8 ms·

I'm a big fan of this form factor, specifically just big enough to fit a motherboard/CPU/RAM plus a real-size GPU. These all use SFX PSUs and typically just an

by cletus 5y ago

I'm a big fan of this form factor, specifically just big enough to fit a motherboard/CPU/RAM plus a real-size GPU. These all use SFX PSUs and typically just an M2 SSD on the motherboard. They also have only 2 RAM slots. The days of needing a tower are over for most people. I'm all about space-saving while still having a full-power PC. It's a niche, boutique market but there are some really interesting cases. My personal favourite is the Louqe Ghost S1 [1]. I've built one PC with this (the Mk II). I bought a Mk III case but couldn't source a GPU so ended up just buying a CyberpowerPC prebuilt (which is actually a pretty nice PC, to be fair). They're not cheap and they're kind of annoying to buy. Louqe in particular has had huge distribution problems in the US (through Amazon's logistics service). Another popular one is the Dan A4 [2]. It's smaller. I personally prefer the Ghost for having better airflow, being more modular and being able to expand the case with "top hats". This allows you to add a 240mm AIO and bottom fans for some pretty darn good cooling and airflow. Anyway, I'm always excited to see entrants in this market. [1]: https://www.louqe.com/ghost-s1/ https://www.louqe.com/ghost-s1/ [2]: https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php

