7 ms·

Is the rationale behind this liability concerns, cleanliness, drug use concerns or something else?

mschuster91 5y ago
Cleanliness, for one. The current state is "everyone bans truck drivers", which means that any place accepting truck drivers will be swarmed by truck drivers to a degree it may actually cause traffic jams - because who would not use the only toilet for a hundred miles? - and you simply can't have enough cleaning staff on hand to deal with that. The obvious solution for that would be to do what is the law in Germany - you can't get a license for a highway rest/gas stop without offering toilets for travellers of all kind.
- Mashimo 5y ago
  Wait, the rest stop ban truck drivers? That is fucked up. From OP I thought it was the logistics companies. As in the place where you deliver to. Germany has also a truck driver shortage, but the infrastructure has been improved. As in the truck stops and what not. Should be easier to get a shower compared to UK.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    > From OP I thought it was the logistics companies. As in the place where you deliver to. I have read more than enough reports of both happening - and the logistics companies banning truck drivers from toilets is a direct consequence of not being enough toilets and other facilities on the road, because people who have been on the road non-stop for days without a shower, sleeping in their trucks, don't exactly smell good. > Should be easier to get a shower compared to UK. It should be, but well... corona has led to massive issues (see e.g. https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klagen-ueber-geschlossene-duschen-an-autobahnen-2585803 https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klag...).
    - Mashimo 5y ago
      > I have read more than enough reports of both happening Wow, that is insane. > (see e.g. https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klag https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klag... :S That sucks.
      - mschuster91 5y ago
        The sad consequences of the combination of a number of causes: 1) ridiculous rat race to the bottom in pricing by customers always going for the cheapest trucking supplier 2) inter-European right of free movement and work - which means that in Germany, there are truck drivers at domestic minimum wage (9.60€/h) and truck drivers from e.g. Romania for a less than a quarter of that - 2€/h (https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-konsumgueter/mangelware-brummi-fahrer-fahrer-aus-rumaenien-fuer-zwei-euro-pro-stunde/7106200-3.html?ticket=ST-1626593-Y2SWlPpyjgUGe5zSsbKB-cas01.example.org https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-konsumgueter...). 3) a serious lack of unionization among truck drivers - hard to contact people when they are constantly on the road Right now, people are actually looking at the plights of truck drivers because of the crunch, but I can guarantee you nothing much will change and especially no one will bat an eye at the situation once the crunch is over.
    - gambiting 5y ago
      >>It should be, but well... corona has led to massive issues Not a truck driver, but I was in the centre of Manchester around February time this year(pretty much peak lockdown in the UK), and it was impossible to use the toilet anywhere. I went from business to business, cofee shop to coffee shop, literally begged to use their toilets as I really had to go, no one agreed, corona restrictions, bathrooms only for employees etc etc. The only public toilet on the main square was out of order too. So I ended up going behind some bins in a back alley. Absolutely bonkers and stupid.
      - switch007 5y ago
