10 ms·

Affordable 70 MPH electric motorcycle is already here and no one noticed

63 points by danboarder 5y ago

zelon88 5y ago
This is significant because a traditional ICE powered bike in the same class like the Yamaha TW200 costs about $4,500 brand new. This electric bike seems to have very similar performance characteristics for only about $1,000 more. That truly is competitive with ICE in just about every category. Still, a bike like the TW200 has 30 years of parts and knowledge on the market that the electric bike doesn't. But this is exactly what needs to happen for those parts and knowledge to get built.
- abemiller 5y ago
  Just about every category except for distance. The ICE motor can go closer to 120 highway miles before a refuel, as opposed to 37. That's enough to actually get you to the next gas station, and then once your there you just have to fill up and be on your way. With the electric bike if you can even make it between chargers, you'll have to sit and wait for it to recharge every 40 miles...
  - akira2501 5y ago
    You can also attach fuel cans to a bike, and the extra weight is more than justified by the additional range. The same would not be true of battery packs.
  - zelon88 5y ago
    I agree with you. But so far, most companies seem to prioritize competitive range instead of competitive pricing. I own a TW200 and most of the trails I ride on in MA and NH are under 10 miles long anyway. They claim the ES1 can go 37 miles at highway speed. Anyone with a TW200 will tell you... Small bikes aren't comfy for the highway. It's not fun to hold the throttle wide open and still get passed by cars going 20mph faster than you. It's scary. So people buying the ES1 aren't going to be using it for that. The important part, to me, is the weight. Both the TW200 and the ES1 are 276 lbs. That means it's still small and light enough to reasonably lift into the bed of a pickup truck or support on a receiver mounted rack.
- kube-system 5y ago
  The performance figures posted are for the extended battery model which is $6,980 ... and there are some really good performing bikes in that price range. And for not much more you could get a used Zero FX.
ChuckMcM 5y ago
My neighbor has one of these and it is pretty awesome. I asked about it when it went by me on one of my walks and I realized it had to be electric given its lack of engine noise. He really likes it and uses it to commute around the Bay Area. I'm seriously considering getting one. I used to have a Honda Scooter which had a top end of about 50 which was okay for streets and stuff but if you wanted to use an expressway briefly you were definitely at a disadvantage.
- dhosek 5y ago
  The phrase "removable batteries" worries me a little. I would hope that they're reasonably secured so that I don't need to be worried if I have it chained up outside while I'm at work. Something like this does seem kind of appealing.
  - torgian 5y ago
    Why does it worry you? Cars have removable batteries.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      ICE starting batteries are a tiny fraction of the price of this battery, and even those are stored under hoods that are locked from the inside of the vehicle.
      - torgian 5y ago
        Oh ok I think I understand what the problem is now. Sorry, I was genuinely confused for a second there, not sure why. Maybe I’m just getting old lol
    - dhosek 5y ago
      An automobile battery is around $100-200 and not easily accessed. This battery is around $1000 and there's little detail on how it's secured. That would be a serious consideration for me if I were to consider buying one of these.
hprotagonist 5y ago
The problems with electric motorcycles are well-summarised here: "Why electric motorcycles are failing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM . It's just kind of a bad product/market fit. I am not willing to pay 6 grand for a bike with a 37 mile highway range, sorry. My equivalently-priced ICE bike gets two times that _per gallon_. The key, i think, is to realize that what good electric motors give us is a moped that doesn't suck. It's a different market entirely, it's The Right Answer, and they are predictably selling like hotcakes. 3 grand, no license or insurance paperwork, you can use 'em on bike paths, and 50 mph range and if your battery shits out, well, you have a _bicycle_, you'll get home -- that's a city commuter worth considering!
- stefan_ 5y ago
  Like you are going to have a choice. There is going to be a day you can't register a combustion engine vehicle, but frankly given motorcycle manufacturers are doing everything in their power to make their bikes as loud and obnoxious as possible, it's going to be much much sooner.
  - hprotagonist 5y ago