fennecfoxy 5y ago
I bought a Louqe Ghost S1 from the original Kickstarter, I still love it. Solid as a rock, really high quality. There are a few minor design issues like the tophats warping if you screw them in too hard but otherwise it's the perfect form factor (plus it looks great). I built it with a 1080ti etc and it's had no cooling problems apart from the 2 m.2 ssds getting a little toasty (alleviated by adding a fan under where the psu sits; I cool using a 240mm radiator in the top so the motherboard wasn't getting much airflow from that).
fetus8 5y ago
I agree wholeheartedly. I built my first ITX machine at the beginning of 2021, and the case choices were fairly dire. The Ghost S1 was sold out, and finding anything else with a decent aesthetic that didn't cost $200+ USD was near impossible. I settled on a Silverstone SG13, which is great utilitarian case, and supports decent sized GPUs. Finding a GPU to fit a SFF case this year was a whole other issue, but I too am glad to see some more companies get into this space. I want some nicer ITX options, I want to see the variety that ATX and "larger" cases see.
- cletus 5y ago
  Before my Ghost some 7-8 years ago I built a SFF PC with a Silverstone case. IIRC it was the SG08. It's old enough that it had a tray and a slot to put a slimline optical drive. It wasn't a bad case and had a decent PSU included but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to remove a few things to get into the case properly. I also ended up breaking the wire to some button at the back. But yeah I sympathize with the issues in sourcing the Ghost. My first one took like 8 months to get.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
Agreed. There's an entire world of Small Form Factor cases available now with great features. This Teenage Engineering chassis is neat and has a cool aesthetic, but it's definitely a form-over-function design. Great if you're going for a certain vibe, but not ideal for a high power build, or even a quiet mid-range build. Those tiny fans and limited ventilation holes are not going to cut it for anything but a very low-power build. I'd be looking at the lowest power CPUs and GPUs available for this case. I'm not even sure why they limited it to such small (read: loud) fans when they seem to have the space for larger fans. Optimum Tech's YouTube channel has some great mini-ITX case reviews for anyone new to this space: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOpUFPiBs6QG1SlnIzM_oObD https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOpUFPiBs6QG...
- karolsputo 5y ago
  Optimum Tech is the place to go when evaluating any PC part or peripheral. The work put into the videos is simply unmatched, with its scientific precision, in the space and it doesn’t go overboard in the recommendations. It keeps in mind everyday things like value for money, availability and practicality.
  - Smoosh 5y ago
    Agreed. Such a contrast to all the shouty, gossipy, attention-seeking channels. Just lays out the facts or opinions with high production values and (apart from sometimes repeating himself a little) no filler.
- phkahler 5y ago
  For quiet with integrated graphics I find this non-commercial 3d printed option quite nice: https://github.com/phkahler/mellori_ITX https://github.com/phkahler/mellori_ITX The one and only fan is the CPU fan, which is also used to blow air through the case and out holes in the bottom. I look forward to the next iteration, but my current system does everything I need without missing a beat. But then I'm biased in this area...
arvinsim 5y ago
Don't forget the NR200P [1] which is mass produced and cheap. [1]: https://www.coolermaster.com/sg/en-sg/catalog/cases/mini-itx/masterbox-nr200p/ https://www.coolermaster.com/sg/en-sg/catalog/cases/mini-itx...
015a 5y ago
My last two builds (going about ~7 years) have been mini ITX. The builds tend to be more frustrating (I wouldn't say harder; just more frustrating and longer), but the end result is always more pleasing. The biggest thing that I wish were more accessible within the mini-ITX form factor is 10Gbps ethernet. Maybe with thunderbolt it could now exist as an external dongle, with the right motherboard, but internally there's few options today. Very few mini-ITX boards offer anything faster than 1Gbps, and of course have no additional PCI-E slots (despite the chipset bandwidth being more than ample). I believe Intel's enthusiast Alder Lake chipset (x690 IIRC) specifies 2.5Gbps ethernet as minimum spec, which is nice; but it ain't 10Gbps. This is something that Mac just plain-out does better, no argument; the Mac Mini has had 10Gbps ethernet as an option for years.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- philg_jr 5y ago
  If you’re willing to pay, the supermicro Xeon-D mini-itx boards have 10Gbps NICs. ECC support is also nice.
  - teslabox 5y ago
    I've been looking for something low-cost with ECC memory for a NAS, the Xeon-D would probably work. Thanks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon_D#Design_Goals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon_D#Design_Goals
  - raffraffraff 5y ago
    Never heard of the Xeon D! Thanks!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  The NXP LX2K stuff has lots of networking IO. HoneyComb is a feature-rich Mini ITX platform [...] based on NXP’s [...] 16 core LX2160A Arm Cortex A72 (2GHz) offering up to 64GB DDR4 (dual channel) and up to 40GbE. https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/honeycomb-workstation/ https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/h...
acomjean 5y ago
I like handles. I had mac pros with them (g4 and original). My system76 mini desktop has a nice case and is significantly lighter, but the handles are a nice touch. The mention literally crashing the machine on the original design when the case broke, hopefully means this one is quite sturdy.
formerly_proven 5y ago