        I had similar problems in city centres (Manchester included) and petrol stations. I'm definitely of the opinion that it was due to furloughed staff more than a safety aspect. I complained to my MP because our 24-hour train station decided toilets could only be open 7am-7pm due to "lack of staff due to COVID". Absolutely bonkers. They've returned to more sane opening hours now luckily. Denying people the right to go to the toilet while away from home was one of the many, many lowlights in the response to COVID.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > you can't get a license for a highway rest/gas stop without offering toilets for travellers of all kind. The province of Ontario is looking at legislation to mandate delivery folks can use a location's facilities: * https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/trucking-ontario-washrooms-covid19-1.6218959 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/trucking-ontario-wash...
avs733 5y ago
Dehumanization?
ryanmercer 5y ago
Cleanliness. Find a truck stop near you, go use one of the toilets, more often than not the facilities are beyond filthy unless the station cleans them several times a day.
- ericbarrett 5y ago
  Gotta disagree. I've taken many interstate trips across the U.S. and must have used the bathroom in a truck/travel stop dozens upon dozens of times; I've never once seen a disaster. (No doubt due to heroic efforts by the staff, but still.) 99% of the time they have all three of soap, water, and clean surfaces. Much better luck than with auto-oriented gas stations, which often are as you describe.
IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago
I'm also going to say something that is anecdotal, borderline speculation, but I think the diet of truck drivers by virtue of being on the road a lot ...it's not exactly conductive to smooth bowel movements. This of course will impair cleanliness. That being said I'm not really sure if i have witnessed constraints on toilet use by truckers, other than parking a big rig in a small lot can be a major issue.
- akudha 5y ago
  The Barnes and Noble store near my home is in a super clean, nice mall. The store itself is awesome, except the bathroom. I guess any toilet open to the public is going to be bad, unless it is some high end establishment with someone full time maintaining it. I guess most businesses are unable or unwilling to spend money doing so, it is easier to simply restrict access, even if it is dehumanizing. I wonder if it is possible to design trucks with a airplane sized toilet? I don't know how much it would cost or how it would work, but at least it is worth thinking about?
  - nradov 5y ago
    Long haul trucks have very limited space. Many truckers do bring a portable chemical toilet but it wouldn't really be practical to install a flush toilet like in an airliner lavatory.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    I’ve witnessed the alternative and had to clean it off my shoe. Public bathrooms should be a right, if only for sanitary reasons.
    - aksss 5y ago
      An entitlement, rather than a right, but the problem again is who cleans these things up to a workable standard. Is a public facility worth much if clogged and overflowing with human waste? If antisocial actors spread such waste and other fluids on the walls? It becomes worthless as a public accommodation and so effectively ceases to exist again. Solution for public facilities is probably automated effective sanitation and/or a Singapore model of disincentives for being gross in public.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
It's because some minority of truckers will trash the bathrooms ruining it for everyone else. These guys eat a lot of junk food and a lot of them are from countries with different default bathroom practices so if your facility takes truck deliveries it's going to be an occurrence in proportion to the number of truck deliveries.