    Don't conflate the manufacturers with the aftermarket pipes crowd. All my bikes have been quite polite, and have all had OEM pipes. I don't see a day when ICE becomes impossible to use. I do see a day where ICE engines are what horses became: basically weird niche toys that weirdoes and rich people play with because they like them, but no longer even close to the dominant transportation method.
  - thghtihadanacct 5y ago
    you just dont like harleys
    - timbit42 5y ago
      The only people who like Harleys are the people driving them because the noise goes out the back and they don't realize it's a lot louder for everyone else.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
neom 5y ago
For the last few months I've been watching Wheelsboy[1], this youtube channel that basically keeps tabs on and reviews the emerging Chinese EV market. It's interesting to me that the EV industry in China is just getting better and better and better, cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, and they're not paying very much attention to any market other than China itself. I don't know that it's nobody noticed more that China doesn't care about selling the rest of the world as much? (And in some instances it would be advantages not to share?) [1] https://www.youtube.com/user/Cyxzone https://www.youtube.com/user/Cyxzone
- legostormtroopr 5y ago
  China has about a quarter of the world, and a rapidly growing middle class. For a Chinese manufacturer, selling to China means targeting 1 language and 1 regulatory landscape, and yet still covering a huge number of people. Exporting just explodes the complexity dramatically, so its no wonder they have the focus they have.
- vmception 5y ago
  Although I'm more willing to look at positive advancements in China than most westerners that I know, it has been interesting to me to see similar youtubers eventually leave china after years of positive videos and just go on a rant about everything that's not good culturally there. Like in a mic-drop kind of way as if they've made a resolve to never go back.
  - neom 5y ago
    Off topic a bit. I don't watch serpentza regularly but I did see that happen with him, although I must say the manner of the switch and the stories he tells on "the other side" make me uneasy that there isn't something more going on there, but who knows. Have there been others that are as dramatic as him?
    - vmception 5y ago
      Not really sure, I also personally some people that became disillusioned after being very tolerant. (I also know people that integrate very well in that society and like what's going on more than their experience in western societies.) When I clicked the above youtube link, I saw the similarities to reviewing electronics and advancements with smiling faces that serpentza used to have, before doing a total 180.
postalrat 5y ago
I'd love to find a reasonably priced electric scooter. Here scooters can park on the sidewalk and in bike racks. Motorcycles get ticketed.
- timbit42 5y ago
  Are you referring to those electric skateboards with handlebars or something more like a Vespa?
seb2170 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s
chunkyks 5y ago
Ten years ago, I rode the Harley Livewire when they toured it around the country. I was sold on electric bikes immediately, just not that one; that one had all the trappings that make me dislike Harley, but I was totally sold on electric, my next bike would definitely be electric. Fast forward to 2019, its time for me to replace my ICE bike. I go shopping and... Literally nothing with any other modern features, and prices are still bonkers. I wanted safety features: traction control, abs, wheelie control, etc. And 20kUSD was the way upper limit. I also wanted to be able to actually go to a place and buy one. And be confident that if I have problems (admittedly less likely with electric, but still possible), I have somewhere to take it to that someone will deal with it under warranty. I was really gung-ho to get electric this time around. Maybe next time, in ten years, when my 200hp supercharged all-singing all-dancing sub-20k bike gets long in the tooth, there'll actually be something in the market.
- chunkyks 5y ago
  Also, for reference, Zero's SRS is pretty badass: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-srs https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-srs - if they just licensed Bosch's electronic safety brains, I'd be all over it. But, even not considering the safety electronics, it's still a few grand more and generally just-a-little-bit-less-nice-along-all-other-dimensions-except-exhaust than what I ended up with: https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/z/z-hypernaked/z-h2 https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/z/z-hypernaked/z-h...
kabdib 5y ago
When I was actively riding, I would often do 400-500 mile days for pleasure. A bike with even a 200 mile range would just not work. A tenth that range is just terrible. (I retired from motorcycling over a year ago -- getting old and COVID-19's impact on hospitals were the main reasons).
