4 ms·

> I used to bike to work, a productive 2 hours of exercise that kept me very healthy Just go and bike for two hours around the block and don't bother people fi

by znpy 5y ago

> I used to bike to work, a productive 2 hours of exercise that kept me very healthy Just go and bike for two hours around the block and don't bother people fine with wfh. It's literally something nobody is preventing you from doing (besides yourself).

wirrbel 5y ago
Stop bullshitting. As a parent the dynamics are totally different especially with Covid measures still in place. My child has not been to pre school for 4 weeks due to sickness and daycare group being closed because of Covid incident. And that must be like the 4th month within this year. It’s hard to maintain any routine in this ever changing emergency.
- znpy 5y ago
  No you stop bullshitting. The problem you lament are due to covid, not due to wfh. And covid it's not an incident, its a f-ing global pandemic.
  - wirrbel 5y ago
    so what do you suggest, that the person you were replying to just stop the pandemic?
Steltek 5y ago
That was a pretty rude dismissal of a fraction of my experiences during all of this. You might want to reflect on what WFH has done to your social skills.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > That was a pretty rude dismissal of a fraction of my experiences during all of this. You might want to reflect on what WFH has done to your social skills. I agree with you there. The problem with WFH is that it doesn't force very many "transitions," which turns a lot more things into intentional acts that take more mental energy to initiate. The result it it's a lot easier to slide into a "blah" kind of state without even realizing it, and a lot harder to pull yourself out of one.
- znpy 5y ago
  My social skills are absolutely fine, i can assure you of that. But I am utterly annoyed with selfish people effectively pulling the whole collectivity back to the office because they can't go bike for two hours or some other dumb reason. It's okay if you got a bit lazy during the pandemic and no one is denying that... but you don't have to pull all your coworkers to the office, you can just go bike or do some other physical activity it's probably going to get better.
  - lowkey_ 5y ago
    > I am utterly annoyed with selfish people effectively pulling the whole collectivity back to the office You might want to re-read their comment — there was no call for everyone to go back to the office, and the parent comment is right that you're being antagonizing for no reason. Here's an analogy for you: I had a childhood I very much enjoyed, where I wasn't on the computer as often and I spent more time in nature. If I were to state this and how much happier I felt, would you start harassing me for trying to drag everyone back to the dark ages and ruining productivity? (No! I can express my own personal opinion and preference, just as you can express yours, and it's not automatically a call for everyone to do the same as me!)
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    > My social skills are absolutely fine, i can assure you of that. I'm not so sure. > But I am utterly annoyed with selfish people effectively pulling the whole collectivity back to the office because they can't go bike for two hours or some other dumb reason. > ...but you don't have to pull all your coworkers to the office... You're projecting that on him. He was just saying working at the office was better for him than WFH, he didn't actually advocate forcing anyone back, which was even made reasonably clear when he said: >>>> Even if my employer began offering office access, I don't think it will ever be the same as what I had before.
  - Sodman 5y ago
    Conversely, other people are annoyed with "selfish" people forcing what could otherwise be a productive in-person meeting to now need to include one person dialed in over zoom, perhaps without a video feed. Hope you weren't planning on collaborating using physical media such as whiteboard or post-it notes. Obviously we can do our best to reduce unnecessary meetings, but for those remaining necessary meetings, an in-person meeting is almost always more productive than a zoom meeting in my experience. This is why both sides are so fired up over remote vs in-person. Your decision to work either remotely or in person has negative consequences for your co-workers either way. WFH folks are mad that they are being asked to commute, in-office folks are mad that they are being forced to use clunky online tools strictly to accommodate their remote-only peers.
borski 5y ago
First: you can disagree with someone and not be an asshole about it. Please consider reading the HN guidelines again. Second: you are dismissing the fact that having an office to go to gave a lot of people a routine as well as forced social interaction. Now, it requires strict discipline to try and enforce it on yourself, whereas before it was a default. I share this commenter’s experience. That you don’t is fantastic for you, but doesn’t make it any less legitimate.
- znpy 5y ago
  I just want to point out that reading rudeness in that comment is your own choice, my intent was really a suggestion. Rudeness here is in the eyes of those who call it that.
  - borski 5y ago
    You responded to someone describing their experience with an aggressive “just do it and don’t bother people fine with wfh,” implying that the poster was somehow trying to encroach on your ability to WFH. They never said that. You even express your frustration directly in a sibling comment below. Pretending your comment wasn’t rude, especially after elsewhere expressing your explicit frustration, is only half-true at best. Have a nice day. :)
    - znpy 5y ago
      Making up stuff is half true at best too but whatever, have a nice day you too :)
      - mlyle 5y ago
        FYI, it also read as excessively dismissive, bordering on aggressive to me. There's plenty of ways to phrase your disagreement without invalidating the person you're talking to quite so much.
    - causehealth101 5y ago
      "Encroach on your ability to WFH" - you perfectly summed up the reason for the vitriol from remote-only people, IMO: They are fearful that people with your stance will give companies a better argument for less remote-work. It's one thing when executives talk about it, because they're "not on the ground" and "just want control" or "don't understand individual contributors", but when peers like you support non-100% remote, it's a real worrisome prospect for them.
rmdashrfv 5y ago
I find your take really interesting because everyone who is pro-WFH tells people that they love WFH because of this long list of things that I was doing before the pandemic, and they were free to do as well. I personally find the notion that by merely having a commute, your quality of life is 10x diminished than if you didn't. If most employers make people return to office, are people just going to drop exercising? Would it not be fair to call that ridiculous?

by znpy 5y ago

wirrbel 5y ago

Stop bullshitting. As a parent the dynamics are totally different especially with Covid measures still in place. My child has not been to pre school for 4 weeks due to sickness and daycare group being closed because of Covid incident. And that must be like the 4th month within this year. It’s hard to maintain any routine in this ever changing emergency.

znpy 5y ago
No you stop bullshitting. The problem you lament are due to covid, not due to wfh. And covid it's not an incident, its a f-ing global pandemic.
- wirrbel 5y ago
  so what do you suggest, that the person you were replying to just stop the pandemic?

