12 ms·

“We have seen some initiatives run into trouble, however, when the necessary rights have not been secured to enable their sustainability,” I love the double-sp

“We have seen some initiatives run into trouble, however, when the necessary rights have not been secured to enable their sustainability,” I love the double-speak that these corrupt publishers use - it really highlights how mafia-esque the whole situation is. "Pay your protection fee, or we won't be able to /protect/ you". Intellectual slavery and copyright is just another tool of opression used to keep the wealthy in their positions of power.

charcircuit 5y ago
Anyone can create IP. It's not something only the wealthy can do.
- pugworthy 5y ago
  Indeed. This is my new strategy at the place I work, where I can't get acceptance of new interesting "a few years out there" ideas for our product line, but I can file for IP for such ideas. I'm actually encouraged to. It's a great outlet for the creative if you've got the organization to help out.
  - desiderantes 5y ago
    There are people out there gifting their IP to companies? What a crazy world.
    - Cerium 5y ago
      Usually it is not quite a gift, where I work you get some bonus, something like $1500 for each patent with your name on it.
      - pugworthy 5y ago
        Not to mention I can't hire lawyers, researchers, illustrators, and all the other things my company does for me. It would cost me so much more, both in dollars and time.
        buildbot 5y ago
        Yep! While yeah I am selling IP for some small bonus, it's way, way easier and a guaranteed return on my investment vs. creating a startup or trying to get someone to license a patent. I've done a few patents now at my current job, and it's literally about 4 hours of investment from me for each one to get the summary written up, talk to the lawyers, and then review their patent draft. Also, the patent lawyers I worked with had so much domain experience (ML) that it was kinda scary.
        mk89 5y ago
        Well it depends a lot on the patent, I guess. Some patents are definitely not worth a startup, so probably it's not a bad idea to get some bonus and be done with it. However it's cool for big companies to show they have thousands of patents.
        pugworthy 5y ago
        It's cool for individual contributors to say they have 30-40 patents too. We all get our thrills different ways.
        mellavora 5y ago
        Yeah, on that 'creating a startup' approach. Tried it, indeed much much harder.
    - pugworthy 5y ago
      Like most of us are going to go start a company, have it succeed, and let alone base it on 1 or 2 good ideas (when we have many more).
- beckman466 5y ago
  > Anyone can create IP. It's not something only the wealthy can do. No. First you need privileged access to humanity’s techno-scientific inheritance. New discoveries and their negative research are increasingly being monopolized through trade secret protection (which, unlike patents, means that some discoveries can be forever monopolized). https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/02/19/dont-fooled-patent-purge-elon-musk-just-another-hypocritical-tech-billionaire/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/02/19/dont-fooled-patent-pur... Yes I agree this isn’t the best source so if you have a good source that explains it better, please share?
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    If I independently discover a trade secret, it stops being a trade secret. And are you telling us we need privilege to write a song?
    - krageon 5y ago
      You need privilege to have a song listened to.
      - charcircuit 5y ago
        Not with the internet. It's as simple as sharing a link.
    - eurasiantiger 5y ago