- ladberg 5y ago
  Honestly curious, how can riding 500 miles in a day be pleasurable? The only time I've done that is in a road trip in a car and it wasn't nice even with friends, climate control, no wind in my face, cruise control, and music/podcasts. Were you just riding 500 miles around for fun or to get somewhere? Was it the scenery or just the ride?
  - kabdib 5y ago
    I have a nice bike, a 1200cc sport-touring model basically designed to go all day at 80 MPH, with a faring and good windscreen. Stock seat was terrible, so I had one custom made at shop near Seattle. Bicycle shorts, a really good one-piece suit, good boots and gloves. Earplugs (even though you're probably not supposed to use them) reduce wind noise and seem to reduce fatigue, too. I took plenty of rest stops; every hour or two. Hydration and light snacking kept me alert. And a mid-day nap. :-) I rode for the ride and the scenery. California roads were nice pretty much year-round. Washington State has some great mountain roads (the Cascade Loop in particular; Hwy 20 is one of the best roads I've ridden and the scenery is fantastic) but they're impassable (on a bike) in winter. I'll admit to using a bit of ibuprofen / tylenol around mile 400, even a gel-packed seat gets hard on a long day. One of my regrets is that I never qualified for an Ironbutt 1000. Here's how I got started: https://dadhacker-125488.ingress-alpha.easywp.com/munch/ https://dadhacker-125488.ingress-alpha.easywp.com/munch/
torgian 5y ago
I don’t understand why the states just won’t adopt electric scooters. In mainland China, electric scooters are a dime a dozen. For the cheapest, you have basic lead-acid batteries to power them. Slightly more expensive gets you better batteries and longer range. They’re all chargeable via a basic electrical plugin. They’re cheaper than those “cheap” American models. Range is shit, maybe 100km at the most, but almost everyone uses them to go to work, run errands, etc.
- RappingBoomer 5y ago
  americans don't get to have cheap stuff...that is reserved for citizens of real democracies
  - torgian 5y ago
    Well, I’m pretty sure that’s not the reason. I feel like the real reason are the laws involved. I’m pretty sure a lot of people would jump at the chance to own a 2or 3k electric scooter that is self repairable with a universal battery type that can be used in any other electric scooter on the market. The corps won’t make that though.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      The regulations for 2 wheeled vehicles in the US are not stringent. Electric scooters are already widely available. e.g.: https://www.niu.com/en/niu-store-finder/find-store https://www.niu.com/en/niu-store-finder/find-store
- kube-system 5y ago
  There are electric rental scooters littering the streets of most major US cities. They have their uses, but Americans aren't about to use them for primary transportation. It is very common for Americans to work outside of their neighborhood and have commutes that require the use of roadways with higher traffic speeds than neighborhood streets.
  - 5y ago
gnarcoregrizz 5y ago
sweet, dot complaint, reasonably priced. 2.3kwh battery isnt that big for a 12kw 70 mph bike though, range is probably isnt good, especially on highway, not that i'd want to drive it on one. my favorite mini moto is the sur-ron. $4200, 50 mph, 110 lbs, 5kw motor, 2kwh, ~30 mile range (60 with aftermarket battery), well built, tons of aftermarket mods. some people slap pedals on it to make it an "ebike" but its 80% dirt bike 20% downhill mountain bike. the best part is its quiet so you can get away with riding it places where you shouldn't ride a dirt bike, though not saying you should. so fun. https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/ https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/
- arran-nz 5y ago
  Another Sur-ron rider here! In Germany, a Road Legal is available. It's an amazing machine due to the fact you can go almost anywhere with it - I can go completely off-road in the mountains and go from A to B on the streets without issue.
p1mrx 5y ago
When I've looked at specs for electric motorcycles, charging was limited to 1.5-3 kW on AC. It would be nice to have car-like >7 kW charging on an efficient bike, because then all those random J1772 plugs could be used for point-to-point travel. (That said, I've never ridden a motorcycle because I'd rather not die.)
mlanett2 5y ago
Here is why it is so cheap: "range drops down to just 37 miles at highway speeds"
seb2170 5y ago
There are many actual e-motorcycles out there. The main question is what you want it for. Battery in EVs do cost 50-60% value, and battery equals range. Here is one for under 10k US on-road. Takes a while to get one as production is limited. However, its worth thee wait. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s
