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Unlike coal, lithium does not get burned or used up. At least in principle, it can be recycled.

by sabertoothed 5y ago

hammock 5y ago
>it can be recycled Yet here we are talking about a lithium mine, which is not clean.
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  Can you go into detail as to how specifically it is not clean, and how it compares to the resource extraction of other things like steel, aluminum, oil, etc.
- wil421 5y ago
  So you’re saying we should continue to burn fossil fuels in our cars because lithium mining is dirty?
  - TrispusAttucks 5y ago
    It's okay to point out problems with a path to the future. It's also okay to still take that path even though it's not perfect. Eyes wide open. Lesser of two evils.
    - jcims 5y ago
      I'd promote it to essential. The problem is that in open conversation like this a simple statement like 'Yet here we are talking about a lithium mine, which is not clean' is insufficiently contextualized to know where the commenter is coming from. Are they just trying to be transparent and realistic? Are they someone that has no dynamic range in their understanding of ecological harm? Are they long in petroleum and want to throw interference up at any point where electrification of transport comes up? Are they just being a contrarian troll?
  - hammock 5y ago
    I'm saying "lithium recycling" isn't yet such a benefit that we don't need to keep mining additional lithium. Not to suggest OP was doing this, but it seems a bit weird to start your mouth watering at the notion of "I can't wait to strip 11 million tons of rock out of the side of this mountain, melt it down and refine it, so that we can start being clean with it by recycling."
- _coveredInBees 5y ago
  A big factor there is that demand for Lithium is growing drastically and we don't really have that amount of Lithium pre-mined and ready to be recycled in the first place.
supperburg 5y ago
Yes. The narrative that electrification just shifts around the pollution is so tired and untrue. The end to end pipeline of EVs is much more efficient than that of gas cars, so even if we start synthesizing fuels that are carbon neutral gas cars will lose. The only reason gas cars could ever exist is because of cheap and dirty fuel. The only car that makes sense in a sustainable system is an EV maybe with synthesized and carbon neutral hydrocarbon range extension for emergencies.
- wibagusto 5y ago
  I don’t think the point of contention is whether it’s recyclable. Primary issue is: what is the local environmental impact of MINING lithium? For folks who don’t live in Maine it’s a no-brainer: sure, go for it! Bring the USA more domestically produced lithium. But… mining fucks up entire ecosystems and pollutes water etc… and even if companies can “promise” the operation will be clean, come to implementation they likely walk back on that and the damage is done.
  - supperburg 5y ago
    I don’t suppose there’s a mining expert who could weigh in?
    - wibagusto 5y ago
      For what it’s worth you don’t need a mining expert to know that establishing a large scale mining operation will fuck up the local region somewhat. At the very least, all the demolition and vehicles, fuel, explosives, chemicals. Shits going to leak into the rivers one way or the other. In addition, they would likely use up a ton of local water supply. It’s a no-brainer. Maine is not in the middle of some desert.
      - hutzlibu 5y ago
        For what's it worth, I live in a area that has done extensive mining for over 1000 years with no big natural disaster caused by it. Today it is only operational by small scale in comparison, (and it never experienced the big chemical industious mining), but you absolutely can mine the earth without creating havoc. It is just a lot more expensive then. Which is why most mining is done in remote, or poor areas, with laughable regulations, where no one dares complain for the jobs.
SEJeff 5y ago
Lithium Ion batteries can mostly be recycled: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/10/tesla-jb-straubel-redwood-materials-battery-recycling.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/10/tesla-jb-straubel-redwood-ma...

Unlike coal, lithium does not get burned or used up. At least in principle, it can be recycled.

hammock 5y ago

>it can be recycled Yet here we are talking about a lithium mine, which is not clean.

gameswithgo 5y ago
Can you go into detail as to how specifically it is not clean, and how it compares to the resource extraction of other things like steel, aluminum, oil, etc.
wil421 5y ago
So you’re saying we should continue to burn fossil fuels in our cars because lithium mining is dirty?
- TrispusAttucks 5y ago
  It's okay to point out problems with a path to the future. It's also okay to still take that path even though it's not perfect. Eyes wide open. Lesser of two evils.
  - jcims 5y ago
    I'd promote it to essential. The problem is that in open conversation like this a simple statement like 'Yet here we are talking about a lithium mine, which is not clean' is insufficiently contextualized to know where the commenter is coming from. Are they just trying to be transparent and realistic? Are they someone that has no dynamic range in their understanding of ecological harm? Are they long in petroleum and want to throw interference up at any point where electrification of transport comes up? Are they just being a contrarian troll?
- hammock 5y ago
  I'm saying "lithium recycling" isn't yet such a benefit that we don't need to keep mining additional lithium. Not to suggest OP was doing this, but it seems a bit weird to start your mouth watering at the notion of "I can't wait to strip 11 million tons of rock out of the side of this mountain, melt it down and refine it, so that we can start being clean with it by recycling."
_coveredInBees 5y ago
A big factor there is that demand for Lithium is growing drastically and we don't really have that amount of Lithium pre-mined and ready to be recycled in the first place.

supperburg 5y ago

Yes. The narrative that electrification just shifts around the pollution is so tired and untrue. The end to end pipeline of EVs is much more efficient than that of gas cars, so even if we start synthesizing fuels that are carbon neutral gas cars will lose. The only reason gas cars could ever exist is because of cheap and dirty fuel. The only car that makes sense in a sustainable system is an EV maybe with synthesized and carbon neutral hydrocarbon range extension for emergencies.

wibagusto 5y ago
I don’t think the point of contention is whether it’s recyclable. Primary issue is: what is the local environmental impact of MINING lithium? For folks who don’t live in Maine it’s a no-brainer: sure, go for it! Bring the USA more domestically produced lithium. But… mining fucks up entire ecosystems and pollutes water etc… and even if companies can “promise” the operation will be clean, come to implementation they likely walk back on that and the damage is done.
- supperburg 5y ago
  I don’t suppose there’s a mining expert who could weigh in?
  - wibagusto 5y ago
    For what it’s worth you don’t need a mining expert to know that establishing a large scale mining operation will fuck up the local region somewhat. At the very least, all the demolition and vehicles, fuel, explosives, chemicals. Shits going to leak into the rivers one way or the other. In addition, they would likely use up a ton of local water supply. It’s a no-brainer. Maine is not in the middle of some desert.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      For what's it worth, I live in a area that has done extensive mining for over 1000 years with no big natural disaster caused by it. Today it is only operational by small scale in comparison, (and it never experienced the big chemical industious mining), but you absolutely can mine the earth without creating havoc. It is just a lot more expensive then. Which is why most mining is done in remote, or poor areas, with laughable regulations, where no one dares complain for the jobs.

SEJeff 5y ago

Lithium Ion batteries can mostly be recycled: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/10/tesla-jb-straubel-redwood-materials-battery-recycling.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/10/tesla-jb-straubel-redwood-ma...