4 ms·

It isn't that race just started mattering, it is that it has always mattered in the US - pitting "races" against each other was a primary means of control of th

It isn't that race just started mattering, it is that it has always mattered in the US - pitting "races" against each other was a primary means of control of the colonies, and slavery was a massive part of that. That intense racism built up institutions and systems that have race at their core. You can't just say, "well, race doesn't matter anymore" and expect things to suddenly change. You need to change the systems, and to change the systems you have to recognize that race was used in the creation of them, and so you need to use the lens of race to understand how they are discriminatory so you can fix them.

raxxorrax 5y ago
But you are pitting races against each other if you prefer one in hiring. You would also need to define a goal to justify discrimination, where I don't believe a feasible reason can exist. So technically, you are the racist if you support such policies.
- gilbetron 5y ago
  You need discrimination to end discrimination. If you and I are in a race, and I'm 100 laps ahead because I've been cheating and your pit crew gives you worse tires than me, you can't just fix the tires and pretend the race is fair. There needs to be an adjustment, but only a temporary adjustment, to make things fair again. That's the whole point. You can't just say, "ok, race doesn't matter anymore" and expect things to just be fine. The discriminatory systems will not fix themselves.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    > You need discrimination to end discrimination That is a false or at least unproved statement. > only a temporary adjustment, to make things fair again On the shoulders of innocents because they are associated by skin color to a group. We have to disagree here, I believe this is a completely wrong approach. It has been implemented a long while now and it is actually surprising it didn't have a larger net negative effect. So to what degree is it temporary? To me this is overlooking some of the most basic principles that lead to racism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics Interesting read, but it is pretty much deprecated by modern ethical considerations. But that is basically the proposal here. Laws for equal and unequal people.

raxxorrax 5y ago

But you are pitting races against each other if you prefer one in hiring. You would also need to define a goal to justify discrimination, where I don't believe a feasible reason can exist. So technically, you are the racist if you support such policies.

gilbetron 5y ago
You need discrimination to end discrimination. If you and I are in a race, and I'm 100 laps ahead because I've been cheating and your pit crew gives you worse tires than me, you can't just fix the tires and pretend the race is fair. There needs to be an adjustment, but only a temporary adjustment, to make things fair again. That's the whole point. You can't just say, "ok, race doesn't matter anymore" and expect things to just be fine. The discriminatory systems will not fix themselves.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  > You need discrimination to end discrimination That is a false or at least unproved statement. > only a temporary adjustment, to make things fair again On the shoulders of innocents because they are associated by skin color to a group. We have to disagree here, I believe this is a completely wrong approach. It has been implemented a long while now and it is actually surprising it didn't have a larger net negative effect. So to what degree is it temporary? To me this is overlooking some of the most basic principles that lead to racism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics Interesting read, but it is pretty much deprecated by modern ethical considerations. But that is basically the proposal here. Laws for equal and unequal people.