14 5y ago
My buddy has a Zero electric motorcycle and it is fun to ride but has limitations I am not ready to give up a gas motorcycle for. But first the price. He paid something like $16-17k CAD for his bike. I bought my Honda for less then $2k and I can leave him in the dust all day long. The limitations I didn’t like were one range. It could not go long enough and are rides were short lived. We have beautiful open roads so it is easy to go 40km in one direction. You may not make it back if you went much farther. Second was it’s top speed. It could reach 140km/hr but it could not sustain that speed for more then a little bit then the battery management system would slow you down so then battery didn’t over heat. I know some will argue that the speed I mentioned is faster then any speed limit around but that is besides the point I can go to a track and race legally and that bike just doesn’t have it. Lastly the charge time. They sell the bike with the basic charger and it takes 10 hours to charge for about 85km range. They offer a fast charger but it was over $1000. I personally think they should have given all owners a fast charger I think the 10hr charge really takes away from the bike and after spending so much my buddy was hesitant to spend even more. The pros of this bike were it was silent. Also very zippy off the line. But still my gas bike from 1983 can kick it’s ass all day long. After owning it a few years he is now wanting to sell it and buy a Honda dual sport gas bike.
russellbeattie 5y ago
So right now in California, there is a huge gap between what ebikes are capable of, and what is considered a motorized scooter/motorcycle. It's starting to cause issues on roads and trails and will need to be addressed ASAP. Links below, but basically, it's trivial to build or buy an electric bike that will hit 40mph, 50mph, or more, and thousands of these bikes in all shapes and forms are already out there. Yet the law assume pedaled ebikes will top out at 28mph and then it addresses motorbikes and mopeds. With nothing in between. So all these kids (and many adults) are out there riding Surrons going 40mph+ down main roads and dirt trails, pretending they're just class 3 ebikes that need neither a driver's license nor a motorcycle license. Kids end up getting mad at cops telling them they can't ride where they're riding, but the fact is there needs to be clearer guidelines for what is and isn't an ebike. All that said, this a transformative area, mark my words. Imagine if Apple were to suddenly develop a range of smart ebikes that go up to 50mph and were linked into your health monitoring, etc. eTrikes for the huge number of retired Boomers and eBikes with knobby tires for the kiddos, and a mid range for the millennial commuter. All powered by the Apple eMotor™... https://i1.wp.com/bikinginla.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/California-Ebike-Regulations.jpg?ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/bikinginla.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/... https://www.chp.ca.gov/programs-services/programs/california-motorcyclist-safety/motorcycles-and-similar-vehicles https://www.chp.ca.gov/programs-services/programs/california...
russellbeattie 5y ago
Not sure I believe the speed claims. It's a 12kw peak motor, which is equivalent to 16hp. That's really not a motor for highway speeds for anyone weighing over 98lbs. Still, it will go pretty damn fast.
- aitchnyu 5y ago
  EU has a class of 125cc, 11 hp scooters and bikes that must be able to hit 100 kph/62 mph. I own a bike from this class in India, and it can do it in level road with no headwind but it doesnt feel good. In France, I once saw a scooter rider with jaw to handlebar to keep his speed.
solarkraft 5y ago
If I didn’t have to get an extra license for it (Europe) I’d be tempted to get one of these things (Specifically a SuperSOCO TC Max). They’re even quite close to being usable for longer ranges.
moistly 5y ago
Motorcycles are barely used in the US compared to many of the SE Asian nations. We’ll know electric motorcycles have made it big when we see them used preferentially in Vietnam. Also, that might make an actual “green” difference: billions of riders replacing older, more polluting bikes than typically being ridden by a few million ppl in the US.
Worldbeater1 5y ago
With ALL new, cutting edge technology, especially the kind that breaks old, ingrained habits and ways of thinking, it takes time to build that awareness, educate the consumer and gain their trust before they open their wallet. Electric motorcycles WILL become a thing, especially when startups like Evoke Motorcycles are designing and manufacturing super fun, quick bikes that can compete with most other motoccyles out there already. Don’t knock it till you try it!