      There are many instances where a small artist sampling commercial music has been slapped with a life-ending lawsuit, while commercial artists straight up ripping off small artists make chart hits and millions of dollars.
      - charcircuit 5y ago
        That sounds like easy money for the small artist if they sued.
    - beckman466 5y ago
- ramblenode 5y ago
  Anyone can create a billion dollar company or win a Nobel prize while we're at it. All technically true but largely meaningless for lack of nuance and perspective. If you're an independent inventor you'll need to hire a patent attorney for your patent to have a meaningful chance, which will run several grand. The patent office is overwhelmed and as a result tends to reject the first draft of an application so that only the most tenacious filers stick around. So you'll spend several grand more on each of probably 3-5 iterations of the application. $10k is a realistic estimate for attorneys' fees if the process goes well. Then you'll need to monetize it. If you want to sell a product you'll deal with all the other IP holders and their "patent thickets" that intersect with trivial aspects of your product. To sell your product you'll need to license their IP, eroding the value of your own. Finally you'll have to defend your IP from infringement, which is a major expense---much larger than filing. If you threaten a company with infringement they will make it their strategy to grind you down with legal expenses. If it goes to litigation, you should expect to spend at least several hundred grand. So overall I would not say just "anyone" has meaningful access to IP. As with many legal/bureaucratic processes, your mileage will vary with how deep your pockets are. Here is a book written by two economists on how the current IP regime concentrates power and stifles innovation: http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.ht...
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    Why are you focusing on patents? This article is about copyright. Anyone can sell a program, a game, a song, a video, etc.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  Creating IP is useless if you’re not wealthy enough to enforce its exclusivity.
  - charcircuit 5y ago
    You can send DMCA takedowns for free.
    - tinus_hn 5y ago
      And you don’t even need to own the IP to begin with!
      - charcircuit 5y ago
        Sure, but that's perjury and you are taking on risk by doing so.
        tinus_hn 5y ago
        Remind me, how many people have been prosecuted for false DMCA claims?
dukeofdoom 5y ago
[flagged]
- pugworthy 5y ago
  We aren't slaves, we are partners. Nor are we all startup leaders. We have ideas, we don't necessarily have the time, money or even ability to capitalize on them directly as a business. We also have no need to come up with ideas which have direct application right now. We can come up with "here's a good idea (maybe)"... stuff, and it really doesn't matter so much if it doesn't pan out. We still get the bonus, the credit, and the feeling that our idea got recorded and acknowledged. It's making lots of small bets to get ahead, rather than go for broke on one big one.
catcher1 5y ago
You can remove the "esque" from "mafia-esque" for about half of existing "scientific" journals. Please consider studying the way the publication industry now works. Triple profit system, youngsters misled by superiors into unpaid reviewing for inexistent future professional positions, then worse when you start refusing to simply "give" your work, do reviews, preparing somebody else's powerpoint presentations for congresses, etc. We could be longing for a science paper published on preprint servers that publishes the results of this study. You might want to publish it anonymously though. The days of open science are gone.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

