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How spies are caught (2001)
- Yehoshaphat 5y agoWhy is the NOAA hosting this site? Also, the last update was in 2001.
- __jerbl 5y agoyeah, what's with that...
- nielsbot 5y agoLooks like a department (Western Region Security Office ) responsible for security? The parent URL https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/ https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/ Or their about page: https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/aboutwrso.htm https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/aboutwrso.htm Seems it's part of the Department of Commerce? But they list one of their their clients as NOAA.
- HenryKissinger 5y agoTreason 101: https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/intro-3.htm#Treason%20101 https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/intro-3.htm#Tre... > Your short course in Treason is a series of articles on how spies are caught, the prevalence of espionage, and why people spy https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/mission.htm https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/mission.htm > Protects the Department of Commerce and the U.S. Government by collaboration with key leaders, decision-makers, and stakeholders to effectively mitigate security risks.
- sillysaurusx 5y agoWow, I found https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/insider.htm#The%20Insider https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/insider.htm#The... much more satisfying than the submitted link. Thanks for posting this!
- cbfrench 5y ago>Why is the NOAA hosting this site? Because the NOAA has a Division of Security under the Dept. of Commerce umbrella: https://www.commerce.gov/osy/field-offices/national-oceanic-and-atmospheric-administration https://www.commerce.gov/osy/field-offices/national-oceanic-... The Western Regional Security Office is housed at the NOAA Western Regional Center. On some level, NOAA is a national security asset, I would think, so it makes sense. Also, they appear to provide security services for other, smaller agencies within the DOC. It’s sort of like when you find out that both Amtrak and the NIH have tactical response teams: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-710.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-710.pdf (And that’s not even to mention the NOAA uniformed service, which was always a nerdy dream of mine to join… https://www.omao.noaa.gov/learn/noaa-commissioned-officer-corps https://www.omao.noaa.gov/learn/noaa-commissioned-officer-co... )
- cperciva 5y agothey appear to provide security services for other, smaller agencies within the DOC. You might even call them an umbrella agency.
- coolso 5y ago> Also, the last update was in 2001. As a result, I found myself reading the entire page, all the way through to the end.
- sillysaurusx 5y agoHmm. This assumes we know all the spies. But it could be true that spying has been wildly successful, and that most spies were never caught. In a scenario like that, a breakdown of percentages would sound a lot less convincing. I suppose most spies are caught, but I've always wondered whether Feynman was a spy. Not based on anything in particular; it's just tantalizing to think that random famous people are actually traitors. We'd never know unless they were caught, after all.
- ncmncm 5y agoMost people tried for espionage in the US in the last two decades were not spies at all. The people who should have been tried and executed, for participating in torture, and for destroying evidence that could have led to convictions for torture, are still in charge. Probably the overwhelming majority of actual spies in the US are not caught, because hardly anybody is even looking. And, the stuff they spy out is in the end mostly inconsequential, except insofar as it causes trouble for other spies.
- baybal2 5y agoI think, on Russian side they never really had anything like functioning counterintelligence screening. They instead had complete reliance on Hanses, or Ames like "super-spy" characters, with whom they went to any length to recruit as became known after USSR dissolved.
- hguant 5y agoLiterally everything you've said is is just patently false, and betrays a such severe lack of any sort of knowledge or understanding about the subject matter that one can only assume bad faith, or else that you're an object lesson in the failure of the US education system.
- ncmncm 5y agoI await your citations of American spooks fired, indicted, convicted, and executed for torture and other war crimes.
- bbunix 5y agoCirca 2001...
- rand846633 5y agoLooked for the publishing date when I read the line with the signal site. I’m sure it’s harder today to find the communication methods of spies when they can use any website.
- FpUser 5y agoWith every keystroke likely to be monitored? I think it can actually be less difficult to detect spies.
- rand846633 5y agoEvery keystroke on every device of every employee with access to sensitive data? Not sure how that would be implemented, do you think all their phones and private devices have some government Spyware running hidden in the background? Could be, but who knows…
- Lio 5y agoI think the point of the article is that they don't have to catch you in the act and don't have to implement anything special at all. You can be as careful and as smart as you like, it won't help you. Eventually they'll get a whiff of it from someone either close you or a foreign asset. There's statute of limitation, eventually they'll come for you.
- rand846633 5y agoSure, you are right. The article basically says: “don’t do it cause we will catch you for sure” & “only people with character flaw as would consider doing it anyways”. My point was mostly about the mention of catching spies when the approach signal stations.
- 5y ago
- themodelplumber 5y agoFun fact, NOAA (operator of linked website above) has its own federal law enforcement division with guns. Among other things, they enforce the Weather Modification Reporting Act. If you try to modify the weather without permission, there is a chance that you will have to surrender to a gun-wielding federal officer wearing a NOAA patch.
- Faaak 5y agoCurious European here: what happens if you are "stronger"/more numerous than the NOAA officers ? I.e. can they rely on regular police ? Thanks
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y agoThat is when they call on Thor for backup. And then you are screwed. Better cooperate with the NOAA from the beginning.
- saghm 5y agoAnd yet he gets to modify the weather all the time without repercussions! Talk about a double standard.
- themodelplumber 5y agoI believe they are heavy cooperators with other agencies including e.g. state and local agencies. They were only 200 strong last I checked, and that probably includes office staff.
