23 ms·

“Dune” (The Movie), Annotated

247 points by sebg 5y ago

TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
Like where it was going; left after the third random, unrelated political comment.
noisy_boy 5y ago
I have read the book so the movie was nice for me. I think what this movie would have benefited from is a prequel. Setup the background and then come to the present movie.
notum 5y ago
This is, by far, more entertaining than the new movie itself. Excellent read!
- goldcd 5y ago
  I very much enjoyed the new movie - and having watched it, think this so far looks like an excellent companion to it.
- drugones 5y ago
  Agree,the movie is ok and well done within Villeneuve high standards, but as expected a 2 parts movie is not enough to describe the depths of the Dune book. Maybe a trilogy or limited series would give more breath to describe the complex world and the size of the events; hopefully an extended version will bring some life into it.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    Have you watched the SciFi (before it was SyFy) channel Dune and Children of Dune miniseries? Probably about 12 hours long, I enjoyed it.
    - gmueckl 5y ago
      The Dune miniseries is about 4,5 hours long. If the second Dune movie will have a similar length to the first one, the pair is going to be more than 5 hours long in total. So the movies wouldn't have to be more compressed. That surprised me a little.
      - ModernMech 5y ago
        Me too actually when I saw the runtime. I guess when you take out the commercials it adds up!
    - the_af 5y ago
      Unfortunately the SyFy adaptation reeked of cheapness to me. Plot-wise better than Lynch's movie, but aesthetically terrible, and with some pretty bad acting too.
      - doodpants 5y ago
        Eh, yes and no. A lot of the outdoor scenes and effects look pretty poor, presumably due to TV-level funding, but the interior set design and costume design are excellent IMHO. Also, the only bad actor was the one playing Paul; I thought everyone else was fine.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  > An essential fact of the Dune universe — but one that goes unmentioned in the movie — is that there are no computers. Around 10,000 years before the events of Dune, a mass galactic revolt — the Butlerian Jihad — against “thinking machines” ended in a new commandment, adopted by the universe’s many religious sects: “Man may not be replaced.” That part is very interesting, I wonder why it wasn't ever mentioned. It explains SO MANY things.
  - Scarblac 5y ago
    As far as I recall, it was never explained in the book either. At some point it clicked, but I don't think it was in the first book. Maybe it was explained in the glossary that people mention here, but my books didn't have one.
_hao 5y ago
If you haven't watched the film yet, make yourself a favour and watch it in IMAX if possible.
- skellera 5y ago
  I thought it would be fine to watch on HBO Max but I’m glad I didn’t. The sound adds to the scale of the movie in a way that I don’t think is possible at home without a serious system. Saw it in Dolby Cinema which, I think, is an IMAX competitor.
  - therealdrag0 5y ago
    Dolby Cinema uses similar tech to IMAX Laser (Dolby is technically superior but arguably not at a level humans would notice in practice), both of which are superior to non-laser IMAX or any other theater type. The main difference is IMAX has a taller aspect ratio, which is probably worth it for movies shot in that format.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  It was pretty good in IMAX given the grand score and cinematography but it was actually the movie experience that convinced me on average I get better experience at home. Cutting off the few % of worst experiences + extra freedom by watching at home is well worth sacrificing a smallish (for me) comparatively improvement from watching at the cinema.
- baq 5y ago
  this is the most critical thing to remember about this movie and cannot be repeated enough. unless you have a top 1% home theater setup, you should see this in IMAX. i'm seeing a lot of bad reviews from people who obviously watched it at home on a mediocre TV set in a living room. this movie deserves better.
  - abenga 5y ago
    Even if you have a top 1% home theater set up (and I do), the HBO Max release uses the cinematic aspect ratio (2.40:1?) with giant letterboxes top and bottom throughout, which cuts out a giant proportion out of the scenes filmed on IMAX cameras. I watched both a day apart, and the home video release is barely the same film (I exaggerate, but it's almost true).
skellera 5y ago
I was telling my partner that I felt the movie was meant for people who read the book. She thought it was boring. It’s missing a lot of smaller context and seems dull without it. But if you’ve read the book(s), it’s actually a pretty good visual of the series. It would take too long and be dull to everyone if we sat through explanations of everything. This is a great supplement to anyone who didn’t read the book but saw the movie. That said, the book would probably be even better for that.
- mzaccari 5y ago
  I had tried to get into Dune many years ago, but found it hard to keep track of all that was going on. I wish I had pushed through, because I'm now enthralled by the Dune universe. I can say that the movie helped lay a foundation for me that has made the book far more enjoyable - to the point where I'm almost finished with the audiobook after only starting it last week!
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    One thing that helped me with Dune is using the glossary at the back of the book. It's a bit odd and some might say due to bad writing, but he will just start using a word without ever letting you know what it means. The only way to know is from the glossary. Also, don't be afraid to consult a dictionary in some cases. I remember the word "qanat" appears a lot in some of the later books and I just ploughed through without even know what it was. Just look things up and you'll get more out of it.
    - toyg 5y ago
      > some might say due to bad writing Anybody can come up with a new language that happily condenses the concepts you need to have in your new world, but forcing the reader to read an encyclopedia to decipher it is just lazy. You are meant to weave the explanations in your narrative, so the reader picks them up seamlessly. It's a bit like building a UI that is unusable without reading a boring manual.
lqet 5y ago
I wish there was something similar for Jodorowsky's unrealized Dune project (or even an online version of the storyboard). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW-Js7JcF1I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW-Js7JcF1I
- FelipeCortez 5y ago
  Here’s the online version of the storyboards! https://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowskys-dune-uncovered/1 https://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowskys-dune-uncovered/1
  - lqet 5y ago
    Thank you!
mensetmanusman 5y ago
Dune is so deep I kind of wish they had went the Mandalorian route. Take it slow, shoot for 100 hours of high quality story telling, give people time to enjoy the characters.
- jstx1 5y ago
  Do you think anything was rushed in the movie? I don't think there is 100 hours of story to tell or maybe you're talking about the whole series not just the first book? (and even then it's a lot)
  - wernercd 5y ago
    I think it'd be a good trilogy... or small series. Dozen hours... not 2. not 100.
  - croes 5y ago
    Just remember they made 3 movies from The Hobbit
    - jstx1 5y ago
      That's kind of my point - when you stretch the source material too thin you end up with a crappy movie.
    - globular-toast 5y ago
      Yeah and there wasn't 9 hours worth of story to tell hence all the completely pointless fluff and endless CGI. Lord of the Rings (the theatrical versions) is still the gold standard for a difficult, large-scale fantasy adaptation as far as I'm concerned.
    - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
      The only way I ever want to watch that one again is a fan edit I heard about that cuts off the excess cruft. Lord of the Rings was a dedicated labor of love and is IMO still the (set of) films ever made. The Hobbit was a cynical attempt to try and cash in on LotR's success and mindshare, but it was doomed to fail from the start for not having the same team and amount of creative control behind it. In hindsight, I wish Peter Jackson was allowed to make The Hobbit first, then the LotR trilogy as we know it. The Hobbit could have been a film that never needed the huge budget it got in the end.