charcircuit 5y ago

Anyone can create IP. It's not something only the wealthy can do.

pugworthy 5y ago
Indeed. This is my new strategy at the place I work, where I can't get acceptance of new interesting "a few years out there" ideas for our product line, but I can file for IP for such ideas. I'm actually encouraged to. It's a great outlet for the creative if you've got the organization to help out.
- desiderantes 5y ago
  There are people out there gifting their IP to companies? What a crazy world.
  - Cerium 5y ago
    Usually it is not quite a gift, where I work you get some bonus, something like $1500 for each patent with your name on it.
    - pugworthy 5y ago
      Not to mention I can't hire lawyers, researchers, illustrators, and all the other things my company does for me. It would cost me so much more, both in dollars and time.
      - buildbot 5y ago
        Yep! While yeah I am selling IP for some small bonus, it's way, way easier and a guaranteed return on my investment vs. creating a startup or trying to get someone to license a patent. I've done a few patents now at my current job, and it's literally about 4 hours of investment from me for each one to get the summary written up, talk to the lawyers, and then review their patent draft. Also, the patent lawyers I worked with had so much domain experience (ML) that it was kinda scary.
        mk89 5y ago
        Well it depends a lot on the patent, I guess. Some patents are definitely not worth a startup, so probably it's not a bad idea to get some bonus and be done with it. However it's cool for big companies to show they have thousands of patents.
        pugworthy 5y ago
        It's cool for individual contributors to say they have 30-40 patents too. We all get our thrills different ways.
        mellavora 5y ago
        Yeah, on that 'creating a startup' approach. Tried it, indeed much much harder.
  - pugworthy 5y ago
    Like most of us are going to go start a company, have it succeed, and let alone base it on 1 or 2 good ideas (when we have many more).
beckman466 5y ago
> Anyone can create IP. It's not something only the wealthy can do. No. First you need privileged access to humanity’s techno-scientific inheritance. New discoveries and their negative research are increasingly being monopolized through trade secret protection (which, unlike patents, means that some discoveries can be forever monopolized). https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/02/19/dont-fooled-patent-purge-elon-musk-just-another-hypocritical-tech-billionaire/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2019/02/19/dont-fooled-patent-pur... Yes I agree this isn’t the best source so if you have a good source that explains it better, please share?
- bencollier49 5y ago
  If I independently discover a trade secret, it stops being a trade secret. And are you telling us we need privilege to write a song?
  - krageon 5y ago
    You need privilege to have a song listened to.
    - charcircuit 5y ago
      Not with the internet. It's as simple as sharing a link.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    There are many instances where a small artist sampling commercial music has been slapped with a life-ending lawsuit, while commercial artists straight up ripping off small artists make chart hits and millions of dollars.
    - charcircuit 5y ago
      That sounds like easy money for the small artist if they sued.
  - beckman466 5y ago
ramblenode 5y ago
Anyone can create a billion dollar company or win a Nobel prize while we're at it. All technically true but largely meaningless for lack of nuance and perspective. If you're an independent inventor you'll need to hire a patent attorney for your patent to have a meaningful chance, which will run several grand. The patent office is overwhelmed and as a result tends to reject the first draft of an application so that only the most tenacious filers stick around. So you'll spend several grand more on each of probably 3-5 iterations of the application. $10k is a realistic estimate for attorneys' fees if the process goes well. Then you'll need to monetize it. If you want to sell a product you'll deal with all the other IP holders and their "patent thickets" that intersect with trivial aspects of your product. To sell your product you'll need to license their IP, eroding the value of your own. Finally you'll have to defend your IP from infringement, which is a major expense---much larger than filing. If you threaten a company with infringement they will make it their strategy to grind you down with legal expenses. If it goes to litigation, you should expect to spend at least several hundred grand. So overall I would not say just "anyone" has meaningful access to IP. As with many legal/bureaucratic processes, your mileage will vary with how deep your pockets are. Here is a book written by two economists on how the current IP regime concentrates power and stifles innovation: http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.ht...
- charcircuit 5y ago
  Why are you focusing on patents? This article is about copyright. Anyone can sell a program, a game, a song, a video, etc.
tinus_hn 5y ago
Creating IP is useless if you’re not wealthy enough to enforce its exclusivity.
- charcircuit 5y ago
  You can send DMCA takedowns for free.
  - tinus_hn 5y ago
    And you don’t even need to own the IP to begin with!
    - charcircuit 5y ago
      Sure, but that's perjury and you are taking on risk by doing so.
      - tinus_hn 5y ago
        Remind me, how many people have been prosecuted for false DMCA claims?

dukeofdoom 5y ago

[flagged]

pugworthy 5y ago
We aren't slaves, we are partners. Nor are we all startup leaders. We have ideas, we don't necessarily have the time, money or even ability to capitalize on them directly as a business. We also have no need to come up with ideas which have direct application right now. We can come up with "here's a good idea (maybe)"... stuff, and it really doesn't matter so much if it doesn't pan out. We still get the bonus, the credit, and the feeling that our idea got recorded and acknowledged. It's making lots of small bets to get ahead, rather than go for broke on one big one.

catcher1 5y ago

You can remove the "esque" from "mafia-esque" for about half of existing "scientific" journals. Please consider studying the way the publication industry now works. Triple profit system, youngsters misled by superiors into unpaid reviewing for inexistent future professional positions, then worse when you start refusing to simply "give" your work, do reviews, preparing somebody else's powerpoint presentations for congresses, etc. We could be longing for a science paper published on preprint servers that publishes the results of this study. You might want to publish it anonymously though. The days of open science are gone.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]