8 ms·

This, along with the WWVB station[0] that makes most of your "atomic" wall clocks work, is an underappreciated national (and international) resource that was al

by breput 5y ago

This, along with the WWVB station[0] that makes most of your "atomic" wall clocks work, is an underappreciated national (and international) resource that was almost shut down recently[1] due to budget cuts. I'm not going to link directly to any of them because of the Hacker News hug of death, but do a web search for "websdr", find a US based or nearby location, and try tuning to either 5000 kHz, 10000 kHz, or 15000 kHz (depending on the time of day - lower frequencies are usually better at night), AM mode, to listen in. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWVB [1] https://cqnewsroom.blogspot.com/2019/03/wwv-funding-restored-centennial.html https://cqnewsroom.blogspot.com/2019/03/wwv-funding-restored...

CamperBob2 5y ago
Yeah, I dunno, putting a hedge-fund manager at the head of the Commerce Department that is in charge of the national standards labs... One of those times when Congress should have had the courage to say, "No, Donny," but didn't.
- hereforphone 5y ago
  I prefer someone with knowledge of finance being the head of a department very heavily involved in finance. Whether or not the particular person was the right guy is a determination I personally wouldn't make on his job alone.
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    There's a vast gulf of knowledge in between a hedge funder famous for vulture capital restructuring and someone capable of effectively and prudently running a government department. It's like saying "I prefer someone technical managing my mainframe" after appointing a web designer to the role. I would literally have more faith in someone who had served as treasurer at a large church running the Commerce Department compared to someone like 83-year old Wilbur Ross.
LeoPanthera 5y ago
Or just buy a shortwave radio! They are still made, and a high quality shortwave antenna for receiving purposes is simply a length of wire, as long as possible, and as high as possible. The shortwave band (also known as “HF” radio) is a fascinating introduction to the subject, and while it is no longer full of long-range commercial radio stations, the propagation characteristics of the band mean it is still useful for things like WWV and amateur radio communication. If you live on the west coast, you can enjoy the pleasure of receiving both WWV (broadcast from Colorado) and WWVH (broadcast from Hawaii) at the same time, on the same frequency. Their voice announcements are intentionally offset so that they never overlap.
- jah 5y ago
  If you have one of the popular RTL-SDR's you may be able to pick up the HF bands by enabling the direct sampling mode (allows tuning between 500kHz - 28.8MHz). https://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-blog-v-3-dongles-user-guide/ https://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-blog-v-3-dongles-user-guide/
joezydeco 5y ago
NIST was the one that proposed closing the WWVs as a means of getting attention (and their full ask) during the 2019 budget negotiations. The good ol "Washington Monument" strategy.
potiuper 5y ago
Hard to justify the utility of the WWVB station with the coexistence of 4 going on 5 independent GPS systems along with telephone/cellular and internet systems. Pull is preferable over push given the use is not to be a canary; jamming a single time source is not strategically relevant. If it was there would be security at the station, but as is in a residential area some one could walk up with a power tool and take it down.
- hasmanean 5y ago
  One system is land based. The others are space based. The world needs redundancy especially in the presence of solar flares that can knock out satellites.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Hard to justify the utility of the WWVB station with the coexistence of 4 going on 5 independent GPS systems. All those GNSS systems use the same frequencies that can easily be jammed: * https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/GNSS_signal https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/GNSS_signal Even the US government themselves recognizes the importance of resiliency: * https://insidegnss.com/dot-report-on-backup-pnt-technologies-finds-nextnav-performs-best-calls-for-synthesis-and-synergy/ https://insidegnss.com/dot-report-on-backup-pnt-technologies... * https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-dot-releases-complementary-positioning-navigation-and-timing-pnt-and-gps-backup https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-dot-releases...
- breput 5y ago
  Shutting it down would have made every single existing radio controlled clock e-waste, overnight. And not just random wristwatches and wall clocks, but school and industrial clocks. None of these will work with GNSS signals.
  - potiuper 5y ago
    That's the point, to stop creating this e-waste. If those applications are critical, then the owners should never have bought vulnerable radio controlled clocks in the first place.
User23 5y ago
This reminds me of the first true atomic wristwatch[1]. [1] http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/

by breput 5y ago

CamperBob2 5y ago

Yeah, I dunno, putting a hedge-fund manager at the head of the Commerce Department that is in charge of the national standards labs... One of those times when Congress should have had the courage to say, "No, Donny," but didn't.

hereforphone 5y ago
I prefer someone with knowledge of finance being the head of a department very heavily involved in finance. Whether or not the particular person was the right guy is a determination I personally wouldn't make on his job alone.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  There's a vast gulf of knowledge in between a hedge funder famous for vulture capital restructuring and someone capable of effectively and prudently running a government department. It's like saying "I prefer someone technical managing my mainframe" after appointing a web designer to the role. I would literally have more faith in someone who had served as treasurer at a large church running the Commerce Department compared to someone like 83-year old Wilbur Ross.

LeoPanthera 5y ago

Or just buy a shortwave radio! They are still made, and a high quality shortwave antenna for receiving purposes is simply a length of wire, as long as possible, and as high as possible. The shortwave band (also known as “HF” radio) is a fascinating introduction to the subject, and while it is no longer full of long-range commercial radio stations, the propagation characteristics of the band mean it is still useful for things like WWV and amateur radio communication. If you live on the west coast, you can enjoy the pleasure of receiving both WWV (broadcast from Colorado) and WWVH (broadcast from Hawaii) at the same time, on the same frequency. Their voice announcements are intentionally offset so that they never overlap.

jah 5y ago
If you have one of the popular RTL-SDR's you may be able to pick up the HF bands by enabling the direct sampling mode (allows tuning between 500kHz - 28.8MHz). https://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-blog-v-3-dongles-user-guide/ https://www.rtl-sdr.com/rtl-sdr-blog-v-3-dongles-user-guide/

joezydeco 5y ago

NIST was the one that proposed closing the WWVs as a means of getting attention (and their full ask) during the 2019 budget negotiations. The good ol "Washington Monument" strategy.

potiuper 5y ago

Hard to justify the utility of the WWVB station with the coexistence of 4 going on 5 independent GPS systems along with telephone/cellular and internet systems. Pull is preferable over push given the use is not to be a canary; jamming a single time source is not strategically relevant. If it was there would be security at the station, but as is in a residential area some one could walk up with a power tool and take it down.

hasmanean 5y ago
One system is land based. The others are space based. The world needs redundancy especially in the presence of solar flares that can knock out satellites.
throw0101a 5y ago
> Hard to justify the utility of the WWVB station with the coexistence of 4 going on 5 independent GPS systems. All those GNSS systems use the same frequencies that can easily be jammed: * https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/GNSS_signal https://gssc.esa.int/navipedia/index.php/GNSS_signal Even the US government themselves recognizes the importance of resiliency: * https://insidegnss.com/dot-report-on-backup-pnt-technologies-finds-nextnav-performs-best-calls-for-synthesis-and-synergy/ https://insidegnss.com/dot-report-on-backup-pnt-technologies... * https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-dot-releases-complementary-positioning-navigation-and-timing-pnt-and-gps-backup https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-dot-releases...
breput 5y ago
Shutting it down would have made every single existing radio controlled clock e-waste, overnight. And not just random wristwatches and wall clocks, but school and industrial clocks. None of these will work with GNSS signals.
- potiuper 5y ago
  That's the point, to stop creating this e-waste. If those applications are critical, then the owners should never have bought vulnerable radio controlled clocks in the first place.

User23 5y ago

This reminds me of the first true atomic wristwatch[1]. [1] http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/ http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-bill/