VortexDream 5y ago
> OK: But what does this have to do with the glowglobes? The thing about writing a sci-fi book where your big shtick is that There Are No Computers is that you can no longer use “Very Advanced Computers” as your hand-waving explanation for how anything works. So Herbert, one of the great sci-fi writers, came up with a new hand-waving explanation: “The Holtzman Field Generator.” The explanation for any cool non-human tech in the Dune universe is: Holtzman Fields. How do spaceships fly? Holtzman Fields! How do shields work? Holtzman Fields! How do glowglobes float? Say it with me now: “the secondary (low-drain) phase of a Holtman Field Generator.” This is hilarious. I think I'm going to enjoy reading the whole thing.
- nervousvarun 5y ago
  Yeah with Dune you sortof just have to ignore the tech. It never makes much sense. Later on the books get heavy into bio-engineering. Some really strange stuff in the books w/ clones (and multiples/generations of the same clones) etc. The film sorta hinted at it a bit with the spider creature thing (which is not in the original book) but...one of the distinct things about the Dune universe is anything "alien" is really just weird Human bio-engineering.
  - dragonshed 5y ago
    I felt the opposite when I read the books. I thought it was rather clever that Frank Herbert invented a physical force [1] which accounts for much of the interesting tech that isn't possible or feasible in reality. I just wish there was more detail. [1] https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Holtzman_Effect https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Holtzman_Effect
- teachrdan 5y ago
  This makes one of my favorite Onion articles a lot more pointed: "Sci-Fi Writer Attributes Everything Mysterious To 'Quantum Flux'" https://www.theonion.com/sci-fi-writer-attributes-everything-mysterious-to-quant-1819570928 https://www.theonion.com/sci-fi-writer-attributes-everything...
jstx1 5y ago
Dune was the only book for which I had trouble keeping track of what's going on as I'm reading. It's like the writing didn't invoke any mental images, some of the characters were interchangeable in my head and I had to constantly reread paragraphs to figure out what's happening. The movie was an okay adaption but it's not a great experience to leave the cinema halfway through a movie and maybe see the second half in a couple of years.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Whilst Dune brought a lot of fantastic concepts to sci-fi, I also sometimes feel like it brought one of the worst ideas to the genre as well; make up a load of random words so everything feels more alien. Its all made worse by the fact that, in an effort to rid the book of stilted exposition, the meanings of the words are explained once or twice in passing mentions, and seem to be replacements for real words fairly arbitrarily (you try to remember one word only to find its never mentioned again, another it turns out is vital to the plot). Though I guess that is to be expected of anything which has has such a vast influence on a genre, no book is perfect.
  - dualboot 5y ago
    I agree. When this method is overused it can be difficult to grok the material.
    - Scarblac 5y ago
      I smurfed what you smurfed there.
  - the_af 5y ago
    Most words in Dune aren't random though. They are alternative spellings of Arabic words (in some cases, the real world spelling), some French, etc.
    - bodge5000 5y ago
      From a bit of research this does appear to be true, at least partially, although the meanings are also a bit different. Either way, the affect was the same, both in terms of how it influenced others and how it felt to read. Though it does make me wonder how it treats the arabic translations. The obvious answer would be to keep the words the same, but if thats the case then the use of different languages would seem a bit arbitrary. Maybe English words are used in the Arabic translations (though I doubt it)
dgan 5y ago
I tried the book (not a native English speaker) and couldn't go further than first 2 pages. It's just filled with random words with no explanations (yet?) On the other side of spectrum I remember reading reading Zelazny Chronicles of Amber, as a kid (translated to my language) and absolutely loved it
- guscost 5y ago
  You probably want to start with the glossary and historical notes at the back. Otherwise, yeah, the first time through will not make much sense.
- mmcdermott 5y ago
  I was discussing this recently and I compared it to the Lord of the Rings. Both authors are writing novels in complex constructed worlds. Where they strongly differ is how they handle this. Tolkien mixes in a lot of explanation. The history of the Ring is told twice, once in Hobbiton and once in Rivendell and both times we receive the background information as explained to an audience surrogate character (Frodo). Herbert goes the opposite way. He simply starts using terminology and referencing entities and histories as though you already know them. You pick it up by osmosis (and newer editions of the book, like the one I read, have a large glossary in the back to simplify matters), but never really get a thorough explanation of the world we are in. I think this is one of the reasons that the Dune Encyclopedia was so popular early on. It's telling that Tolkien never really worked on the Middle Earth guidebooks, but Herbert did. The Chronicles of Amber flat-out rocked.
- criddell 5y ago
  I've tried to read the book a few times but have never succeeded. Last weekend I watched the movie at home and absolutely loved it. I only wish part two was available. For me, this movie is one of the few book-based movies that is significantly better than the book.
- the_af 5y ago
  Note most of the "alien" words in Dune are not random, but alternative spellings of words from Arabic, French, etc.
bodge5000 5y ago
I haven't seen the movie yet (and to be honest probably wont for some time) but this gives me the same apprehension I've had for it for the past year or so. Half of the shots look perfect, exactly as I want from Dune. The other half look like quite boring, modern big budget sci-fi movie. The trailer had the same effect, some of the costume design was fantastic, but the ships looked a bit dull and the cinematic orchestral score is a pretty big red flag to me. Not that it sounds bad, it just doesn't sound all that memorable or interesting. A little bit like the "default" horror movie trailer music you here, its not nessecarily bad or unfitting, it just tells you a lot about how much the movie is pushing the boundaries of the genre. But, I haven't seen it, so I don't know.
- wrfitch 5y ago
  The soundtrack isn't all orchestral - there's a good amount of diversity in its instruments that are used to serve the story well. I really enjoyed it, apart from the standard-issue Zimmer BWAH accompanying every story beat.
  - TremendousJudge 5y ago
    I thought that the soundtrack was the most forgettable part of the movie. It's like they reused half the music from Dunkirk. There's no theme to the film that's stuck in your head after you leave the theater, nothing else special about it. It feels like filler
api 5y ago
I still like the David Lynch Dune. I know a lot of people hate it and I agree that it has a lot of problems, but the batshit weirdness of it seemed to jive with the feel of the novel. The Guild navigator alone is a masterpiece. The fact that it looks simultaneously uncanny and silly actually gave it a certain weird realism. If humans really did mutate like that the result would not obey any Hollywood rule of badassery and could well look silly. A platypus and an aardvark are silly looking but are great examples of adaptation to a specialized niche. I imagine flying a transdimensional space drive while hotboxing psychedelic nootropics would be a weird niche too. I just can’t get over the hotboxing shaman piloted flying bong spaceship as a concept. The Mentat mantra from the Lynch Dune is also great and I don’t think it appears in the book. I have my own version: “It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of coffee that thoughts acquire speed. The teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning.”