Steltek 5y ago

That was a pretty rude dismissal of a fraction of my experiences during all of this. You might want to reflect on what WFH has done to your social skills.

tablespoon 5y ago
> That was a pretty rude dismissal of a fraction of my experiences during all of this. You might want to reflect on what WFH has done to your social skills. I agree with you there. The problem with WFH is that it doesn't force very many "transitions," which turns a lot more things into intentional acts that take more mental energy to initiate. The result it it's a lot easier to slide into a "blah" kind of state without even realizing it, and a lot harder to pull yourself out of one.
znpy 5y ago
My social skills are absolutely fine, i can assure you of that. But I am utterly annoyed with selfish people effectively pulling the whole collectivity back to the office because they can't go bike for two hours or some other dumb reason. It's okay if you got a bit lazy during the pandemic and no one is denying that... but you don't have to pull all your coworkers to the office, you can just go bike or do some other physical activity it's probably going to get better.
- lowkey_ 5y ago
  > I am utterly annoyed with selfish people effectively pulling the whole collectivity back to the office You might want to re-read their comment — there was no call for everyone to go back to the office, and the parent comment is right that you're being antagonizing for no reason. Here's an analogy for you: I had a childhood I very much enjoyed, where I wasn't on the computer as often and I spent more time in nature. If I were to state this and how much happier I felt, would you start harassing me for trying to drag everyone back to the dark ages and ruining productivity? (No! I can express my own personal opinion and preference, just as you can express yours, and it's not automatically a call for everyone to do the same as me!)
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > My social skills are absolutely fine, i can assure you of that. I'm not so sure. > But I am utterly annoyed with selfish people effectively pulling the whole collectivity back to the office because they can't go bike for two hours or some other dumb reason. > ...but you don't have to pull all your coworkers to the office... You're projecting that on him. He was just saying working at the office was better for him than WFH, he didn't actually advocate forcing anyone back, which was even made reasonably clear when he said: >>>> Even if my employer began offering office access, I don't think it will ever be the same as what I had before.
- Sodman 5y ago
  Conversely, other people are annoyed with "selfish" people forcing what could otherwise be a productive in-person meeting to now need to include one person dialed in over zoom, perhaps without a video feed. Hope you weren't planning on collaborating using physical media such as whiteboard or post-it notes. Obviously we can do our best to reduce unnecessary meetings, but for those remaining necessary meetings, an in-person meeting is almost always more productive than a zoom meeting in my experience. This is why both sides are so fired up over remote vs in-person. Your decision to work either remotely or in person has negative consequences for your co-workers either way. WFH folks are mad that they are being asked to commute, in-office folks are mad that they are being forced to use clunky online tools strictly to accommodate their remote-only peers.

borski 5y ago

First: you can disagree with someone and not be an asshole about it. Please consider reading the HN guidelines again. Second: you are dismissing the fact that having an office to go to gave a lot of people a routine as well as forced social interaction. Now, it requires strict discipline to try and enforce it on yourself, whereas before it was a default. I share this commenter’s experience. That you don’t is fantastic for you, but doesn’t make it any less legitimate.

znpy 5y ago
I just want to point out that reading rudeness in that comment is your own choice, my intent was really a suggestion. Rudeness here is in the eyes of those who call it that.
- borski 5y ago
  You responded to someone describing their experience with an aggressive “just do it and don’t bother people fine with wfh,” implying that the poster was somehow trying to encroach on your ability to WFH. They never said that. You even express your frustration directly in a sibling comment below. Pretending your comment wasn’t rude, especially after elsewhere expressing your explicit frustration, is only half-true at best. Have a nice day. :)
  - znpy 5y ago
    Making up stuff is half true at best too but whatever, have a nice day you too :)
    - mlyle 5y ago
      FYI, it also read as excessively dismissive, bordering on aggressive to me. There's plenty of ways to phrase your disagreement without invalidating the person you're talking to quite so much.
  - causehealth101 5y ago
    "Encroach on your ability to WFH" - you perfectly summed up the reason for the vitriol from remote-only people, IMO: They are fearful that people with your stance will give companies a better argument for less remote-work. It's one thing when executives talk about it, because they're "not on the ground" and "just want control" or "don't understand individual contributors", but when peers like you support non-100% remote, it's a real worrisome prospect for them.

rmdashrfv 5y ago

I find your take really interesting because everyone who is pro-WFH tells people that they love WFH because of this long list of things that I was doing before the pandemic, and they were free to do as well. I personally find the notion that by merely having a commute, your quality of life is 10x diminished than if you didn't. If most employers make people return to office, are people just going to drop exercising? Would it not be fair to call that ridiculous?