Big annoyance with SFF builds is noise. Many of these are overall smaller than just my GPU and CPU cooler, and SFX PSUs have smaller fans and aren’t available in passive configurations. And they’re usually more expensive than a more normal-sized build.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > Big annoyance with SFF builds is noise. Not really any more. Most popular mini-ITX cases for enthusiasts support 240mm AIOs for CPU cooling. Noctua even has low-profile air coolers that fit in some mini-ITX cases and rival their biggest heatsinks in performance. The SFX PSUs are slightly more expensive, but the good ones are so efficient that the fans won't even turn on during normal (non-gaming) use. Modern SFF builds can be extremely quiet.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    They do OK in noise-normalized tests, which are good for comparing and still relatively easy to perform. They're inadequate for quiet operation though. In fact the huge coolers I am using currently are barely adequate for their respective components - they require clearly audible fan speeds to avoid unhealthily high temperatures under sustained load. Certainly not extremely quiet; I'm not really happy with it, and I have the best air coolers with some of the best fans and the best thermal compound on the market and I have very carefully tuned fan profiles. Water cooling would offer slightly better cooling performance, but it has other issues - mainly pump and motor noise - plus it's rather expensive (more than 10x the cost of air cooling). You can of course make an extremely quiet SFF build, just not with an upper-midrange CPU and a highend GPU. With the same components you can make a decently quiet mid-tower desktop, like I have. ("Extremely quiet", "virtually noiseless" and so on are pet-peeve phrases of mine - I'm always assuming that marketing people are half-deaf because they keep referring to stuff emitting 20 dBa or more like this.)
    - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
      If your goal is as close to noiseless as possible, a big case with a lot of sound dampening material is the way to go. However, the modern SFF experience is much better than you give it credit for. An AMD 5950X with a 240mm AIO in a mini-ITX case is easy these days and it keeps the CPU temperature in a reasonable range. But if your goal is a no-compromise quietest build possible, obviously you don't want to get a small case. > plus it's rather expensive (more than 10x the cost of air cooling). I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers, but modern AIO water cooling isn't that expensive. You can get a good 240mm AIO cooler for about 1.5X the price of a good air cooler: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Radiator-Software-Control-Liquid/dp/B0829RTMKY/?tag=thowisguy-20 https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Radiator-Software-Control-Liq...
cerved 5y ago
but it doesn't fit my dual xeon supermicro EEATX
karmicthreat 5y ago
The Dr Zaber Sentry case is also pretty good http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/ http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/. I'm not sure they will make them again though. Mine is pretty nice, though you need to be careful about your GPU size.
charwalker 5y ago
r/sffpc is solid with a spreadsheet covering parts, cases, etc for compatibility and more. I just moved into a Lian Li Q58 from an SG05, bigger but cooler.
ChuckMcM 5y ago
> The days of needing a tower are over for most people. I'm all about space-saving while still having a full-power PC. Have you seen the air-cooler on a threadripper ?! :-) I don't really disagree with you but I like my old tower box because it has lots of room and easy to work on, and I realize that was why I liked my old car because engine compartment had lots of room to work.
- anticensor 5y ago
  MicroATX Threadripper boards are theoretically possible, if you go chipsetless like in X300 or EPYC.
- vluft 5y ago
  heck, I have an epyc on an almost-ITX (https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ROMED4ID-2T https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=R...) board now, and any of the noctua TR4/SP3 tower coolers will cool it fine.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
SergeAx 5y ago
I don't know about this "boutique" vibe. For me the entire idea of a desktop PC is saying "no" to any trade-offs. There's so little actual difference in footprint between those and classic middle-tower that it actually does not make any sense to me. Instead I prefer to have an ability to infinite expansion and upgrade. What if I want a super wide bandwidth storage for some data processing? I will buy an expansion PCI card for like 40 bucks and put 4 M.2 NVMes there as RAID0 stripe. Having an ability to expand RAM instead of trading in is quite good too. And last, but not least, a question of price. $200 for a case without PSU?!
- vhodges 5y ago
  The size difference can be substantial. I have an Antec something-500 from 15 years ago and a Caselabs ITX case that is larger (for custom cooling, etc - I never did use the space) and in 2018 transplanted the guts into a SFF from Sliger and I could fit four of my new case into the Caselabs case - and they are commanding quite the premium in the afterlife. Height and Width are less than my MacBook Pro (deeper of course but still only 13.5cm) I don't compromise on much, sure there's only a single PCIe slot but it's got a full size GPU in it (rx5700 reference design), a 650W Gold modular (SFX) power supply. RAM is 16G (lots for my use case - the MB is 2015, not sure it supports more - but with 64G sticks I don't think two slots is much of a limit), a M2 PCIe drive and a separate 2.5" SSD, two Noctua 120mm case fans and a decent after market CPU cooler. It's quiet and it runs cool. Lastly on price. A good quality power supply is going to run you 150-200 and most decent cases are in the 150-200 range without a power supply anyways. These are small run manufacturers too so that makes them pricy too, but they'll last 5-10 years (eg a couple of MB upgrades) so worth the investment to some. They are a pain in the ass to build in though :). (The Ghost looks a bit easier but wasn't really available at the time)
  - SergeAx 5y ago