- bena 5y ago
  Frank Herbert liked Lynch's Dune. So there's that. I'm also in the camp of having liked it. Maybe because I saw it young, but I'll still watch it today. There's a ton of memorable scenes and quotable lines.
pgt 5y ago
Frank Herbert was a mycologist. It is not widely known that the blue eyes of the Fremen in Dune are an homage to the cerulean blue of Psilocybe mushrooms. In Chapter 9 of Mycelium Running, Paul Stamets reveals: “Frank went on to tell me that much of the premise of Dune—the magic spice (spores) that allowed the bending of space (tripping), the giant sand worms (maggots digesting mushrooms), the eyes of the Fremen (the cerulean blue of Psilocybe mushrooms), the mysticism of the female spiritual warriors, the Bene Gesserits (influenced by the tales of Maria Sabina and the sacred mushroom cults of Mexico)—came from his perception of the fungal life cycle, and his imagination was stimulated through his experiences with the use of magic mushrooms.” — https://www.bartkasperolaw.com/dunes-magic-mushroom-origin-story/ https://www.bartkasperolaw.com/dunes-magic-mushroom-origin-s...
- hoseja 5y ago
  But they are beige...?
  - pgt 5y ago
    They turn blue when cut: https://shroombros.co/the-mystery-solved-why-magic-mushrooms-turn-blue/ https://shroombros.co/the-mystery-solved-why-magic-mushrooms...
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      Or when they are bruised.
- Garvey 5y ago
  Having heard the name for only the second time, I can only assume the Stamets of Star Trek Discovery is so called as a foreshadowing of his involvement with the mycelial network
  - banana_giraffe 5y ago
    Yep, Aaron Harberts, a producer of Discovery, commented that he named Staments after the real life mycologist.
zfxfr 5y ago
I love Dune. I read all the books. I love it so much that I read some of the books in French (my native language) and also in English ! I did not start by reading the first book of the serie. Instead i begun reading the "Emperor God of Dune" it's probably my favorite. If i had started by the first book i don't whether i would have read all the others. So I did not expect much of this movie. I enjoyed watching it (and giving some details to my wife) but I hope the rest of the story will be adapted in movie. I think the movie is a good introduction to the rest of the story (kind of like the book)
- hasmolo 5y ago
  God Emperor of Dune is great!
- Scarblac 5y ago
  Wow, how did you end up starting with that? I agree that it is great, but I can also imagine others having the complete opposite opinion. It's certainly a direction you don't expect the series to take, just from the first one or two :-)
the_af 5y ago
I wonder why people find the book Dune difficult? It's very short and the prose is straightforward. Most "alien" words are real-world words with alternative spellings. There is a glossary, and in any case Lord of the Rings language (English and made up) is way more difficult. The plot of A Game of Thrones is likewise harder to follow than Dune's, with more factions, more intrigue, and mysteries that are still unfolding many books within the series. There is political intrigue in Dune ("plots within plots within plots") but it's often explained out loud or with inner monologue by the main characters. The Baron Harkonnen explains very early his plot; a deeper conspiracy is soon explained by other characters. The religion and manipulation of the Bene Gesserit is explained very clearly by Jessica. There are almost no "long" mysteries that are not explained close to their introduction. The book also wears its real-world influences on its sleeves. So the plot is not particularly convoluted, the prose is straightforward and the made up words have real equivalents (mostly). So why do people find it difficult?
- dosethree 5y ago
  Theres a lot going on in Dune, not all of it is explained up front. Its the kind of book where earlier parts make more sense later because theres not a crazy amount of exposition explaining things and how the world works, and theres a lot to digest. The movie ends up being kind of worse in this regard for people new to Dune
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  For me its just that you have to get through a lot of world/universe building before anything really happens. I struggle with books that want me to learn about insert alien history before telling me why i need to care about this specific alien race. But I'm going to read the book now. Normally having a visual to put to the words helps me get through that stuff.
  - the_af 5y ago
    > you have to get through a lot of world/universe building before anything really happens I'm re-reading the novel right now and there really isn't that much world-building. It's a slow burn (in a very short novel), but akin to the set up to the drama in, say, Hamlet; characters making their moves and preparing their traps, and it bears fruit in the second half. The world building is way less complex than Lord of the Ring or A Game of Thrones. I know people also complain about those, but they are also wildly successful novels so they must be doing something right. Way less obscure than Dune, in any case.
impostervt 5y ago
Loved this line: "Being a Bene Gesserit is like being what people on Instagram who tell you to drink your own urine think they are."
simonh 5y ago
Over my long film watching life I've learned that there can actually be a lot of value in watching very well made movies in genre's I don't like. I learn more about cinema, the different ways it's made and what works and what doesn't. It's the same with music, very well made and especially innovative music in any genre can be interesting to listen to. In fact sometimes the fact the genre doesn't appeal to me I think allows that to fall away, to an extent, so I can see the practice of the craft more clearly. This might be true of books too, but the time investment in reading books in genres that don't appeal to me is too much. My wife didn't like the Dune movie, but my teenage daughters loved it. None of them have read the book, or had any explanation of it before walking into the theatre. Honestly I think it's just that people have different tastes. Any change to make the film more digestible to people likely to bounce off it would also probably weaken it for those predisposed to enjoy it. Dune is an exceptionally skilled and personal implementation of very particular creative vision. That is true of both the book and this film. The result is not for everyone for sure, not all art is, but the film and the book are both incredible works of art.
eddiezane 5y ago
I've always thought that the Missionaria Protectiva was coolest concept in Dune. The "religious engineering". The idea that over thousands of years the Bene Gesserit have seeded fake prophecy and religion throughout the universe to "primitive worlds". A Bene Gesserit visiting one of these worlds is trained to fulfill these prophecies and basically weaponize the locals. I don't know why it blows my mind but it does. Has modern scifi used this idea anywhere?
- JohnKacz 5y ago
  Great video talking about just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjC5JLNFczY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjC5JLNFczY
- disantlor 5y ago
  same; this is the part I always end up trying to explain to people when talking up Dune. The monolith in 2001 is kind of a similar idea.
- tantalor 5y ago
  Its ironic because 1, the BG have their own phrophesy (Kwisatz Haderach) they actually believe and 2, on Dune the "fake phrophesy" comes true.
- jakamau 5y ago
  Not quite the same, but for a book that shows the power of weaponized empathy, Richard Morgan's "Altered Carbon" (the book version specifically) has the envoys as empathic super-soldiers. When you can easily move a consciousness into different bodies, the most dangerous opponents are those that can empathize with their enemy to such a degree that they can pass as one of them seamlessly and unconsciously predict their motives and reactions.
- andreilys 5y ago
  I know Foundation series also toys with this concept, where “religion” is used as a way to neutralize enemy worlds and rebuild the empire
- bigwavedave 5y ago
sodality2 5y ago
I love annotating shows and movies, several of my friends looked at me so strangely when I was taking notes while watching NGE but sometimes the plot is so complicated it necessitates it to fully understand and appreciate it. The first watch is always regular though, if I come out confused I'll rewatch it.
