5 ms·

i mean i feel like white dudes claiming to be a minority to poison the whole point of attempting to boost non-white representation is probably not a good exampl

i mean i feel like white dudes claiming to be a minority to poison the whole point of attempting to boost non-white representation is probably not a good example of 'positive discrimination'. a whole bunch of people destroying the purpose of attempted representation increases for minorities, while claiming it doesn't work because they broke it, is so comically disingenuous I have to assume you're doing it to harm us all.

draw_down 5y ago
Jumping to white “dudes” is funny. In America at least, the most famous examples of someone doing this are a white woman politician who blatantly lied about being Native American/First Nations, and a white woman who pretended to be black in order to run a local chapter of the NAACP.
thejackgoode 5y ago
Feels like you did not have a chance to read my comment because of the blur of fingerpointing too fast. When any system gives preference to an identity it's expected behavior to attempt to pass as a carrier of said identity. It does not matter what the identity is.
- hasmolo 5y ago
  i can understand how you'd feel that way. i'm addressing this: > It's ironic how "positive discrimination" produces incentives that make life of minorities worse and now you're saying: > When any system gives preference to an identity it's expected behavior to attempt to pass as a carrier of said identity. It does not matter what the identity is. this is where we disagree, you are implying that people using a lie about race is 'harming' minorities here, but it isn't. some people are taking advantage of it, but the hyper majority aren't. i think our core difference is this: i don't think the people here abusing the system are actually having a meaningful impact or harm on those that this program actually helps. i think that acting like that's the case to remove this condition is the more long term harmful effect. in the end we disagree on the impact of the people abusing this system, and i don't imagine we will be able to agree on this, but i appreciate the perspective you've given me.
zhdc1 5y ago
> a whole bunch of people destroying the purpose of attempted representation increases for minorities, while claiming it doesn't work because they broke it, is so comically disingenuous I have to assume you're doing it to harm us all This is an unfortunate reality when it comes to implementing government policy. Regulations have material outcomes, and people will (legally and, sometimes, deceptively) adjust their behavior to take advantage of these outcomes. In some cases, these adjustments reduce, or even negate, the intended benefit of the policy. It doesn't mean that the original policy was wrong, or even ineffective. It's just that unexpected consequences can emerge over time from dynamic processes, and policy implementation is never as simple as "see problem, implement policy, done".
zo1 5y ago
I think it balances out with forced "diversity" hires that shine a very negative light on their respective groups. It actually back fires in that it's probably a "thing" now and people have learned to be doubly-sure about whether an ethnic person is really good or just a diversity-hire. It's just layers of non-sense, BS and marketing when we really should just be treating people as individuals.
raxxorrax 5y ago
On the job market people are competitors. Change the system if you will but that is the reality today. Positive discrimination ensures that there now is also a racial component. White people against black people.

draw_down 5y ago

Jumping to white “dudes” is funny. In America at least, the most famous examples of someone doing this are a white woman politician who blatantly lied about being Native American/First Nations, and a white woman who pretended to be black in order to run a local chapter of the NAACP.

thejackgoode 5y ago

Feels like you did not have a chance to read my comment because of the blur of fingerpointing too fast. When any system gives preference to an identity it's expected behavior to attempt to pass as a carrier of said identity. It does not matter what the identity is.

hasmolo 5y ago
i can understand how you'd feel that way. i'm addressing this: > It's ironic how "positive discrimination" produces incentives that make life of minorities worse and now you're saying: > When any system gives preference to an identity it's expected behavior to attempt to pass as a carrier of said identity. It does not matter what the identity is. this is where we disagree, you are implying that people using a lie about race is 'harming' minorities here, but it isn't. some people are taking advantage of it, but the hyper majority aren't. i think our core difference is this: i don't think the people here abusing the system are actually having a meaningful impact or harm on those that this program actually helps. i think that acting like that's the case to remove this condition is the more long term harmful effect. in the end we disagree on the impact of the people abusing this system, and i don't imagine we will be able to agree on this, but i appreciate the perspective you've given me.

zhdc1 5y ago

> a whole bunch of people destroying the purpose of attempted representation increases for minorities, while claiming it doesn't work because they broke it, is so comically disingenuous I have to assume you're doing it to harm us all This is an unfortunate reality when it comes to implementing government policy. Regulations have material outcomes, and people will (legally and, sometimes, deceptively) adjust their behavior to take advantage of these outcomes. In some cases, these adjustments reduce, or even negate, the intended benefit of the policy. It doesn't mean that the original policy was wrong, or even ineffective. It's just that unexpected consequences can emerge over time from dynamic processes, and policy implementation is never as simple as "see problem, implement policy, done".

zo1 5y ago

I think it balances out with forced "diversity" hires that shine a very negative light on their respective groups. It actually back fires in that it's probably a "thing" now and people have learned to be doubly-sure about whether an ethnic person is really good or just a diversity-hire. It's just layers of non-sense, BS and marketing when we really should just be treating people as individuals.

raxxorrax 5y ago

On the job market people are competitors. Change the system if you will but that is the reality today. Positive discrimination ensures that there now is also a racial component. White people against black people.