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This was perhaps a good plan delivered with the poorest tact. The reality distortion field seems to be working in reverse for Leo & Co. Moving toward an enterp

by ansy 15y ago

This was perhaps a good plan delivered with the poorest tact. The reality distortion field seems to be working in reverse for Leo & Co. Moving toward an enterprise only strategy could make HP healthier and more profitable in the long run. It may even reap additional benefits from a consolidation of vision. The PSG offers less and less synergy with the rest of the company with each passing year. Especially if WebOS is dead, which everyone knew but nobody wanted to admit. The problem is HP could have kept webOS in zombie mode and discretely shopped around the company under the guise of licensing talks. Maybe HP already did that and its last option walked out the door. And the same with the PSG. HP could have kept that under wraps and saved the news until the transition was nearly complete. "By the way, PSG, the #1 PC maker in the world, is doing great and we think it will do even better as an autonomous company which will happen as soon as the SEC allows it starting from today." Instead HP delivered an abortion of bad news with little to no concern how it would be received. It's like Apotheker thought to himself, "this is clearly the best solution" and therefore it requires absolutely no explanation. Everyone should just "get it" like he does.

truthout 15y ago
If you think you're right and the market is wrong, you should buy the stock. This is what makes a market. I you are right, you will make money. If you're wrong, you lose.
justincormack 15y ago
Personally I think that big enterprise software and its sales model, as perfected by Oracle and SAP is dead long term, it will be killed by an on demand cloud products. HP maybe had a chance to get into this market eventually, and WebOS was part of his strategy. But instead they decided to chase last decades model which makes high margins in the short term. And why does no one want to try to compete with Apple?
- ansy 15y ago
  What? The cloud IS Oracle, IBM, SAP, and HP's future revenue model. They are going to build the cloud, build the enterprise cloud services, and bill out consultants specializing in the cloud. HP's future is nothing but the cloud moving forward. HP makes the servers that are the cloud. HP's business software will sit on its servers instead of yours. HP's consultants will charge you $$$ to tell you which services work for you, provision everything, configure it, do the integration, and host it for you in the cloud for a recurring monthly fee per user. WebOS has nothing to do with capitalizing on the cloud. It's just one of many clients to the cloud.
  - justincormack 15y ago
    That is what they think. MySpace bought HP servers, but Facebook doesnt. That market will commoditise too, as cloud that uses software not hardware redundancy doesnt need the high margin features. And the future of business software is gradually being built by Salesforce, Google, Dropbox and so on. The landscape will change drastically. While there is innovation in clients, owning a platform is still part of a viable strategy. There is still an opening for a business friendly platform, as Microsoft can still lose and RIM is weak.
    - wheels 15y ago
      > the future of business software is gradually being built by Salesforce, Google, Dropbox What color is the sky on your planet? Enterprise software -- the largest software market by a long-shot -- is not scared of ... Dropbox. That's like saying that cars will be wiped out by lawnmowers. The statement doesn't make any sense. Nor does using Facebook and MySpace as examples of enterprise infrastructures. They're medium sized companies with disproportionately large infrastructure needs. What happens at Facebook says virtually nothing about what happens at Mercedes. And nobody in the enterprise trusts Google since enterprise software is all about managing worst case scenarios, and Google's "here, talk to a robot" isn't even in the same galaxy as an acceptable partner program for the enterprise. Salesforce is the only one of those companies that even should be mentioned in the same breath and they're mostly a pain in the ass for Oracle and SAP because they've been chipping away at the low end of the market (very successfully). It is plausible that they'll continue to push upward and conquer increasingly larger markets, but that's something that will take a decade or two to unfold.