guscost 5y ago
Great movie. This bit sums up my feelings: > Basically any quibbles or hesitations are erased by images like the above, of the Bene Gesserit departing that spaceship, and about which I can only say: That’s fucking sick as hell. This shit rules.
sajuuk 5y ago
In case the creator of the site is reading: The bullfighting statue is most likely an analogy regarding the conflict with the harkonnen. The harkonnen name stems apparently from Härkönen which derives from the finnish name for ox. In the movie Leto says that his father already practiced bullfighting, which could be a hint towards the ongoing conflict between the houses.
- radu_floricica 5y ago
  It was pretty obvious for everybody that the "promotion" to Arrakis was a trap, including to Leto. They're never surprised the attack is coming, just that it's sooner and larger than expected. But he took it anyways, for duty and honor. So in this respect he did exactly the same thing as his father - turned his back to the bull while performing for his people. And like a generation earlier, the bull turned out to be closer than expected.
- mercutio2 5y ago
  In case this is serious: the bull is because Paul’s grandfather (Leto’s father) was killed by a bull, while bullfighting. Harkonnen could conceivably have the etymology you’re describing, but the allusion with the statue is much more direct.
  - sajuuk 5y ago
    I agree with you there. My comment was aimed at the subtext of the whole conversation regarding bullfighting. If i recall correctly that dialog is not in the books and the only reason to bring it up in the movie is to foreshadow the plot.
isuckatcoding 5y ago
“Jihad” doesn’t necessarily mean “holy war”. The better translation is “struggle” (which can be external like a physical fight OR internal against oneself and their desires)
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
I might be in a minority, but I came to a conclusion, that Lynch's "Dune" (1984) is a superior movie. Of course, the extended version with all deleted scenes put back in. Sure, this movie has great visuals, great actors, great cinematography, but _that_ movie too had great actors, imaginative distinct sets, and great memorable music. The biggest flaw is short runtime - first half of the book fits 85% of runtime, and then things are quickly rushed to a conclusion (note that the audiences in 1984 weren't taught to see movies in 2 or more parts). I feel that many book scenes were done better by Lynch (Paul's awakening, Yueh, Leto's death, Gom Jabbar test), while many Villeneuve scenes must be utterly confusing to viewers who didn't read the books (Shadut Mapes scene, which is quite weird without Jessica's inner monologue, and her lucky 'maker' pick). In Villeneuve's Dune, the plot is very unclear, the traitor plot is absent, no meaning is given to why nobody suspected Yueh to be a traitor. His mentats are useless furniture. Thufir Hawat is given three scenes: in the first, he counts the travel costs, in the second, gives assessment of production capabilities, and in the third offers his resignation, which is declined. Who is he, an accountant? COO?! Peter DeVries is reduced to a sad freak who stands near the baron and then dies. If you look past the visual effects, the only three big improvements in the new movie are Momoa's Idaho, which was GREAT, Batista's Rabban, and all fight scenes. Idaho's role is wasted in Lynch's Dune, Rabban was so-so, and battle sequences were meh. If only Lynch had steered away from those sonic weapon modules and had 6 hours runtime, we'd have an extremely good and vivid movie. Oh, and sound design in new movie is good, Harkonnen / Sardaukar singing / battle language are cool and weird. All things considered, Dune (1984) was a flashy, vivid, and somewhat messy movie full of life, while Dune (2021) is sterile and almost devoid of emotions.
- matthewtoast 5y ago
  If we're leaving out the sonic weapons from this hypothetical 6-hour Lynch's Dune, would we keep or throw out the heart plugs?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    Of course, keep! They were sick as hell.
nirav72 5y ago
The Author of the substack was curious about the voice at start of the movie. That was the voice of a Sardaukar.
lolwatlolwat 5y ago
I forgot there was a time when people used the word "cucked" unironically until I read this. Why is this Tumblr post on HN?
objektif 5y ago
This movie had probably the best CGI I have seen in a movie. It felt boring at times but overall it was pretty good. I wish I saw it in a theatre.
jablongo 5y ago
I think it is so essential that people see the movie in a proper theater with surround sound rather than on a computer screen via HBO max. The soundtrack (which is some of Hans Zimmer's most ambitious work) and visuals won't be appreciated otherwise. All things considered, I thought this movie was a great effort - it is really encouraging to see $165M spent on actual art rather than boring regurgitations from marvel.
isk517 5y ago
>The book suggests that the Dune men have some contact (even friendship) with Fremen, but they don’t seem to be Fremen themselves, which presents an intriguing possibility. An alliance between the extractive workers and the indigenous population on Arrakis seems like it would be an incredibly powerful coalition, one that could strategically control the entirety of imperial spice production. Tell me you no nothing about the realities of oilfield work without directly saying you know nothing of the realities of oilfield work. But seriously, the author of the article had answered there own question in a blurb above when he talks about how the Fremen want to terraform the planet which will result in the death of the spice trade. The Dune men are basically sci-fi rig workers, they are there to extract spice and make money, they don't hate the locals but they certainly won't put the locals needs above there own. One only need to look at the relationship between rig workers and First Nations peoples in Northern Alberta/BC to see how any attempt at a alliance would work out.
kybernetikos 5y ago
> These two are presumably Harkonnen slave girls. I think they're face dancers contracted to help heal the Baron. I think it's a nice way of introducing the face dancers into the story visually. I really liked the film despite it's length and Villeneuvery. There were quite a few things that bothered me though, which I'm surprised were not discussed in the blog. (My memory of the book is now very old, so I could just be wrong on some of these). 1. The combat was all wrong. I saw las guns being used in various places, which would have been suicide with everyone running around with personal shields. The fact that the knife needs to travel slowly through the shield seemed as far as I could tell to only occur when it made for a good visual and most of the time was ignored. Sure, it would have been hard to make visually interesting fight scenes given the constraints, but solving problems like that is what being a genius director is all about. 2. Not showing Paul cry over the killing felt like a real Hollywood move - the action hero does lots of killing without it bothering him, and we don't want to get too depressed at this point in the film. But actually Paul is a real person, and a good person, and good real people generally don't like killing even when necessary, and this is his first kill, and the shedding of water for his victim is one of the things that gets the Fremen to start to believe that he is someone different to what they're used to. 3. I was irritated early on by people unsheathing and resheathing crysknifes without them tasting blood, (e.g. in the gift to Jessica scene), but then they do cut themselves in the later scene, so maybe there's some sort of explanation? 4. The blog post picked up that Feyd-Rautha is a key character to understanding the Bene Gesserit, so it was weird that he wasn't introduced. 5. Dune just didn't feel that hot. The planet from Pitch Black felt way hotter. They keep saying that Dune will kill you and then just seem to wander around in full dress not seeming all that bothered. 6. The timeline feels wrong. The film makes it feel as if the invasion is on like Day 2. This would make no sense. 6. Extremely cringe final line 'this is only the beginning', weird obsession with saying 'desert power'.

