5 ms·

> And judge them by individual criteria, not what groups they happen to be part of. That sounds good on paper but in reality some groups of people have been le

by sumedh 5y ago

> And judge them by individual criteria, not what groups they happen to be part of. That sounds good on paper but in reality some groups of people have been left behind because of systematic racism. So you give special benefits to individuals from that group then that person becomes a role model for others in his/her group and can help them.

raxxorrax 5y ago
I think the perspective that a role model has to be from your ethnicity or needs to look like you is not correct. Especially for young kids. Not from the US but I believe the current disadvantages are still felt because the civil rights movement wasn't that long ago. Such inequality takes decades to vanish, IF policies actually do address inequality at all. Currently most countries face an increase in inequality. You can fight fire with fire, but I don't think this applies to racism for numerous other reasons. Such policies even underline an alleged difference between black and white people.
- sumedh 5y ago
  > I think the perspective that a role model has to be from your ethnicity or needs to look like you is not correct What makes you say that?
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    If I look up to someone because I like the music, art or their general achievements, I don't care much how they look like or more specifically that they are similar to me. On the contrary, it may be advantageous to see people your are on the line with that are completely different to you. Good lesson on how looks can be deceiving.
    - sumedh 5y ago
      > If I look up to someone Exactly and some others are different they look up to people who are the same race or speak the same language etc.
logicalmonster 5y ago
> have been left behind because of systematic racism Is it proven that it’s “systemic racism” that’s holding some people behind?
- sumedh 5y ago
  What do you think is holding some people behind?
  - logicalmonster 5y ago
    As far as I'm aware, there are 3 main categories of explanations. 1) Systemic racism. I'd like to see an example of systemic racism that's holding anybody behind in current year so we can work on it. But to me, the fact that at least some non-trivial percentage of white students reportedly lied about their race for an advantage in life (among Senators who have done the same) is very telling about what systemic advantages actually exist. 2) Cultural deterioration. I think certain aspects of musical and sports culture may play a role, but I don't know if I want to come across as a cranky old man here. 3) Biological differences & IQ. If a scientist as renowned as James Watson isn't allowed to broach this discussion without being immediately unpersoned, who am I to think double-plus ungood thoughts? I'm not sure what's the best explanation within the acceptable boundaries of public discourse.
    - sumedh 5y ago
      > I'd like to see an example of systemic racism that's holding anybody behind in current year so we can work on it. Let say there is Group A who have worked for free for Group B for generations. Group A also does not get home loans for generations Group A does not get business loans for generations. More members of Group A are also put in jail compared to Group B. Group B does not face those same issues, which group do you think will turn out better, which group will have more money and resources, will it be Group A or Group B? For points 2 and 3, do you think Group A and Group started at an equal level to make that comparison or do you think one of those groups was held behind due to the issues which I mentioned above?

by sumedh 5y ago

raxxorrax 5y ago

I think the perspective that a role model has to be from your ethnicity or needs to look like you is not correct. Especially for young kids. Not from the US but I believe the current disadvantages are still felt because the civil rights movement wasn't that long ago. Such inequality takes decades to vanish, IF policies actually do address inequality at all. Currently most countries face an increase in inequality. You can fight fire with fire, but I don't think this applies to racism for numerous other reasons. Such policies even underline an alleged difference between black and white people.

sumedh 5y ago
> I think the perspective that a role model has to be from your ethnicity or needs to look like you is not correct What makes you say that?
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  If I look up to someone because I like the music, art or their general achievements, I don't care much how they look like or more specifically that they are similar to me. On the contrary, it may be advantageous to see people your are on the line with that are completely different to you. Good lesson on how looks can be deceiving.
  - sumedh 5y ago
    > If I look up to someone Exactly and some others are different they look up to people who are the same race or speak the same language etc.

logicalmonster 5y ago

> have been left behind because of systematic racism Is it proven that it’s “systemic racism” that’s holding some people behind?

sumedh 5y ago
What do you think is holding some people behind?
- logicalmonster 5y ago
  As far as I'm aware, there are 3 main categories of explanations. 1) Systemic racism. I'd like to see an example of systemic racism that's holding anybody behind in current year so we can work on it. But to me, the fact that at least some non-trivial percentage of white students reportedly lied about their race for an advantage in life (among Senators who have done the same) is very telling about what systemic advantages actually exist. 2) Cultural deterioration. I think certain aspects of musical and sports culture may play a role, but I don't know if I want to come across as a cranky old man here. 3) Biological differences & IQ. If a scientist as renowned as James Watson isn't allowed to broach this discussion without being immediately unpersoned, who am I to think double-plus ungood thoughts? I'm not sure what's the best explanation within the acceptable boundaries of public discourse.
  - sumedh 5y ago
    > I'd like to see an example of systemic racism that's holding anybody behind in current year so we can work on it. Let say there is Group A who have worked for free for Group B for generations. Group A also does not get home loans for generations Group A does not get business loans for generations. More members of Group A are also put in jail compared to Group B. Group B does not face those same issues, which group do you think will turn out better, which group will have more money and resources, will it be Group A or Group B? For points 2 and 3, do you think Group A and Group started at an equal level to make that comparison or do you think one of those groups was held behind due to the issues which I mentioned above?