- ARandomerDude 5y agoIndeed. In fact, failure to work with other (local) law enforcement agencies was one of the reasons the FBI had such a bad day in the 1986 Miami shootout. This is taught as a textbook example of what not to do in the military and LEO communities today. They like to portray local vs federal in Hollywood as a trope, but in reality, inter-agency cooperation is (supposed to be) the norm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout
- ransom1538 5y ago"Tip from a friend or spouse." Note. If you are a spy: Don't cheat on your spouse.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- silisili 5y ago> Most people who betray their country are not thinking rationally, or they would not be involved in such a self-destructive activity. They are driven, in large part, by irrational emotional needs to feel important, successful, powerful or to get even or to take risks. These emotional needs are out of control, so the same emotional needs that lead them to betray also cause them to flaunt their sudden affluence or to brag about their involvement in some mysterious activity. Because they are so mixed up psychologically, they make mistakes that get them caught. This makes me rather sad. The punishment for espionage is rather severe. That it's explained as essentially a mental illness and lapse of judgement makes me wish we had a better mental health support system and rehab.
- tehjoker 5y agoThis is propaganda directed at the public and at the other members of the agencies. Often people have good reasons for doing what they do. For example, Chelsea Manning was accused of espionage for revealing war crimes. The US has a long history of starting wars on fictional grounds (it's hard to think of one that wasn't after the Civil War, with a possible exception for WW2) and this can lead people that come to realize they were conned to try to get justice.
- silisili 5y agoThis aligns with my own ideas, though not directly. Even without a lying, quasi evil govt, society is still to blame. Designing and forcing folks to live in a society that so idolizes power and money, while seemingly purposefully alienating people from each other and forcing down wages, what would one expect to happen? In both our examples, the government has failed its people, and they act like it's so egregious that people would do such a thing.
- linschn 5y agoHave you heard of WWII?
- rawTruthHurts 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cbfrench 5y agoMy new life goal is to write an action film in which a rag-tag band of meteorologists takes on an arch-villain who seeks to change the weather to enrich himself and control the world. These meteorologists initially realize something is up because the villain has hijacked the GFS to distract from his plot. The climactic (or climatic?) scene will involve using a Hurricane Hunter to parachute into the villain’s lair to put a stop to the scheme using the full force of the NOAA, which will probably involve weaponized weather balloons. At some point the villain will ask: “How many divisions does the NOAA have?” The tagline: “Justice is in the forecast.”
- EdwardDiego 5y agoClive Cussler's NUMA is just NOAA with additional rule breaking mavericks.
- fogihujy 5y agoWe don't want any more Dirk Pitt movies, though.
- kristianov 5y agoI was skeptical until weaponized weather balloons. Shut up and take my money.
- Shared404 5y agoGet Randall Munroe to co-write, and I promise to see it in theaters at least twice.
- bryanrasmussen 5y agoI think Shane Black should write, then we will get some quality Christmas action scenes, the weather the bad guy is doing the trial run on is obviously going to be snow in Christmas. He has threatened the ice hotel with a heatwave in December - https://www.icehotel.com/ https://www.icehotel.com/
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- crystalmeph 5y agoThe interactive quizzes at https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/quizzes.htm https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/quizzes.htm are a good quick-skim way to learn a little bit more about this world. It will be interesting to see if these pages are still up tomorrow.
- jmtg 5y agoThe true spy stories at https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/intro-2.htm#True%20Spy%20Stories https://www.wrc.noaa.gov/wrso/security_guide/intro-2.htm#Tru... are also a fun read.
- godmode2019 5y agoI had a friend apply to be a spy, they said he applied by the website but the emails went through his gmail. "Thank you for applying for xyz spy agency we will get back to you after we processes your application" I wouldn't be surprised if the USA knew most other governments spys.
- dzonga 5y agothey do. and linked article also mentions the us spies on their allies and reverse is true also. which means spy-game is know your enemy, know your friend and treat them the same way, with suspicion.
- beermonster 5y ago"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." ― Michael Corleone
- smcl 5y agoThat first point is basically - you could do everything right on your end and there’s a good chance that a US agent within the foreign government will out you anyway. This is such an effective sounding deterrent I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s exaggerated, like “yeah maybe you’re smart but we are everywhere” Either way it’d take something extreme to tempt me into this world - like if my country became a fascist dictatorship or something acting against it is at least the morally correct thing to do
- eru 5y agoYou could just vote with your feet (and thus also your tax dollars, unless you are an American).
- smcl 5y agoThat is true, but I think (or hope?) that if in the unlikely event my country was under an oppressive, fascist regime that I would do my best to resist and undermine it in any way possible. Who knows whether that would transpire.
- eru 5y agoThese two approaches are not necessarily incompatible. Though I wonder why you would care so much about 'your' country? Once you save yourself and your family and friends, oppression and misery anywhere of any human seems about equally bad to me.
- smcl 5y agoWell the country I grew up in contains not just my immediate and extended family who I care a lot about, but a pretty wide network of friends, colleagues and acquaintances. But let's leave that aside for a moment and think about whether I actually might want to live there in the future, rather than as a refugee elsewhere. There's more to it than this, but I think this is sufficient argument against "just move lol" This is all going into a hypothetical future I'd rather not spend too much time thinking about. As I said it's fairly unlikely and if I'm honest this is normally the wheelhouse of people who are a bit unhinged so I'm a bit uneasy entertaining this fantasy even though I originally raised it :)