247 points by sebg 5y ago

Like where it was going; left after the third random, unrelated political comment.

I have read the book so the movie was nice for me. I think what this movie would have benefited from is a prequel. Setup the background and then come to the present movie.

notum 5y ago

This is, by far, more entertaining than the new movie itself. Excellent read!

goldcd 5y ago
I very much enjoyed the new movie - and having watched it, think this so far looks like an excellent companion to it.
drugones 5y ago
Agree,the movie is ok and well done within Villeneuve high standards, but as expected a 2 parts movie is not enough to describe the depths of the Dune book. Maybe a trilogy or limited series would give more breath to describe the complex world and the size of the events; hopefully an extended version will bring some life into it.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Have you watched the SciFi (before it was SyFy) channel Dune and Children of Dune miniseries? Probably about 12 hours long, I enjoyed it.
  - gmueckl 5y ago
    The Dune miniseries is about 4,5 hours long. If the second Dune movie will have a similar length to the first one, the pair is going to be more than 5 hours long in total. So the movies wouldn't have to be more compressed. That surprised me a little.
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      Me too actually when I saw the runtime. I guess when you take out the commercials it adds up!
  - the_af 5y ago
    Unfortunately the SyFy adaptation reeked of cheapness to me. Plot-wise better than Lynch's movie, but aesthetically terrible, and with some pretty bad acting too.
    - doodpants 5y ago
      Eh, yes and no. A lot of the outdoor scenes and effects look pretty poor, presumably due to TV-level funding, but the interior set design and costume design are excellent IMHO. Also, the only bad actor was the one playing Paul; I thought everyone else was fine.
moffkalast 5y ago
> An essential fact of the Dune universe — but one that goes unmentioned in the movie — is that there are no computers. Around 10,000 years before the events of Dune, a mass galactic revolt — the Butlerian Jihad — against “thinking machines” ended in a new commandment, adopted by the universe’s many religious sects: “Man may not be replaced.” That part is very interesting, I wonder why it wasn't ever mentioned. It explains SO MANY things.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  As far as I recall, it was never explained in the book either. At some point it clicked, but I don't think it was in the first book. Maybe it was explained in the glossary that people mention here, but my books didn't have one.

_hao 5y ago

If you haven't watched the film yet, make yourself a favour and watch it in IMAX if possible.

skellera 5y ago
I thought it would be fine to watch on HBO Max but I’m glad I didn’t. The sound adds to the scale of the movie in a way that I don’t think is possible at home without a serious system. Saw it in Dolby Cinema which, I think, is an IMAX competitor.
- therealdrag0 5y ago
  Dolby Cinema uses similar tech to IMAX Laser (Dolby is technically superior but arguably not at a level humans would notice in practice), both of which are superior to non-laser IMAX or any other theater type. The main difference is IMAX has a taller aspect ratio, which is probably worth it for movies shot in that format.
Tenoke 5y ago
It was pretty good in IMAX given the grand score and cinematography but it was actually the movie experience that convinced me on average I get better experience at home. Cutting off the few % of worst experiences + extra freedom by watching at home is well worth sacrificing a smallish (for me) comparatively improvement from watching at the cinema.
baq 5y ago
this is the most critical thing to remember about this movie and cannot be repeated enough. unless you have a top 1% home theater setup, you should see this in IMAX. i'm seeing a lot of bad reviews from people who obviously watched it at home on a mediocre TV set in a living room. this movie deserves better.
- abenga 5y ago
  Even if you have a top 1% home theater set up (and I do), the HBO Max release uses the cinematic aspect ratio (2.40:1?) with giant letterboxes top and bottom throughout, which cuts out a giant proportion out of the scenes filmed on IMAX cameras. I watched both a day apart, and the home video release is barely the same film (I exaggerate, but it's almost true).

skellera 5y ago

I was telling my partner that I felt the movie was meant for people who read the book. She thought it was boring. It’s missing a lot of smaller context and seems dull without it. But if you’ve read the book(s), it’s actually a pretty good visual of the series. It would take too long and be dull to everyone if we sat through explanations of everything. This is a great supplement to anyone who didn’t read the book but saw the movie. That said, the book would probably be even better for that.

mzaccari 5y ago
I had tried to get into Dune many years ago, but found it hard to keep track of all that was going on. I wish I had pushed through, because I'm now enthralled by the Dune universe. I can say that the movie helped lay a foundation for me that has made the book far more enjoyable - to the point where I'm almost finished with the audiobook after only starting it last week!
- globular-toast 5y ago
  One thing that helped me with Dune is using the glossary at the back of the book. It's a bit odd and some might say due to bad writing, but he will just start using a word without ever letting you know what it means. The only way to know is from the glossary. Also, don't be afraid to consult a dictionary in some cases. I remember the word "qanat" appears a lot in some of the later books and I just ploughed through without even know what it was. Just look things up and you'll get more out of it.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > some might say due to bad writing Anybody can come up with a new language that happily condenses the concepts you need to have in your new world, but forcing the reader to read an encyclopedia to decipher it is just lazy. You are meant to weave the explanations in your narrative, so the reader picks them up seamlessly. It's a bit like building a UI that is unusable without reading a boring manual.

lqet 5y ago

I wish there was something similar for Jodorowsky's unrealized Dune project (or even an online version of the storyboard). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW-Js7JcF1I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW-Js7JcF1I

FelipeCortez 5y ago
Here’s the online version of the storyboards! https://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowskys-dune-uncovered/1 https://www.duneinfo.com/unseen/jodorowskys-dune-uncovered/1
- lqet 5y ago
  Thank you!

mensetmanusman 5y ago

Dune is so deep I kind of wish they had went the Mandalorian route. Take it slow, shoot for 100 hours of high quality story telling, give people time to enjoy the characters.

jstx1 5y ago
Do you think anything was rushed in the movie? I don't think there is 100 hours of story to tell or maybe you're talking about the whole series not just the first book? (and even then it's a lot)
- wernercd 5y ago
  I think it'd be a good trilogy... or small series. Dozen hours... not 2. not 100.
- croes 5y ago
  Just remember they made 3 movies from The Hobbit
  - jstx1 5y ago
    That's kind of my point - when you stretch the source material too thin you end up with a crappy movie.
  - globular-toast 5y ago
    Yeah and there wasn't 9 hours worth of story to tell hence all the completely pointless fluff and endless CGI. Lord of the Rings (the theatrical versions) is still the gold standard for a difficult, large-scale fantasy adaptation as far as I'm concerned.
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    The only way I ever want to watch that one again is a fan edit I heard about that cuts off the excess cruft. Lord of the Rings was a dedicated labor of love and is IMO still the (set of) films ever made. The Hobbit was a cynical attempt to try and cash in on LotR's success and mindshare, but it was doomed to fail from the start for not having the same team and amount of creative control behind it. In hindsight, I wish Peter Jackson was allowed to make The Hobbit first, then the LotR trilogy as we know it. The Hobbit could have been a film that never needed the huge budget it got in the end.