    One PCI slot is effectively zero PCI slots because I don't know who is seriously using internal graphics. Maybe as a temporary solution to get things up and running and buy GPU later (doesn't work with AMD, though). This, by the way, is another perk of a desktop PC - the ability to postpone some upgrades. To expand the RAM you will have to buy new sticks first and then try to sell old ones, with the discount, of course. My ATX board supports 4 sticks, so I could start with just one 16Gb (with bandwidth penalty, but still) and pump it up to 64Gb without any reselling hussle. I am also a happy owner of ASRock B350 motherboard so it is 6 years from Zen 1 to Zen 3 all the way for me. I don't even want to start bragging about switching from air to water cooling for silence sake, I don't think it is even possible with mini ITX form factor. So, once again, for me the main perk of desktop PC is upgradability, and mini ITX seriously impairs that.
wlesieutre 5y ago
I had a mini ITX case (Node 202) and liked it well enough once it was all closed up, but even with a modular power supply it's a bit of a mess to get all the cables to fit, and it was a nuisance to open back up. The case went together with plastic clips that would rather snap off instead of releasing. But last time I upgraded my computer I switched to micro ATX and I'm happier with that size. Any maintenance or upgrades are a breeze with room to get your fingers around the components, I didn't need to buy a special low profile CPU cooler, it's small enough, and if I need an extra PCIe slot for something I've got it. The new computer is mounted it to under my desk where it's out of the way. Unless you're carrying your desktop around to LAN parties I think this is an overall nicer solution to "desktops take up space" than tiny form factor cases.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Do people still have LAN parties?
  - wlesieutre 5y ago
    I know someone who's building a mini ITX computer with one of AMD's APUs for convenient LAN party travel, so it's a non-zero number! Been years since I went to one.
  - wolrah 5y ago
    > Do people still have LAN parties? I averaged one or two a year through the 2010s, but my last one was in early 2020 for obvious reasons. While most games can be played over the internet these days and voice/video chat is now accessible enough that the experience can be pretty close, in the end there's still nothing like being in the same room as your friends when you're either cooperating to take down a raid boss or taunting them after a headshot.
    - wlesieutre 5y ago
      Exciting news for Halo: Infinite on this front, the Xbox folks can join you as long as they’re cool with playing against the mice and keyboards. https://www.pcgamer.com/halo-infinite-will-let-you-use-your-pc-to-host-cross-platform-lan-parties/ https://www.pcgamer.com/halo-infinite-will-let-you-use-your-... And maybe more importantly, LAN multiplayer actually exists in case of ISP problems, server outage, or trying to play the game in 20 years when the official servers are long gone.
zepolen 5y ago
> The days of needing a tower are over for most people. I'm all about space-saving while still having a full-power PC If you want a powerful space saving device, get a powerful laptop. If you want power, cooling, adaptability and room you get a tower. This mini desktop form factor is the worst of both worlds. There are laptops with 16 threads, a 3080, 2x nvme and 2x ram slots and weigh 5lbs that run at 70C at full throttle, 40C idling - oh and integrated 3 hour UPS. A tower otoh can fit 8+ disks, 2 or 3 gpus, plenty of quiet cooling and most importantly doesn't make you cuss every time you add/change a component because there is lots of room to get your hands in there. You want a portable tower? Get one with handles on it. How often do you really move it anyway.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
What happened to external graphics cards? That seems to be the way forward to me.
- cletus 5y ago
  Thunderbolt 3/4 max out at 40Gbps of bandwidth. PCIe 4.0 x16 (16 lanes) has a bandwidth of 32GB/s, which is 256Gbps. So external GPUs are always going to be inferior. Also, an external case incurs a lot of extra unavoidable costs. Essentially you have a mini-PC case, a TB to PCI-e bridge, a PCI-e interface and mount and possibly cooling as well. It's a nice idea and has some applications but on-chip GPUs as part of a fully-integrated SoC just makes way more sense for almost everybody.
Hamuko 5y ago
>I'm a big fan of this form factor, specifically just big enough to fit a motherboard/CPU/RAM plus a real-size GPU. This doesn't really fit any decent GPU at 180 mm. I think the single-fan ASUS RTX 3060 Phoenix is 177 mm and would just fit, but I'd be a bit worried about the cooling at that point.
chx 5y ago
The gathering place for fans is https://smallformfactor.net/forum/ https://smallformfactor.net/forum/
m463 5y ago
I like that case. Recently bought a zotac magnus (pre-built). It was a little pricey because it came with a 3070 but easily expandable. it takes 2 x m.2 ssd, 1 x 2.5" sata hd, 2 x laptop ram.
footlose_3815 5y ago
mini itx isn’t restricted to 2 DIMMs
stjohnswarts 5y ago
I have plenty of room so I like my tower, thank you very much. I have plenty of room and it allows me to play with various disk combos and multiple video cards. I love the mac mini for other reasons and use it as a NAS and multimedia center in my living room where space is as a premium for hiding away stuff. There is no reason to assume no one else has a need for other form factors than these mini computers.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I think being able to fit MicroATX gives you a bit more options and they are not that much larger. From the picture I would have guessed it could fit it. Nice overall look though. Size comparison motherboards for reference: https://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/userupload/user5555/Gaming_PC/ASUS_Mainboard_Formfaktoren.jpg https://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/user... Personally I use a midi tower at home.

