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Spacex is building the transcontinental railroads of the solar system. There is mind boggling upside for them. I'm kinda disappointed Blue Origin seems to have

Spacex is building the transcontinental railroads of the solar system. There is mind boggling upside for them. I'm kinda disappointed Blue Origin seems to have fallen in a rut. I'm sure Musk will be happy to provide transportation for Bezos space colony construction projects! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Tycoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_Tycoon Edit My point isn't to disparage Bezos, but to highlight the fact that anyone with grand aspirations in orbit/solar system will have to go through Musk and Spacex until a competitor does appear. RE space colonies, I believe the natural sequence of events for space tourism is: sub orbital, oribital, long term orbital (a small space "hotel") culminating in orbital habitat ala O'Neil Cylinders. Cheap kg to orbit enables all of that.

yeetaccount 5y ago
Yeah but watching Bezos turn into a household joke is worth it.
- gremloni 5y ago
  He’s a household joke the same way Elon is a household joke.
  - oxplot 5y ago
    Bezos is a household joke even in Elon's household. Elon is a nightmare in Bezos'es. That's where the difference is.
    - waltbosz 5y ago
      Can someone explain the joke to me?
nine_k 5y ago
Transcontinental railroads provided routes between already populated areas, with viable trade between them. Solar system beyond Earth is more like a desert, possibly rich with resources, but nearly no resource is precious enough to be worth carrying by a starship. The incentives for space expansion past LEO and GEO will not be economical.
- marktangotango 5y ago
  That doesn't really hold up though. California has a lot desert and was sparsely settled until the gold rush for example. Also, in situ resource utilization is an area where technology and innovation are certain to provide advantage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ_resource_utilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ_resource_utilization
  - nine_k 5y ago
    California has a nice climate, lots of free air, some freshwater, several easily navigable havens for bulk transport. The barrier of settling there near the shore is pretty low, even if you don't trade much and just self-sustain. A more proper comparison would be Klondike. Inhospitable, barren Arctic land, rather hard to self-sustain, really easy to die. It was only interesting because of the rich gold deposits. Compared to that, Moon is like 100x the hardships of Klondike, but without the gold, and a ship back to Earth is so expensive that any cargo costs more than gold by weight. Or, at least, so it is now. There are no immediate economic incentives to settle on the Moon or Mars or even further away. But there are non-economic incentives, much like those which produced the Mayflower.
- jonathankoren 5y ago
  I often think of this observation by Bruce Sterling: > I'll believe in people settling Mars at about the same time I see people setting the Gobi Desert. The Gobi Desert is about a thousand times as hospitable as Mars and five hundred times cheaper and easier to reach. Nobody ever writes "Gobi Desert Opera" because, well, it's just kind of plonkingly obvious that there's no good reason to go there and live. It's ugly, it's inhospitable and there's no way to make it pay. Mars is just the same, really. We just romanticize it because it's so hard to reach. https://boingboing.net/2004/01/08/sterling-ill-believe.html https://boingboing.net/2004/01/08/sterling-ill-believe.html
  - marktangotango 5y ago
    Gobi desert doesn't have 1/3 earth gravity.
d33 5y ago
Do we know the Chinese part of the story? I feel like the western media hardly report anything on them while e.g. Wikipedia suggests that there are new developments happening all the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Manned_Space_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Manned_Space_Program How significant are those in practice?
Factorium 5y ago
Can we just build private space, lunar, and martian colonies? They could be financed by Tesla shareholders. The colonisation of the world by Europeans started with government investment, but eventually became self-sustaining. If these offworld colonies are free of political correctness, crime, taxes, welfare systems, and disease, and contain only beautiful, healthy, and intelligent people (via careful selection, including genetic screening and IQ tests, of permitted colonists), they could draw the best of humanity to them.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Are you familiar with the term "Company Town"? We have, collectively, quite a lot of history with the concept. The Soviet Union did quite a lot more with the idea than western countries did. The GULag system was just one collection of data points. The nuclear weapons reservations, space launch complexes, and bio-weapons towns were others. The experience was not, on average, considered inspirational.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    Oligarchs live well because they exploit their subjects.

yeetaccount 5y ago

Yeah but watching Bezos turn into a household joke is worth it.

gremloni 5y ago
He’s a household joke the same way Elon is a household joke.
- oxplot 5y ago
  Bezos is a household joke even in Elon's household. Elon is a nightmare in Bezos'es. That's where the difference is.
  - waltbosz 5y ago
    Can someone explain the joke to me?

nine_k 5y ago

Transcontinental railroads provided routes between already populated areas, with viable trade between them. Solar system beyond Earth is more like a desert, possibly rich with resources, but nearly no resource is precious enough to be worth carrying by a starship. The incentives for space expansion past LEO and GEO will not be economical.

marktangotango 5y ago
That doesn't really hold up though. California has a lot desert and was sparsely settled until the gold rush for example. Also, in situ resource utilization is an area where technology and innovation are certain to provide advantage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ_resource_utilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_situ_resource_utilization
- nine_k 5y ago
  California has a nice climate, lots of free air, some freshwater, several easily navigable havens for bulk transport. The barrier of settling there near the shore is pretty low, even if you don't trade much and just self-sustain. A more proper comparison would be Klondike. Inhospitable, barren Arctic land, rather hard to self-sustain, really easy to die. It was only interesting because of the rich gold deposits. Compared to that, Moon is like 100x the hardships of Klondike, but without the gold, and a ship back to Earth is so expensive that any cargo costs more than gold by weight. Or, at least, so it is now. There are no immediate economic incentives to settle on the Moon or Mars or even further away. But there are non-economic incentives, much like those which produced the Mayflower.
jonathankoren 5y ago
I often think of this observation by Bruce Sterling: > I'll believe in people settling Mars at about the same time I see people setting the Gobi Desert. The Gobi Desert is about a thousand times as hospitable as Mars and five hundred times cheaper and easier to reach. Nobody ever writes "Gobi Desert Opera" because, well, it's just kind of plonkingly obvious that there's no good reason to go there and live. It's ugly, it's inhospitable and there's no way to make it pay. Mars is just the same, really. We just romanticize it because it's so hard to reach. https://boingboing.net/2004/01/08/sterling-ill-believe.html https://boingboing.net/2004/01/08/sterling-ill-believe.html
- marktangotango 5y ago
  Gobi desert doesn't have 1/3 earth gravity.

d33 5y ago

Do we know the Chinese part of the story? I feel like the western media hardly report anything on them while e.g. Wikipedia suggests that there are new developments happening all the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Manned_Space_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Manned_Space_Program How significant are those in practice?

Factorium 5y ago

Can we just build private space, lunar, and martian colonies? They could be financed by Tesla shareholders. The colonisation of the world by Europeans started with government investment, but eventually became self-sustaining. If these offworld colonies are free of political correctness, crime, taxes, welfare systems, and disease, and contain only beautiful, healthy, and intelligent people (via careful selection, including genetic screening and IQ tests, of permitted colonists), they could draw the best of humanity to them.

ncmncm 5y ago
Are you familiar with the term "Company Town"? We have, collectively, quite a lot of history with the concept. The Soviet Union did quite a lot more with the idea than western countries did. The GULag system was just one collection of data points. The nuclear weapons reservations, space launch complexes, and bio-weapons towns were others. The experience was not, on average, considered inspirational.
- imtringued 5y ago
  Oligarchs live well because they exploit their subjects.