6 ms·

Can I ask you something? Is Zuckerberg really THAT bad of a guy? I am no fan of FB, and I don't own any FB products, but I don't think there's anyone who I woul

Can I ask you something? Is Zuckerberg really THAT bad of a guy? I am no fan of FB, and I don't own any FB products, but I don't think there's anyone who I would outright refuse to work with just based on their negative public reputation. I mean the way people talk about Zuck, you'd think he's a mass murderer. But I'm not sure what he actually did other than brag about having passwords back in college and making ruthless business decisions.

tata71 5y ago
> brag about having passwords No, he openly offered personally identifying information. Bit different.
ses1984 5y ago
Someone doesn’t have to be a mass murderer to make me not want to work for them.
s5300 5y ago
He called his original users dumb fucks and had multiple secret meetings with the U.S. administration that just literally tried to overthrow our (U.S.) democracy. Facebook has been successfully used for, and did not feel the need to intervene in, orchestrating genocide in other countries, IIRC - and this is before his secret meetings with aforementioned administration. Something something if it can happen somewhere it can happen where you are. There are many other things, but those are the first to come to mind that would make me want to have absolutely nothing to do with him. Do you not care about other humans and civil society? If so, Zuck may be for you, but not I. > I don't think there's anyone who I would outright refuse to work with just based on their negative public reputation. Many successful SWE's and hiring managers have publicly and anonymously discussed not wanting to work with or hire previous Facebook devs based on morals and ethics of business, not even mentioning Zuck. Are they just trying to virtue signal and act woke? I don't know.
- gjs278 5y ago
  lol there was no attempted overthrow. go back to /r/politics
- reissbaker 5y ago
  Carmack is a libertarian who has previously supported Republican candidates, and used to work for Palmer Luckey, who was an outright MAGA supporter (unlike Zuckerberg, who claims to dislike Trump) — and aside from that, having meetings with Trump when he was President without inviting journalists into the room is something plenty of businesses did. I don't think Carmack is going to be thrown off by the Trump meetings. If anything, Zuck is probably a better owner for Oculus from a political standpoint than Luckey was.
- mavhc 5y ago
  > He called his original users dumb fucks and had multiple secret meetings with the U.S. administration that just literally tried to overthrow our (U.S.) democracy. So like every other large company then. "We connected people together and it turned out 1% of them are assholes" > Are they just trying to virtue signal and act woke? I don't know. Yes, is signalling your virtues and acting .. "aware of what is going on, or well-informed, especially in racial and other social justice issues"... bad?
  - wiseowise 5y ago
    > Yes, is signalling your virtues and acting .. "aware of what is going on, or well-informed, especially in racial and other social justice issues"... bad? If it harms others, then yes. Just yesterday I read about lawsuit where white male was fired to hire two females. Which is a direct consequence of diversity virtue signaling.
    - mavhc 5y ago
      So they harmed 1 person and helped 2 people? Seems great overall. Also as you're talking about humans, probably use "man" and "women", otherwise you sound like... someone who would complain about people being woke.
- wiseowise 5y ago
  > Are they just trying to virtue signal and act woke? Yes.
Aeolun 5y ago