by cletus 5y ago

fennecfoxy 5y ago

I bought a Louqe Ghost S1 from the original Kickstarter, I still love it. Solid as a rock, really high quality. There are a few minor design issues like the tophats warping if you screw them in too hard but otherwise it's the perfect form factor (plus it looks great). I built it with a 1080ti etc and it's had no cooling problems apart from the 2 m.2 ssds getting a little toasty (alleviated by adding a fan under where the psu sits; I cool using a 240mm radiator in the top so the motherboard wasn't getting much airflow from that).

fetus8 5y ago

I agree wholeheartedly. I built my first ITX machine at the beginning of 2021, and the case choices were fairly dire. The Ghost S1 was sold out, and finding anything else with a decent aesthetic that didn't cost $200+ USD was near impossible. I settled on a Silverstone SG13, which is great utilitarian case, and supports decent sized GPUs. Finding a GPU to fit a SFF case this year was a whole other issue, but I too am glad to see some more companies get into this space. I want some nicer ITX options, I want to see the variety that ATX and "larger" cases see.

cletus 5y ago
Before my Ghost some 7-8 years ago I built a SFF PC with a Silverstone case. IIRC it was the SG08. It's old enough that it had a tray and a slot to put a slimline optical drive. It wasn't a bad case and had a decent PSU included but it was a bit fiddly. For example, you had to remove a few things to get into the case properly. I also ended up breaking the wire to some button at the back. But yeah I sympathize with the issues in sourcing the Ghost. My first one took like 8 months to get.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

Agreed. There's an entire world of Small Form Factor cases available now with great features. This Teenage Engineering chassis is neat and has a cool aesthetic, but it's definitely a form-over-function design. Great if you're going for a certain vibe, but not ideal for a high power build, or even a quiet mid-range build. Those tiny fans and limited ventilation holes are not going to cut it for anything but a very low-power build. I'd be looking at the lowest power CPUs and GPUs available for this case. I'm not even sure why they limited it to such small (read: loud) fans when they seem to have the space for larger fans. Optimum Tech's YouTube channel has some great mini-ITX case reviews for anyone new to this space: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOpUFPiBs6QG1SlnIzM_oObD https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv8HwYhBwOOpUFPiBs6QG...

karolsputo 5y ago
Optimum Tech is the place to go when evaluating any PC part or peripheral. The work put into the videos is simply unmatched, with its scientific precision, in the space and it doesn’t go overboard in the recommendations. It keeps in mind everyday things like value for money, availability and practicality.
- Smoosh 5y ago
  Agreed. Such a contrast to all the shouty, gossipy, attention-seeking channels. Just lays out the facts or opinions with high production values and (apart from sometimes repeating himself a little) no filler.
phkahler 5y ago
For quiet with integrated graphics I find this non-commercial 3d printed option quite nice: https://github.com/phkahler/mellori_ITX https://github.com/phkahler/mellori_ITX The one and only fan is the CPU fan, which is also used to blow air through the case and out holes in the bottom. I look forward to the next iteration, but my current system does everything I need without missing a beat. But then I'm biased in this area...

arvinsim 5y ago

Don't forget the NR200P [1] which is mass produced and cheap. [1]: https://www.coolermaster.com/sg/en-sg/catalog/cases/mini-itx/masterbox-nr200p/ https://www.coolermaster.com/sg/en-sg/catalog/cases/mini-itx...