VortexDream 5y ago

> OK: But what does this have to do with the glowglobes? The thing about writing a sci-fi book where your big shtick is that There Are No Computers is that you can no longer use “Very Advanced Computers” as your hand-waving explanation for how anything works. So Herbert, one of the great sci-fi writers, came up with a new hand-waving explanation: “The Holtzman Field Generator.” The explanation for any cool non-human tech in the Dune universe is: Holtzman Fields. How do spaceships fly? Holtzman Fields! How do shields work? Holtzman Fields! How do glowglobes float? Say it with me now: “the secondary (low-drain) phase of a Holtman Field Generator.” This is hilarious. I think I'm going to enjoy reading the whole thing.

nervousvarun 5y ago
Yeah with Dune you sortof just have to ignore the tech. It never makes much sense. Later on the books get heavy into bio-engineering. Some really strange stuff in the books w/ clones (and multiples/generations of the same clones) etc. The film sorta hinted at it a bit with the spider creature thing (which is not in the original book) but...one of the distinct things about the Dune universe is anything "alien" is really just weird Human bio-engineering.
- dragonshed 5y ago
  I felt the opposite when I read the books. I thought it was rather clever that Frank Herbert invented a physical force [1] which accounts for much of the interesting tech that isn't possible or feasible in reality. I just wish there was more detail. [1] https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Holtzman_Effect https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Holtzman_Effect
teachrdan 5y ago
This makes one of my favorite Onion articles a lot more pointed: "Sci-Fi Writer Attributes Everything Mysterious To 'Quantum Flux'" https://www.theonion.com/sci-fi-writer-attributes-everything-mysterious-to-quant-1819570928 https://www.theonion.com/sci-fi-writer-attributes-everything...

jstx1 5y ago

Dune was the only book for which I had trouble keeping track of what's going on as I'm reading. It's like the writing didn't invoke any mental images, some of the characters were interchangeable in my head and I had to constantly reread paragraphs to figure out what's happening. The movie was an okay adaption but it's not a great experience to leave the cinema halfway through a movie and maybe see the second half in a couple of years.

bodge5000 5y ago
Whilst Dune brought a lot of fantastic concepts to sci-fi, I also sometimes feel like it brought one of the worst ideas to the genre as well; make up a load of random words so everything feels more alien. Its all made worse by the fact that, in an effort to rid the book of stilted exposition, the meanings of the words are explained once or twice in passing mentions, and seem to be replacements for real words fairly arbitrarily (you try to remember one word only to find its never mentioned again, another it turns out is vital to the plot). Though I guess that is to be expected of anything which has has such a vast influence on a genre, no book is perfect.
- dualboot 5y ago
  I agree. When this method is overused it can be difficult to grok the material.
  - Scarblac 5y ago
    I smurfed what you smurfed there.
- the_af 5y ago
  Most words in Dune aren't random though. They are alternative spellings of Arabic words (in some cases, the real world spelling), some French, etc.
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    From a bit of research this does appear to be true, at least partially, although the meanings are also a bit different. Either way, the affect was the same, both in terms of how it influenced others and how it felt to read. Though it does make me wonder how it treats the arabic translations. The obvious answer would be to keep the words the same, but if thats the case then the use of different languages would seem a bit arbitrary. Maybe English words are used in the Arabic translations (though I doubt it)

dgan 5y ago

I tried the book (not a native English speaker) and couldn't go further than first 2 pages. It's just filled with random words with no explanations (yet?) On the other side of spectrum I remember reading reading Zelazny Chronicles of Amber, as a kid (translated to my language) and absolutely loved it

guscost 5y ago
You probably want to start with the glossary and historical notes at the back. Otherwise, yeah, the first time through will not make much sense.
mmcdermott 5y ago
I was discussing this recently and I compared it to the Lord of the Rings. Both authors are writing novels in complex constructed worlds. Where they strongly differ is how they handle this. Tolkien mixes in a lot of explanation. The history of the Ring is told twice, once in Hobbiton and once in Rivendell and both times we receive the background information as explained to an audience surrogate character (Frodo). Herbert goes the opposite way. He simply starts using terminology and referencing entities and histories as though you already know them. You pick it up by osmosis (and newer editions of the book, like the one I read, have a large glossary in the back to simplify matters), but never really get a thorough explanation of the world we are in. I think this is one of the reasons that the Dune Encyclopedia was so popular early on. It's telling that Tolkien never really worked on the Middle Earth guidebooks, but Herbert did. The Chronicles of Amber flat-out rocked.
criddell 5y ago
I've tried to read the book a few times but have never succeeded. Last weekend I watched the movie at home and absolutely loved it. I only wish part two was available. For me, this movie is one of the few book-based movies that is significantly better than the book.
the_af 5y ago
Note most of the "alien" words in Dune are not random, but alternative spellings of words from Arabic, French, etc.

bodge5000 5y ago

I haven't seen the movie yet (and to be honest probably wont for some time) but this gives me the same apprehension I've had for it for the past year or so. Half of the shots look perfect, exactly as I want from Dune. The other half look like quite boring, modern big budget sci-fi movie. The trailer had the same effect, some of the costume design was fantastic, but the ships looked a bit dull and the cinematic orchestral score is a pretty big red flag to me. Not that it sounds bad, it just doesn't sound all that memorable or interesting. A little bit like the "default" horror movie trailer music you here, its not nessecarily bad or unfitting, it just tells you a lot about how much the movie is pushing the boundaries of the genre. But, I haven't seen it, so I don't know.

wrfitch 5y ago
The soundtrack isn't all orchestral - there's a good amount of diversity in its instruments that are used to serve the story well. I really enjoyed it, apart from the standard-issue Zimmer BWAH accompanying every story beat.
- TremendousJudge 5y ago
  I thought that the soundtrack was the most forgettable part of the movie. It's like they reused half the music from Dunkirk. There's no theme to the film that's stuck in your head after you leave the theater, nothing else special about it. It feels like filler

api 5y ago

I still like the David Lynch Dune. I know a lot of people hate it and I agree that it has a lot of problems, but the batshit weirdness of it seemed to jive with the feel of the novel. The Guild navigator alone is a masterpiece. The fact that it looks simultaneously uncanny and silly actually gave it a certain weird realism. If humans really did mutate like that the result would not obey any Hollywood rule of badassery and could well look silly. A platypus and an aardvark are silly looking but are great examples of adaptation to a specialized niche. I imagine flying a transdimensional space drive while hotboxing psychedelic nootropics would be a weird niche too. I just can’t get over the hotboxing shaman piloted flying bong spaceship as a concept. The Mentat mantra from the Lynch Dune is also great and I don’t think it appears in the book. I have my own version: “It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of coffee that thoughts acquire speed. The teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning.”