Hmm, I think it’s a bit like the emperor of Japan back in WW2? He wasn’t actively making the bad decisions, but he certainly supported the people making the bad decisions while having the absolute power to stop them. In the best case he’s just ridiculously naive, in the worst case…
- jonny_eh 5y ago
  In other words, he's ultimately responsible for damage done under his leadership.
  - baby 5y ago
    What damage though?
    - T-A 5y ago
      I guess little things like https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/07/facebooks-role-in-myanmar-and-ethiopia-under-new-scrutiny https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/07/facebooks... and https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/03/facebook-misinformation-nyu-study/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/03/faceboo...
throwaway102821 5y ago
> I mean the way people talk about Zuck, you'd think he's a mass murderer For many people, the way (most) people talk about someone (i.e. their tone, not specific details) is the primary signal used to determine their own general tone/opinion about that person. A few other common reasons someone may not like Zuck: 1. He's rich 2. He's at the top of a hugely profitable company (and profitable companies are generally disliked) 3. FB has absorbed a lot of the advertising spend, at the expense of traditional media (whose tone sets the tone for many people, pt 1)
- picardythird 5y ago
  Is this Mark Zuckerburg or his wife?
- macintux 5y ago
  4. FB's choice to encourage divisiveness ("engagement") via their algorithm places my country's democratic future very much in doubt.
  - KaiserPro 5y ago
    and of course print media (in the UK) and rolling news (in the US) has tried its very best to bridge the divide. In no way are they pumping out ever more opinion pieces rather than actual news, to pander to which ever "side" they "support"
    - macintux 5y ago
      I am so very tired of whataboutism.
      - KaiserPro 5y ago
        its not "whataboutism" its the "oh facebook is the single biggest threat to x, y &z" its reductive and plainly bollocks. if Facebook was editorialized, then yes, it would be the leading cause of x, y & z. Facebook is a reflection of society. How do I find out about some nefarious actor on facebook? through news, its pretty rare that I am organically exposed to that stuff. Take Tide pods, that was a total moral panic driven by American TV. The "death bird" panic was driven by UK daytime tv. It got to the point that my Kid's school was showing the image to my kids, saying that it was ok and that its not a problem, and that you were never going to die, all the while having an expression of repressed fear. Facebook is a Social Phased lock Loop. You have to engage with the extreme content for it to continually be shown to you. I dislike Facebook, they have made some strategic failures. However this _obsession_ with facebook absolves everyone else, which is both the point and the risk of this stupidity.
rvz 5y ago
Given that everyone continues to talk about Zuckerberg’s website every single day despite the massive fines, privacy violations, scandals, etc it tells you that his ruthless business decisions are working and his website is more relevant to this day than ever. You and I may not like him or use his website, but it seems that it is enough for someone like Carmack to continue working there for longer and the users who still detest him and his website to continue to have an account and use it regardless. From a business standpoint, he is still winning. Every time someone uses his services or he is talked about, he wins.
sneak 5y ago
> Can I ask you something? Is Zuckerberg really THAT bad of a guy? Even independently of Facebook/Meta, yes.