015a 5y ago

My last two builds (going about ~7 years) have been mini ITX. The builds tend to be more frustrating (I wouldn't say harder; just more frustrating and longer), but the end result is always more pleasing. The biggest thing that I wish were more accessible within the mini-ITX form factor is 10Gbps ethernet. Maybe with thunderbolt it could now exist as an external dongle, with the right motherboard, but internally there's few options today. Very few mini-ITX boards offer anything faster than 1Gbps, and of course have no additional PCI-E slots (despite the chipset bandwidth being more than ample). I believe Intel's enthusiast Alder Lake chipset (x690 IIRC) specifies 2.5Gbps ethernet as minimum spec, which is nice; but it ain't 10Gbps. This is something that Mac just plain-out does better, no argument; the Mac Mini has had 10Gbps ethernet as an option for years.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
philg_jr 5y ago
If you’re willing to pay, the supermicro Xeon-D mini-itx boards have 10Gbps NICs. ECC support is also nice.
- teslabox 5y ago
  I've been looking for something low-cost with ECC memory for a NAS, the Xeon-D would probably work. Thanks! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon_D#Design_Goals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon_D#Design_Goals
- raffraffraff 5y ago
  Never heard of the Xeon D! Thanks!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
CameronNemo 5y ago
The NXP LX2K stuff has lots of networking IO. HoneyComb is a feature-rich Mini ITX platform [...] based on NXP’s [...] 16 core LX2160A Arm Cortex A72 (2GHz) offering up to 64GB DDR4 (dual channel) and up to 40GbE. https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/honeycomb-workstation/ https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/h...

acomjean 5y ago

I like handles. I had mac pros with them (g4 and original). My system76 mini desktop has a nice case and is significantly lighter, but the handles are a nice touch. The mention literally crashing the machine on the original design when the case broke, hopefully means this one is quite sturdy.

formerly_proven 5y ago

Big annoyance with SFF builds is noise. Many of these are overall smaller than just my GPU and CPU cooler, and SFX PSUs have smaller fans and aren’t available in passive configurations. And they’re usually more expensive than a more normal-sized build.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Big annoyance with SFF builds is noise. Not really any more. Most popular mini-ITX cases for enthusiasts support 240mm AIOs for CPU cooling. Noctua even has low-profile air coolers that fit in some mini-ITX cases and rival their biggest heatsinks in performance. The SFX PSUs are slightly more expensive, but the good ones are so efficient that the fans won't even turn on during normal (non-gaming) use. Modern SFF builds can be extremely quiet.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  They do OK in noise-normalized tests, which are good for comparing and still relatively easy to perform. They're inadequate for quiet operation though. In fact the huge coolers I am using currently are barely adequate for their respective components - they require clearly audible fan speeds to avoid unhealthily high temperatures under sustained load. Certainly not extremely quiet; I'm not really happy with it, and I have the best air coolers with some of the best fans and the best thermal compound on the market and I have very carefully tuned fan profiles. Water cooling would offer slightly better cooling performance, but it has other issues - mainly pump and motor noise - plus it's rather expensive (more than 10x the cost of air cooling). You can of course make an extremely quiet SFF build, just not with an upper-midrange CPU and a highend GPU. With the same components you can make a decently quiet mid-tower desktop, like I have. ("Extremely quiet", "virtually noiseless" and so on are pet-peeve phrases of mine - I'm always assuming that marketing people are half-deaf because they keep referring to stuff emitting 20 dBa or more like this.)
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    If your goal is as close to noiseless as possible, a big case with a lot of sound dampening material is the way to go. However, the modern SFF experience is much better than you give it credit for. An AMD 5950X with a 240mm AIO in a mini-ITX case is easy these days and it keeps the CPU temperature in a reasonable range. But if your goal is a no-compromise quietest build possible, obviously you don't want to get a small case. > plus it's rather expensive (more than 10x the cost of air cooling). I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers, but modern AIO water cooling isn't that expensive. You can get a good 240mm AIO cooler for about 1.5X the price of a good air cooler: https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Radiator-Software-Control-Liquid/dp/B0829RTMKY/?tag=thowisguy-20 https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Radiator-Software-Control-Liq...

cerved 5y ago

but it doesn't fit my dual xeon supermicro EEATX

karmicthreat 5y ago

The Dr Zaber Sentry case is also pretty good http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/ http://zaber.com.pl/sentry/. I'm not sure they will make them again though. Mine is pretty nice, though you need to be careful about your GPU size.

charwalker 5y ago

r/sffpc is solid with a spreadsheet covering parts, cases, etc for compatibility and more. I just moved into a Lian Li Q58 from an SG05, bigger but cooler.