      - _delirium 15y ago
        I mostly agree, but Google Apps for Business is slowly chipping away at some of the market that 5 years ago might've bought an enterprise "email solution", especially at the lower end of the market, like universities, state governments, and medium-sized businesses. Less success among very large businesses, but a few have adopted it.
- dman 15y ago
  Its hard to compete against a religion.
  - justincormack 15y ago
    Pepsi competes against Coke. Islam competes against Christianity. It requires a long term view that businesses are no longer good at in general.
- Daishiman 15y ago
  > Personally I think that big enterprise software and its sales model, as perfected by Oracle and SAP is dead long term, it will be killed by an on demand cloud products. HP maybe had a chance to get into this market eventually, and WebOS was part of his strategy It's not going to be the market it once was, but those companies have very, very good reasons to use enterprise software: they can't rely on no-name cloud providers for legal and ass-covering reasons, they need the local installations and control of their infrastructure, and their sales structure is optimized for dealing with large corporations. > And why does no one want to try to compete with Apple? Doing your own hardware is expensive, and getting good margins much more so. HP hasn't made high-quality hardware in ages, and they can't possibly compete with Apple or Google's partners in the arena when they have to catch up and invest even more money than them.
  - ghshephard 15y ago
    Interesting perspective - Particularly as I see so much crappy enterprise software being installed in our company, for pretty much the reason you are communicating. But, where does salesforce.com come into play? They seem to be pretty successful. If I had to bet - it will be short-term (5-10 years) enterprise software continues to be successful. But longer term (10 years+) cloud software demolishes the whole concept of "Local installs and management of every enterprise software under the sun."
    - quanticle 15y ago
      I doubt it. Yeah, it might be technically feasible. But politically? No way. Corporations are control freaks. I've seen it time and again - as corporations grow, they require a level of customization that generic third party cloud providers can't provide and they bring their infrastructure in-house.
  - Daniel_Newby 15y ago
    ... they can't rely on no-name cloud providers for legal and ass-covering reasons, they need the local installations and control of their infrastructure, ... Amazon Federal http://aws.amazon.com/federal/ http://aws.amazon.com/federal/ "Amazon Web Services (AWS) offers federal government agencies a secure, reliable, and cost-effective computing platform in the cloud. By using AWS products, government organizations can focus on meeting their mission-critical objectives, and spend less time procuring, developing, or managing IT resources. " "Security: In order to provide end-to-end security and end-to-end privacy, AWS builds services in accordance with security best practices, provides appropriate security features in those services, and documents how to use those features. AWS’ compliance framework covers FISMA Low, PCI DSS Level 1, ISO 27001, SAS70 type II, and HIPAA."
- forgotAgain 15y ago
  Given the requirements of the US Patriot act, (cloud providers must turn over customer data to the government without disclosing it to the customer and without the benefit of a warrant), I don't see large corporations moving to public clouds. Private clouds maybe but not public ones.

