is compounded by the fact that car dealerships are often disincentivized to sell EVs. Dealerships make a significant portion of their money in the repair and maintenance bays. Since EVs require far less maintenance, and so far are proving far more reliable, dealerships don't want to sell them.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      Lucid is currently the one with the longest range ( 520 miles). They are starting deliveries this week. They were a battery innovator and supplier for formula-e and now started they own car production.
  - atombender 5y ago
    The Kia e-Niro is fantastic, at a fraction of the price of a Tesla. It's been so popular that it's been selling out in a lot of places. I also hear good things about the Hyundai Kona, which is quite similar in terms of build and features. (They share a bunch of tech, I believe.) Volkswagen's newest model, ID.4, is now being sold in the US. It's great. The Chevy Bolt is not the latest tech, but I hear a lot of people are happy with it. In Europe, of course, the variety is much greater: In addition to the above, you also have the Peugot e-208, Nissan Leaf, Opel Corsa-e, Škoda Enyaq, Ford e-Mach, Audi e-tron, Jaguar I-PACE, Polestar, etc.
neogodless 5y ago
You read something into my comment that I simply didn't say. What I did say: > It's a key market advantage they are about to lose. Toyota has a key market advantage among ICE power trains. They do not have a key market advantage with electric power trains. (Though they should, given their decades of Prius production.)
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  Their market advantage is in manufacturing. They make quality products. Honda makes better, more reliable engines. But Toyota is great at manufacturing.

by rsj_hn 5y ago

Sohcahtoa82 5y ago

> They are even in a worse spot, needing to pay $1000 for a door handle failure because they can only get all their service from the dealer Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't an EV thing, it's a Tesla thing.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Are there any major non Tesla EVs in the US? I am not into cars, but I can only assume the Lead/Volt/whatever else out there is bad quality or has some other drawback that causes them to basically be non existent on the roads.
- adventured 5y ago
  > Are there any major non Tesla EVs in the US? A few. Chevrolet will sell ~30,000 EV units this year in the US. And this is getting some attention: https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-euv https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/bolt-euv Chevy needs to get that price down to $25k-$26k (their Trax ICE vehicle that the Bolt EUV looks like is $21k base). The Ford Mustang EV will sell 20k units this year, or just over that. The Volkswagen ID.4 will sell maybe 13k-14k units this year. Nissan Leaf 10k units; Audi EVs 8k-9k units; Hyundai EVs 8k-9k units; Porsche Taycan 8k-9k units (the Taycan is now outselling the 911 in the US market).
- mikestew 5y ago
  If you're not into cars, I doubt you'd recognize a Chevy Bolt if it came up and tapped you on the hind end. Hell, I'm not only "into" cars, I bought one of the first Nissan Leafs, so I know my electric cars. And I have to take a second look to make sure it's a Bolt and not a Chevy Spark. Even the new Leafs aren't the odd-looking, bug-eyed beasts they used to be, and look almost normal these days. So unless you've actually been looking, it's likely the body styles just haven't stood out enough for you to notice.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Assuming the car says "Leaf" or "Volt" on the back, I would have noticed. And I have seen a few of them, just far, far fewer than Teslas. The drastic difference in how often I see those makes me think there is something wrong with the value proposition though to make them so uncompetitive with Teslas.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  https://electrek.co/2021/02/16/tesla-owns-electric-car-market-us/ https://electrek.co/2021/02/16/tesla-owns-electric-car-marke... About 79% of EVs in the US are Tesla. They exist, but Tesla certainly absolutely dominates the market. The major drawback to other brands has many facets: - Reputation for low range. The first Nissan Leaf made in 2011 had an EPA range of only 73 miles. In 2016, they started giving a bigger battery, but it still only had a paltry 107 mile range. It wasn't until 2019 that they started offering a battery with a 226 mile range, but by then, the reputation as a short-range EV was essentially set in stone. - Slow charging speed. Teslas can charge at up to a whopping 250 kW, which can grant 75 miles of range in only 5 minutes. Meanwhile, the Leaf only supported up to 50 kW until 2019, and even now only does 100 kW. - Lack of charging infrastructure. This is related to the previous note. If you go to a site like PlugShare.com, you can see TONS of chargers in any metro area, but the problem is, the extreme majority of them are J-1772 plugs that charge at <10 kW. At that speed, it takes an hour to get just 30 miles of range. All that is compounded by the fact that car dealerships are often disincentivized to sell EVs. Dealerships make a significant portion of their money in the repair and maintenance bays. Since EVs require far less maintenance, and so far are proving far more reliable, dealerships don't want to sell them.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    Lucid is currently the one with the longest range ( 520 miles). They are starting deliveries this week. They were a battery innovator and supplier for formula-e and now started they own car production.
- atombender 5y ago
  The Kia e-Niro is fantastic, at a fraction of the price of a Tesla. It's been so popular that it's been selling out in a lot of places. I also hear good things about the Hyundai Kona, which is quite similar in terms of build and features. (They share a bunch of tech, I believe.) Volkswagen's newest model, ID.4, is now being sold in the US. It's great. The Chevy Bolt is not the latest tech, but I hear a lot of people are happy with it. In Europe, of course, the variety is much greater: In addition to the above, you also have the Peugot e-208, Nissan Leaf, Opel Corsa-e, Škoda Enyaq, Ford e-Mach, Audi e-tron, Jaguar I-PACE, Polestar, etc.

neogodless 5y ago

You read something into my comment that I simply didn't say. What I did say: > It's a key market advantage they are about to lose. Toyota has a key market advantage among ICE power trains. They do not have a key market advantage with electric power trains. (Though they should, given their decades of Prius production.)

rsj_hn 5y ago
Their market advantage is in manufacturing. They make quality products. Honda makes better, more reliable engines. But Toyota is great at manufacturing.