ChuckMcM 5y ago

> The days of needing a tower are over for most people. I'm all about space-saving while still having a full-power PC. Have you seen the air-cooler on a threadripper ?! :-) I don't really disagree with you but I like my old tower box because it has lots of room and easy to work on, and I realize that was why I liked my old car because engine compartment had lots of room to work.

anticensor 5y ago
MicroATX Threadripper boards are theoretically possible, if you go chipsetless like in X300 or EPYC.
vluft 5y ago
heck, I have an epyc on an almost-ITX (https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=ROMED4ID-2T https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=R...) board now, and any of the noctua TR4/SP3 tower coolers will cool it fine.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

SergeAx 5y ago

I don't know about this "boutique" vibe. For me the entire idea of a desktop PC is saying "no" to any trade-offs. There's so little actual difference in footprint between those and classic middle-tower that it actually does not make any sense to me. Instead I prefer to have an ability to infinite expansion and upgrade. What if I want a super wide bandwidth storage for some data processing? I will buy an expansion PCI card for like 40 bucks and put 4 M.2 NVMes there as RAID0 stripe. Having an ability to expand RAM instead of trading in is quite good too. And last, but not least, a question of price. $200 for a case without PSU?!

vhodges 5y ago
The size difference can be substantial. I have an Antec something-500 from 15 years ago and a Caselabs ITX case that is larger (for custom cooling, etc - I never did use the space) and in 2018 transplanted the guts into a SFF from Sliger and I could fit four of my new case into the Caselabs case - and they are commanding quite the premium in the afterlife. Height and Width are less than my MacBook Pro (deeper of course but still only 13.5cm) I don't compromise on much, sure there's only a single PCIe slot but it's got a full size GPU in it (rx5700 reference design), a 650W Gold modular (SFX) power supply. RAM is 16G (lots for my use case - the MB is 2015, not sure it supports more - but with 64G sticks I don't think two slots is much of a limit), a M2 PCIe drive and a separate 2.5" SSD, two Noctua 120mm case fans and a decent after market CPU cooler. It's quiet and it runs cool. Lastly on price. A good quality power supply is going to run you 150-200 and most decent cases are in the 150-200 range without a power supply anyways. These are small run manufacturers too so that makes them pricy too, but they'll last 5-10 years (eg a couple of MB upgrades) so worth the investment to some. They are a pain in the ass to build in though :). (The Ghost looks a bit easier but wasn't really available at the time)
- SergeAx 5y ago
  One PCI slot is effectively zero PCI slots because I don't know who is seriously using internal graphics. Maybe as a temporary solution to get things up and running and buy GPU later (doesn't work with AMD, though). This, by the way, is another perk of a desktop PC - the ability to postpone some upgrades. To expand the RAM you will have to buy new sticks first and then try to sell old ones, with the discount, of course. My ATX board supports 4 sticks, so I could start with just one 16Gb (with bandwidth penalty, but still) and pump it up to 64Gb without any reselling hussle. I am also a happy owner of ASRock B350 motherboard so it is 6 years from Zen 1 to Zen 3 all the way for me. I don't even want to start bragging about switching from air to water cooling for silence sake, I don't think it is even possible with mini ITX form factor. So, once again, for me the main perk of desktop PC is upgradability, and mini ITX seriously impairs that.

wlesieutre 5y ago

I had a mini ITX case (Node 202) and liked it well enough once it was all closed up, but even with a modular power supply it's a bit of a mess to get all the cables to fit, and it was a nuisance to open back up. The case went together with plastic clips that would rather snap off instead of releasing. But last time I upgraded my computer I switched to micro ATX and I'm happier with that size. Any maintenance or upgrades are a breeze with room to get your fingers around the components, I didn't need to buy a special low profile CPU cooler, it's small enough, and if I need an extra PCIe slot for something I've got it. The new computer is mounted it to under my desk where it's out of the way. Unless you're carrying your desktop around to LAN parties I think this is an overall nicer solution to "desktops take up space" than tiny form factor cases.