tata71 5y ago

> brag about having passwords No, he openly offered personally identifying information. Bit different.

ses1984 5y ago

Someone doesn’t have to be a mass murderer to make me not want to work for them.

s5300 5y ago

He called his original users dumb fucks and had multiple secret meetings with the U.S. administration that just literally tried to overthrow our (U.S.) democracy. Facebook has been successfully used for, and did not feel the need to intervene in, orchestrating genocide in other countries, IIRC - and this is before his secret meetings with aforementioned administration. Something something if it can happen somewhere it can happen where you are. There are many other things, but those are the first to come to mind that would make me want to have absolutely nothing to do with him. Do you not care about other humans and civil society? If so, Zuck may be for you, but not I. > I don't think there's anyone who I would outright refuse to work with just based on their negative public reputation. Many successful SWE's and hiring managers have publicly and anonymously discussed not wanting to work with or hire previous Facebook devs based on morals and ethics of business, not even mentioning Zuck. Are they just trying to virtue signal and act woke? I don't know.

gjs278 5y ago
lol there was no attempted overthrow. go back to /r/politics
reissbaker 5y ago
Carmack is a libertarian who has previously supported Republican candidates, and used to work for Palmer Luckey, who was an outright MAGA supporter (unlike Zuckerberg, who claims to dislike Trump) — and aside from that, having meetings with Trump when he was President without inviting journalists into the room is something plenty of businesses did. I don't think Carmack is going to be thrown off by the Trump meetings. If anything, Zuck is probably a better owner for Oculus from a political standpoint than Luckey was.
mavhc 5y ago
> He called his original users dumb fucks and had multiple secret meetings with the U.S. administration that just literally tried to overthrow our (U.S.) democracy. So like every other large company then. "We connected people together and it turned out 1% of them are assholes" > Are they just trying to virtue signal and act woke? I don't know. Yes, is signalling your virtues and acting .. "aware of what is going on, or well-informed, especially in racial and other social justice issues"... bad?
- wiseowise 5y ago
  > Yes, is signalling your virtues and acting .. "aware of what is going on, or well-informed, especially in racial and other social justice issues"... bad? If it harms others, then yes. Just yesterday I read about lawsuit where white male was fired to hire two females. Which is a direct consequence of diversity virtue signaling.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    So they harmed 1 person and helped 2 people? Seems great overall. Also as you're talking about humans, probably use "man" and "women", otherwise you sound like... someone who would complain about people being woke.
wiseowise 5y ago
> Are they just trying to virtue signal and act woke? Yes.

Aeolun 5y ago

Hmm, I think it’s a bit like the emperor of Japan back in WW2? He wasn’t actively making the bad decisions, but he certainly supported the people making the bad decisions while having the absolute power to stop them. In the best case he’s just ridiculously naive, in the worst case…

jonny_eh 5y ago
In other words, he's ultimately responsible for damage done under his leadership.
- baby 5y ago
  What damage though?
  - T-A 5y ago
    I guess little things like https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/07/facebooks-role-in-myanmar-and-ethiopia-under-new-scrutiny https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/07/facebooks... and https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/03/facebook-misinformation-nyu-study/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/03/faceboo...

throwaway102821 5y ago

> I mean the way people talk about Zuck, you'd think he's a mass murderer For many people, the way (most) people talk about someone (i.e. their tone, not specific details) is the primary signal used to determine their own general tone/opinion about that person. A few other common reasons someone may not like Zuck: 1. He's rich 2. He's at the top of a hugely profitable company (and profitable companies are generally disliked) 3. FB has absorbed a lot of the advertising spend, at the expense of traditional media (whose tone sets the tone for many people, pt 1)

picardythird 5y ago
Is this Mark Zuckerburg or his wife?
macintux 5y ago
4. FB's choice to encourage divisiveness ("engagement") via their algorithm places my country's democratic future very much in doubt.
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  and of course print media (in the UK) and rolling news (in the US) has tried its very best to bridge the divide. In no way are they pumping out ever more opinion pieces rather than actual news, to pander to which ever "side" they "support"
  - macintux 5y ago
    I am so very tired of whataboutism.
    - KaiserPro 5y ago
      its not "whataboutism" its the "oh facebook is the single biggest threat to x, y &z" its reductive and plainly bollocks. if Facebook was editorialized, then yes, it would be the leading cause of x, y & z. Facebook is a reflection of society. How do I find out about some nefarious actor on facebook? through news, its pretty rare that I am organically exposed to that stuff. Take Tide pods, that was a total moral panic driven by American TV. The "death bird" panic was driven by UK daytime tv. It got to the point that my Kid's school was showing the image to my kids, saying that it was ok and that its not a problem, and that you were never going to die, all the while having an expression of repressed fear. Facebook is a Social Phased lock Loop. You have to engage with the extreme content for it to continually be shown to you. I dislike Facebook, they have made some strategic failures. However this _obsession_ with facebook absolves everyone else, which is both the point and the risk of this stupidity.

rvz 5y ago

Given that everyone continues to talk about Zuckerberg’s website every single day despite the massive fines, privacy violations, scandals, etc it tells you that his ruthless business decisions are working and his website is more relevant to this day than ever. You and I may not like him or use his website, but it seems that it is enough for someone like Carmack to continue working there for longer and the users who still detest him and his website to continue to have an account and use it regardless. From a business standpoint, he is still winning. Every time someone uses his services or he is talked about, he wins.

sneak 5y ago

> Can I ask you something? Is Zuckerberg really THAT bad of a guy? Even independently of Facebook/Meta, yes.