bena 5y ago
Frank Herbert liked Lynch's Dune. So there's that. I'm also in the camp of having liked it. Maybe because I saw it young, but I'll still watch it today. There's a ton of memorable scenes and quotable lines.

pgt 5y ago

Frank Herbert was a mycologist. It is not widely known that the blue eyes of the Fremen in Dune are an homage to the cerulean blue of Psilocybe mushrooms. In Chapter 9 of Mycelium Running, Paul Stamets reveals: “Frank went on to tell me that much of the premise of Dune—the magic spice (spores) that allowed the bending of space (tripping), the giant sand worms (maggots digesting mushrooms), the eyes of the Fremen (the cerulean blue of Psilocybe mushrooms), the mysticism of the female spiritual warriors, the Bene Gesserits (influenced by the tales of Maria Sabina and the sacred mushroom cults of Mexico)—came from his perception of the fungal life cycle, and his imagination was stimulated through his experiences with the use of magic mushrooms.” — https://www.bartkasperolaw.com/dunes-magic-mushroom-origin-story/ https://www.bartkasperolaw.com/dunes-magic-mushroom-origin-s...

hoseja 5y ago
But they are beige...?
- pgt 5y ago
  They turn blue when cut: https://shroombros.co/the-mystery-solved-why-magic-mushrooms-turn-blue/ https://shroombros.co/the-mystery-solved-why-magic-mushrooms...
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    Or when they are bruised.
Garvey 5y ago
Having heard the name for only the second time, I can only assume the Stamets of Star Trek Discovery is so called as a foreshadowing of his involvement with the mycelial network
- banana_giraffe 5y ago
  Yep, Aaron Harberts, a producer of Discovery, commented that he named Staments after the real life mycologist.

zfxfr 5y ago

I love Dune. I read all the books. I love it so much that I read some of the books in French (my native language) and also in English ! I did not start by reading the first book of the serie. Instead i begun reading the "Emperor God of Dune" it's probably my favorite. If i had started by the first book i don't whether i would have read all the others. So I did not expect much of this movie. I enjoyed watching it (and giving some details to my wife) but I hope the rest of the story will be adapted in movie. I think the movie is a good introduction to the rest of the story (kind of like the book)

hasmolo 5y ago
God Emperor of Dune is great!
Scarblac 5y ago
Wow, how did you end up starting with that? I agree that it is great, but I can also imagine others having the complete opposite opinion. It's certainly a direction you don't expect the series to take, just from the first one or two :-)

the_af 5y ago

I wonder why people find the book Dune difficult? It's very short and the prose is straightforward. Most "alien" words are real-world words with alternative spellings. There is a glossary, and in any case Lord of the Rings language (English and made up) is way more difficult. The plot of A Game of Thrones is likewise harder to follow than Dune's, with more factions, more intrigue, and mysteries that are still unfolding many books within the series. There is political intrigue in Dune ("plots within plots within plots") but it's often explained out loud or with inner monologue by the main characters. The Baron Harkonnen explains very early his plot; a deeper conspiracy is soon explained by other characters. The religion and manipulation of the Bene Gesserit is explained very clearly by Jessica. There are almost no "long" mysteries that are not explained close to their introduction. The book also wears its real-world influences on its sleeves. So the plot is not particularly convoluted, the prose is straightforward and the made up words have real equivalents (mostly). So why do people find it difficult?

dosethree 5y ago
Theres a lot going on in Dune, not all of it is explained up front. Its the kind of book where earlier parts make more sense later because theres not a crazy amount of exposition explaining things and how the world works, and theres a lot to digest. The movie ends up being kind of worse in this regard for people new to Dune
AlwaysRock 5y ago
For me its just that you have to get through a lot of world/universe building before anything really happens. I struggle with books that want me to learn about insert alien history before telling me why i need to care about this specific alien race. But I'm going to read the book now. Normally having a visual to put to the words helps me get through that stuff.
- the_af 5y ago
  > you have to get through a lot of world/universe building before anything really happens I'm re-reading the novel right now and there really isn't that much world-building. It's a slow burn (in a very short novel), but akin to the set up to the drama in, say, Hamlet; characters making their moves and preparing their traps, and it bears fruit in the second half. The world building is way less complex than Lord of the Ring or A Game of Thrones. I know people also complain about those, but they are also wildly successful novels so they must be doing something right. Way less obscure than Dune, in any case.

impostervt 5y ago

Loved this line: "Being a Bene Gesserit is like being what people on Instagram who tell you to drink your own urine think they are."

simonh 5y ago

Over my long film watching life I've learned that there can actually be a lot of value in watching very well made movies in genre's I don't like. I learn more about cinema, the different ways it's made and what works and what doesn't. It's the same with music, very well made and especially innovative music in any genre can be interesting to listen to. In fact sometimes the fact the genre doesn't appeal to me I think allows that to fall away, to an extent, so I can see the practice of the craft more clearly. This might be true of books too, but the time investment in reading books in genres that don't appeal to me is too much. My wife didn't like the Dune movie, but my teenage daughters loved it. None of them have read the book, or had any explanation of it before walking into the theatre. Honestly I think it's just that people have different tastes. Any change to make the film more digestible to people likely to bounce off it would also probably weaken it for those predisposed to enjoy it. Dune is an exceptionally skilled and personal implementation of very particular creative vision. That is true of both the book and this film. The result is not for everyone for sure, not all art is, but the film and the book are both incredible works of art.

eddiezane 5y ago

I've always thought that the Missionaria Protectiva was coolest concept in Dune. The "religious engineering". The idea that over thousands of years the Bene Gesserit have seeded fake prophecy and religion throughout the universe to "primitive worlds". A Bene Gesserit visiting one of these worlds is trained to fulfill these prophecies and basically weaponize the locals. I don't know why it blows my mind but it does. Has modern scifi used this idea anywhere?

JohnKacz 5y ago
Great video talking about just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjC5JLNFczY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjC5JLNFczY
disantlor 5y ago
same; this is the part I always end up trying to explain to people when talking up Dune. The monolith in 2001 is kind of a similar idea.
tantalor 5y ago
Its ironic because 1, the BG have their own phrophesy (Kwisatz Haderach) they actually believe and 2, on Dune the "fake phrophesy" comes true.
jakamau 5y ago
Not quite the same, but for a book that shows the power of weaponized empathy, Richard Morgan's "Altered Carbon" (the book version specifically) has the envoys as empathic super-soldiers. When you can easily move a consciousness into different bodies, the most dangerous opponents are those that can empathize with their enemy to such a degree that they can pass as one of them seamlessly and unconsciously predict their motives and reactions.
andreilys 5y ago
I know Foundation series also toys with this concept, where “religion” is used as a way to neutralize enemy worlds and rebuild the empire
bigwavedave 5y ago

sodality2 5y ago

I love annotating shows and movies, several of my friends looked at me so strangely when I was taking notes while watching NGE but sometimes the plot is so complicated it necessitates it to fully understand and appreciate it. The first watch is always regular though, if I come out confused I'll rewatch it.