rglullis 5y ago
Do people still have LAN parties?
- wlesieutre 5y ago
  I know someone who's building a mini ITX computer with one of AMD's APUs for convenient LAN party travel, so it's a non-zero number! Been years since I went to one.
- wolrah 5y ago
  > Do people still have LAN parties? I averaged one or two a year through the 2010s, but my last one was in early 2020 for obvious reasons. While most games can be played over the internet these days and voice/video chat is now accessible enough that the experience can be pretty close, in the end there's still nothing like being in the same room as your friends when you're either cooperating to take down a raid boss or taunting them after a headshot.
  - wlesieutre 5y ago
    Exciting news for Halo: Infinite on this front, the Xbox folks can join you as long as they’re cool with playing against the mice and keyboards. https://www.pcgamer.com/halo-infinite-will-let-you-use-your-pc-to-host-cross-platform-lan-parties/ https://www.pcgamer.com/halo-infinite-will-let-you-use-your-... And maybe more importantly, LAN multiplayer actually exists in case of ISP problems, server outage, or trying to play the game in 20 years when the official servers are long gone.

zepolen 5y ago

> The days of needing a tower are over for most people. I'm all about space-saving while still having a full-power PC If you want a powerful space saving device, get a powerful laptop. If you want power, cooling, adaptability and room you get a tower. This mini desktop form factor is the worst of both worlds. There are laptops with 16 threads, a 3080, 2x nvme and 2x ram slots and weigh 5lbs that run at 70C at full throttle, 40C idling - oh and integrated 3 hour UPS. A tower otoh can fit 8+ disks, 2 or 3 gpus, plenty of quiet cooling and most importantly doesn't make you cuss every time you add/change a component because there is lots of room to get your hands in there. You want a portable tower? Get one with handles on it. How often do you really move it anyway.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

What happened to external graphics cards? That seems to be the way forward to me.

cletus 5y ago
Thunderbolt 3/4 max out at 40Gbps of bandwidth. PCIe 4.0 x16 (16 lanes) has a bandwidth of 32GB/s, which is 256Gbps. So external GPUs are always going to be inferior. Also, an external case incurs a lot of extra unavoidable costs. Essentially you have a mini-PC case, a TB to PCI-e bridge, a PCI-e interface and mount and possibly cooling as well. It's a nice idea and has some applications but on-chip GPUs as part of a fully-integrated SoC just makes way more sense for almost everybody.

Hamuko 5y ago

>I'm a big fan of this form factor, specifically just big enough to fit a motherboard/CPU/RAM plus a real-size GPU. This doesn't really fit any decent GPU at 180 mm. I think the single-fan ASUS RTX 3060 Phoenix is 177 mm and would just fit, but I'd be a bit worried about the cooling at that point.

chx 5y ago

The gathering place for fans is https://smallformfactor.net/forum/ https://smallformfactor.net/forum/

m463 5y ago

I like that case. Recently bought a zotac magnus (pre-built). It was a little pricey because it came with a 3070 but easily expandable. it takes 2 x m.2 ssd, 1 x 2.5" sata hd, 2 x laptop ram.

footlose_3815 5y ago

mini itx isn’t restricted to 2 DIMMs

stjohnswarts 5y ago

I have plenty of room so I like my tower, thank you very much. I have plenty of room and it allows me to play with various disk combos and multiple video cards. I love the mac mini for other reasons and use it as a NAS and multimedia center in my living room where space is as a premium for hiding away stuff. There is no reason to assume no one else has a need for other form factors than these mini computers.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I think being able to fit MicroATX gives you a bit more options and they are not that much larger. From the picture I would have guessed it could fit it. Nice overall look though. Size comparison motherboards for reference: https://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/userupload/user5555/Gaming_PC/ASUS_Mainboard_Formfaktoren.jpg https://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/user... Personally I use a midi tower at home.