by ansy 15y ago

truthout 15y ago

If you think you're right and the market is wrong, you should buy the stock. This is what makes a market. I you are right, you will make money. If you're wrong, you lose.

justincormack 15y ago

Personally I think that big enterprise software and its sales model, as perfected by Oracle and SAP is dead long term, it will be killed by an on demand cloud products. HP maybe had a chance to get into this market eventually, and WebOS was part of his strategy. But instead they decided to chase last decades model which makes high margins in the short term. And why does no one want to try to compete with Apple?

ansy 15y ago
What? The cloud IS Oracle, IBM, SAP, and HP's future revenue model. They are going to build the cloud, build the enterprise cloud services, and bill out consultants specializing in the cloud. HP's future is nothing but the cloud moving forward. HP makes the servers that are the cloud. HP's business software will sit on its servers instead of yours. HP's consultants will charge you $$$ to tell you which services work for you, provision everything, configure it, do the integration, and host it for you in the cloud for a recurring monthly fee per user. WebOS has nothing to do with capitalizing on the cloud. It's just one of many clients to the cloud.
- justincormack 15y ago
  That is what they think. MySpace bought HP servers, but Facebook doesnt. That market will commoditise too, as cloud that uses software not hardware redundancy doesnt need the high margin features. And the future of business software is gradually being built by Salesforce, Google, Dropbox and so on. The landscape will change drastically. While there is innovation in clients, owning a platform is still part of a viable strategy. There is still an opening for a business friendly platform, as Microsoft can still lose and RIM is weak.
  - wheels 15y ago
    > the future of business software is gradually being built by Salesforce, Google, Dropbox What color is the sky on your planet? Enterprise software -- the largest software market by a long-shot -- is not scared of ... Dropbox. That's like saying that cars will be wiped out by lawnmowers. The statement doesn't make any sense. Nor does using Facebook and MySpace as examples of enterprise infrastructures. They're medium sized companies with disproportionately large infrastructure needs. What happens at Facebook says virtually nothing about what happens at Mercedes. And nobody in the enterprise trusts Google since enterprise software is all about managing worst case scenarios, and Google's "here, talk to a robot" isn't even in the same galaxy as an acceptable partner program for the enterprise. Salesforce is the only one of those companies that even should be mentioned in the same breath and they're mostly a pain in the ass for Oracle and SAP because they've been chipping away at the low end of the market (very successfully). It is plausible that they'll continue to push upward and conquer increasingly larger markets, but that's something that will take a decade or two to unfold.
    - _delirium 15y ago
      I mostly agree, but Google Apps for Business is slowly chipping away at some of the market that 5 years ago might've bought an enterprise "email solution", especially at the lower end of the market, like universities, state governments, and medium-sized businesses. Less success among very large businesses, but a few have adopted it.
dman 15y ago
Its hard to compete against a religion.
- justincormack 15y ago
  Pepsi competes against Coke. Islam competes against Christianity. It requires a long term view that businesses are no longer good at in general.
Daishiman 15y ago
> Personally I think that big enterprise software and its sales model, as perfected by Oracle and SAP is dead long term, it will be killed by an on demand cloud products. HP maybe had a chance to get into this market eventually, and WebOS was part of his strategy It's not going to be the market it once was, but those companies have very, very good reasons to use enterprise software: they can't rely on no-name cloud providers for legal and ass-covering reasons, they need the local installations and control of their infrastructure, and their sales structure is optimized for dealing with large corporations. > And why does no one want to try to compete with Apple? Doing your own hardware is expensive, and getting good margins much more so. HP hasn't made high-quality hardware in ages, and they can't possibly compete with Apple or Google's partners in the arena when they have to catch up and invest even more money than them.
- ghshephard 15y ago
  Interesting perspective - Particularly as I see so much crappy enterprise software being installed in our company, for pretty much the reason you are communicating. But, where does salesforce.com come into play? They seem to be pretty successful. If I had to bet - it will be short-term (5-10 years) enterprise software continues to be successful. But longer term (10 years+) cloud software demolishes the whole concept of "Local installs and management of every enterprise software under the sun."
  - quanticle 15y ago
    I doubt it. Yeah, it might be technically feasible. But politically? No way. Corporations are control freaks. I've seen it time and again - as corporations grow, they require a level of customization that generic third party cloud providers can't provide and they bring their infrastructure in-house.
- Daniel_Newby 15y ago
  ... they can't rely on no-name cloud providers for legal and ass-covering reasons, they need the local installations and control of their infrastructure, ... Amazon Federal http://aws.amazon.com/federal/ http://aws.amazon.com/federal/ "Amazon Web Services (AWS) offers federal government agencies a secure, reliable, and cost-effective computing platform in the cloud. By using AWS products, government organizations can focus on meeting their mission-critical objectives, and spend less time procuring, developing, or managing IT resources. " "Security: In order to provide end-to-end security and end-to-end privacy, AWS builds services in accordance with security best practices, provides appropriate security features in those services, and documents how to use those features. AWS’ compliance framework covers FISMA Low, PCI DSS Level 1, ISO 27001, SAS70 type II, and HIPAA."
forgotAgain 15y ago
Given the requirements of the US Patriot act, (cloud providers must turn over customer data to the government without disclosing it to the customer and without the benefit of a warrant), I don't see large corporations moving to public clouds. Private clouds maybe but not public ones.