guscost 5y ago

Great movie. This bit sums up my feelings: > Basically any quibbles or hesitations are erased by images like the above, of the Bene Gesserit departing that spaceship, and about which I can only say: That’s fucking sick as hell. This shit rules.

sajuuk 5y ago

In case the creator of the site is reading: The bullfighting statue is most likely an analogy regarding the conflict with the harkonnen. The harkonnen name stems apparently from Härkönen which derives from the finnish name for ox. In the movie Leto says that his father already practiced bullfighting, which could be a hint towards the ongoing conflict between the houses.

radu_floricica 5y ago
It was pretty obvious for everybody that the "promotion" to Arrakis was a trap, including to Leto. They're never surprised the attack is coming, just that it's sooner and larger than expected. But he took it anyways, for duty and honor. So in this respect he did exactly the same thing as his father - turned his back to the bull while performing for his people. And like a generation earlier, the bull turned out to be closer than expected.
mercutio2 5y ago
In case this is serious: the bull is because Paul’s grandfather (Leto’s father) was killed by a bull, while bullfighting. Harkonnen could conceivably have the etymology you’re describing, but the allusion with the statue is much more direct.
- sajuuk 5y ago
  I agree with you there. My comment was aimed at the subtext of the whole conversation regarding bullfighting. If i recall correctly that dialog is not in the books and the only reason to bring it up in the movie is to foreshadow the plot.

isuckatcoding 5y ago

“Jihad” doesn’t necessarily mean “holy war”. The better translation is “struggle” (which can be external like a physical fight OR internal against oneself and their desires)

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

I might be in a minority, but I came to a conclusion, that Lynch's "Dune" (1984) is a superior movie. Of course, the extended version with all deleted scenes put back in. Sure, this movie has great visuals, great actors, great cinematography, but _that_ movie too had great actors, imaginative distinct sets, and great memorable music. The biggest flaw is short runtime - first half of the book fits 85% of runtime, and then things are quickly rushed to a conclusion (note that the audiences in 1984 weren't taught to see movies in 2 or more parts). I feel that many book scenes were done better by Lynch (Paul's awakening, Yueh, Leto's death, Gom Jabbar test), while many Villeneuve scenes must be utterly confusing to viewers who didn't read the books (Shadut Mapes scene, which is quite weird without Jessica's inner monologue, and her lucky 'maker' pick). In Villeneuve's Dune, the plot is very unclear, the traitor plot is absent, no meaning is given to why nobody suspected Yueh to be a traitor. His mentats are useless furniture. Thufir Hawat is given three scenes: in the first, he counts the travel costs, in the second, gives assessment of production capabilities, and in the third offers his resignation, which is declined. Who is he, an accountant? COO?! Peter DeVries is reduced to a sad freak who stands near the baron and then dies. If you look past the visual effects, the only three big improvements in the new movie are Momoa's Idaho, which was GREAT, Batista's Rabban, and all fight scenes. Idaho's role is wasted in Lynch's Dune, Rabban was so-so, and battle sequences were meh. If only Lynch had steered away from those sonic weapon modules and had 6 hours runtime, we'd have an extremely good and vivid movie. Oh, and sound design in new movie is good, Harkonnen / Sardaukar singing / battle language are cool and weird. All things considered, Dune (1984) was a flashy, vivid, and somewhat messy movie full of life, while Dune (2021) is sterile and almost devoid of emotions.

matthewtoast 5y ago
If we're leaving out the sonic weapons from this hypothetical 6-hour Lynch's Dune, would we keep or throw out the heart plugs?
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
  Of course, keep! They were sick as hell.

nirav72 5y ago

The Author of the substack was curious about the voice at start of the movie. That was the voice of a Sardaukar.

lolwatlolwat 5y ago

I forgot there was a time when people used the word "cucked" unironically until I read this. Why is this Tumblr post on HN?

objektif 5y ago

This movie had probably the best CGI I have seen in a movie. It felt boring at times but overall it was pretty good. I wish I saw it in a theatre.

jablongo 5y ago

I think it is so essential that people see the movie in a proper theater with surround sound rather than on a computer screen via HBO max. The soundtrack (which is some of Hans Zimmer's most ambitious work) and visuals won't be appreciated otherwise. All things considered, I thought this movie was a great effort - it is really encouraging to see $165M spent on actual art rather than boring regurgitations from marvel.

isk517 5y ago

>The book suggests that the Dune men have some contact (even friendship) with Fremen, but they don’t seem to be Fremen themselves, which presents an intriguing possibility. An alliance between the extractive workers and the indigenous population on Arrakis seems like it would be an incredibly powerful coalition, one that could strategically control the entirety of imperial spice production. Tell me you no nothing about the realities of oilfield work without directly saying you know nothing of the realities of oilfield work. But seriously, the author of the article had answered there own question in a blurb above when he talks about how the Fremen want to terraform the planet which will result in the death of the spice trade. The Dune men are basically sci-fi rig workers, they are there to extract spice and make money, they don't hate the locals but they certainly won't put the locals needs above there own. One only need to look at the relationship between rig workers and First Nations peoples in Northern Alberta/BC to see how any attempt at a alliance would work out.

kybernetikos 5y ago

> These two are presumably Harkonnen slave girls. I think they're face dancers contracted to help heal the Baron. I think it's a nice way of introducing the face dancers into the story visually. I really liked the film despite it's length and Villeneuvery. There were quite a few things that bothered me though, which I'm surprised were not discussed in the blog. (My memory of the book is now very old, so I could just be wrong on some of these). 1. The combat was all wrong. I saw las guns being used in various places, which would have been suicide with everyone running around with personal shields. The fact that the knife needs to travel slowly through the shield seemed as far as I could tell to only occur when it made for a good visual and most of the time was ignored. Sure, it would have been hard to make visually interesting fight scenes given the constraints, but solving problems like that is what being a genius director is all about. 2. Not showing Paul cry over the killing felt like a real Hollywood move - the action hero does lots of killing without it bothering him, and we don't want to get too depressed at this point in the film. But actually Paul is a real person, and a good person, and good real people generally don't like killing even when necessary, and this is his first kill, and the shedding of water for his victim is one of the things that gets the Fremen to start to believe that he is someone different to what they're used to. 3. I was irritated early on by people unsheathing and resheathing crysknifes without them tasting blood, (e.g. in the gift to Jessica scene), but then they do cut themselves in the later scene, so maybe there's some sort of explanation? 4. The blog post picked up that Feyd-Rautha is a key character to understanding the Bene Gesserit, so it was weird that he wasn't introduced. 5. Dune just didn't feel that hot. The planet from Pitch Black felt way hotter. They keep saying that Dune will kill you and then just seem to wander around in full dress not seeming all that bothered. 6. The timeline feels wrong. The film makes it feel as if the invasion is on like Day 2. This would make no sense. 6. Extremely cringe final line 'this is only the beginning', weird obsession with saying 'desert power'.