Cleanliness, for one. The current state is "everyone bans truck drivers", which means that any place accepting truck drivers will be swarmed by truck drivers to a degree it may actually cause traffic jams - because who would not use the only toilet for a hundred miles? - and you simply can't have enough cleaning staff on hand to deal with that. The obvious solution for that would be to do what is the law in Germany - you can't get a license for a highway rest/gas stop without offering toilets for travellers of all kind.

Mashimo 5y ago
Wait, the rest stop ban truck drivers? That is fucked up. From OP I thought it was the logistics companies. As in the place where you deliver to. Germany has also a truck driver shortage, but the infrastructure has been improved. As in the truck stops and what not. Should be easier to get a shower compared to UK.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > From OP I thought it was the logistics companies. As in the place where you deliver to. I have read more than enough reports of both happening - and the logistics companies banning truck drivers from toilets is a direct consequence of not being enough toilets and other facilities on the road, because people who have been on the road non-stop for days without a shower, sleeping in their trucks, don't exactly smell good. > Should be easier to get a shower compared to UK. It should be, but well... corona has led to massive issues (see e.g. https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klagen-ueber-geschlossene-duschen-an-autobahnen-2585803 https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klag...).
  - Mashimo 5y ago
    > I have read more than enough reports of both happening Wow, that is insane. > (see e.g. https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klag https://www.trucker.de/nachrichten/transport/lkw-fahrer-klag... :S That sucks.
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      The sad consequences of the combination of a number of causes: 1) ridiculous rat race to the bottom in pricing by customers always going for the cheapest trucking supplier 2) inter-European right of free movement and work - which means that in Germany, there are truck drivers at domestic minimum wage (9.60€/h) and truck drivers from e.g. Romania for a less than a quarter of that - 2€/h (https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-konsumgueter/mangelware-brummi-fahrer-fahrer-aus-rumaenien-fuer-zwei-euro-pro-stunde/7106200-3.html?ticket=ST-1626593-Y2SWlPpyjgUGe5zSsbKB-cas01.example.org https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-konsumgueter...). 3) a serious lack of unionization among truck drivers - hard to contact people when they are constantly on the road Right now, people are actually looking at the plights of truck drivers because of the crunch, but I can guarantee you nothing much will change and especially no one will bat an eye at the situation once the crunch is over.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    >>It should be, but well... corona has led to massive issues Not a truck driver, but I was in the centre of Manchester around February time this year(pretty much peak lockdown in the UK), and it was impossible to use the toilet anywhere. I went from business to business, cofee shop to coffee shop, literally begged to use their toilets as I really had to go, no one agreed, corona restrictions, bathrooms only for employees etc etc. The only public toilet on the main square was out of order too. So I ended up going behind some bins in a back alley. Absolutely bonkers and stupid.
    - switch007 5y ago
      I had similar problems in city centres (Manchester included) and petrol stations. I'm definitely of the opinion that it was due to furloughed staff more than a safety aspect. I complained to my MP because our 24-hour train station decided toilets could only be open 7am-7pm due to "lack of staff due to COVID". Absolutely bonkers. They've returned to more sane opening hours now luckily. Denying people the right to go to the toilet while away from home was one of the many, many lowlights in the response to COVID.
throw0101a 5y ago
> you can't get a license for a highway rest/gas stop without offering toilets for travellers of all kind. The province of Ontario is looking at legislation to mandate delivery folks can use a location's facilities: * https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/trucking-ontario-washrooms-covid19-1.6218959 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/trucking-ontario-wash...

avs733 5y ago

Dehumanization?

ryanmercer 5y ago

Cleanliness. Find a truck stop near you, go use one of the toilets, more often than not the facilities are beyond filthy unless the station cleans them several times a day.

ericbarrett 5y ago
Gotta disagree. I've taken many interstate trips across the U.S. and must have used the bathroom in a truck/travel stop dozens upon dozens of times; I've never once seen a disaster. (No doubt due to heroic efforts by the staff, but still.) 99% of the time they have all three of soap, water, and clean surfaces. Much better luck than with auto-oriented gas stations, which often are as you describe.

IG_Semmelweiss 5y ago

I'm also going to say something that is anecdotal, borderline speculation, but I think the diet of truck drivers by virtue of being on the road a lot ...it's not exactly conductive to smooth bowel movements. This of course will impair cleanliness. That being said I'm not really sure if i have witnessed constraints on toilet use by truckers, other than parking a big rig in a small lot can be a major issue.

akudha 5y ago
The Barnes and Noble store near my home is in a super clean, nice mall. The store itself is awesome, except the bathroom. I guess any toilet open to the public is going to be bad, unless it is some high end establishment with someone full time maintaining it. I guess most businesses are unable or unwilling to spend money doing so, it is easier to simply restrict access, even if it is dehumanizing. I wonder if it is possible to design trucks with a airplane sized toilet? I don't know how much it would cost or how it would work, but at least it is worth thinking about?
- nradov 5y ago
  Long haul trucks have very limited space. Many truckers do bring a portable chemical toilet but it wouldn't really be practical to install a flush toilet like in an airliner lavatory.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  I’ve witnessed the alternative and had to clean it off my shoe. Public bathrooms should be a right, if only for sanitary reasons.
  - aksss 5y ago
    An entitlement, rather than a right, but the problem again is who cleans these things up to a workable standard. Is a public facility worth much if clogged and overflowing with human waste? If antisocial actors spread such waste and other fluids on the walls? It becomes worthless as a public accommodation and so effectively ceases to exist again. Solution for public facilities is probably automated effective sanitation and/or a Singapore model of disincentives for being gross in public.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

It's because some minority of truckers will trash the bathrooms ruining it for everyone else. These guys eat a lot of junk food and a lot of them are from countries with different default bathroom practices so if your facility takes truck deliveries it's going to be an occurrence in proportion to the number of truck deliveries.