63 points by danboarder 5y ago

This is significant because a traditional ICE powered bike in the same class like the Yamaha TW200 costs about $4,500 brand new. This electric bike seems to have very similar performance characteristics for only about $1,000 more. That truly is competitive with ICE in just about every category. Still, a bike like the TW200 has 30 years of parts and knowledge on the market that the electric bike doesn't. But this is exactly what needs to happen for those parts and knowledge to get built.

abemiller 5y ago
Just about every category except for distance. The ICE motor can go closer to 120 highway miles before a refuel, as opposed to 37. That's enough to actually get you to the next gas station, and then once your there you just have to fill up and be on your way. With the electric bike if you can even make it between chargers, you'll have to sit and wait for it to recharge every 40 miles...
- akira2501 5y ago
  You can also attach fuel cans to a bike, and the extra weight is more than justified by the additional range. The same would not be true of battery packs.
- zelon88 5y ago
  I agree with you. But so far, most companies seem to prioritize competitive range instead of competitive pricing. I own a TW200 and most of the trails I ride on in MA and NH are under 10 miles long anyway. They claim the ES1 can go 37 miles at highway speed. Anyone with a TW200 will tell you... Small bikes aren't comfy for the highway. It's not fun to hold the throttle wide open and still get passed by cars going 20mph faster than you. It's scary. So people buying the ES1 aren't going to be using it for that. The important part, to me, is the weight. Both the TW200 and the ES1 are 276 lbs. That means it's still small and light enough to reasonably lift into the bed of a pickup truck or support on a receiver mounted rack.
kube-system 5y ago
The performance figures posted are for the extended battery model which is $6,980 ... and there are some really good performing bikes in that price range. And for not much more you could get a used Zero FX.

ChuckMcM 5y ago

My neighbor has one of these and it is pretty awesome. I asked about it when it went by me on one of my walks and I realized it had to be electric given its lack of engine noise. He really likes it and uses it to commute around the Bay Area. I'm seriously considering getting one. I used to have a Honda Scooter which had a top end of about 50 which was okay for streets and stuff but if you wanted to use an expressway briefly you were definitely at a disadvantage.

dhosek 5y ago
The phrase "removable batteries" worries me a little. I would hope that they're reasonably secured so that I don't need to be worried if I have it chained up outside while I'm at work. Something like this does seem kind of appealing.
- torgian 5y ago
  Why does it worry you? Cars have removable batteries.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    ICE starting batteries are a tiny fraction of the price of this battery, and even those are stored under hoods that are locked from the inside of the vehicle.
    - torgian 5y ago
      Oh ok I think I understand what the problem is now. Sorry, I was genuinely confused for a second there, not sure why. Maybe I’m just getting old lol
  - dhosek 5y ago
    An automobile battery is around $100-200 and not easily accessed. This battery is around $1000 and there's little detail on how it's secured. That would be a serious consideration for me if I were to consider buying one of these.

hprotagonist 5y ago

The problems with electric motorcycles are well-summarised here: "Why electric motorcycles are failing" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2zlYpy6QCM . It's just kind of a bad product/market fit. I am not willing to pay 6 grand for a bike with a 37 mile highway range, sorry. My equivalently-priced ICE bike gets two times that _per gallon_. The key, i think, is to realize that what good electric motors give us is a moped that doesn't suck. It's a different market entirely, it's The Right Answer, and they are predictably selling like hotcakes. 3 grand, no license or insurance paperwork, you can use 'em on bike paths, and 50 mph range and if your battery shits out, well, you have a _bicycle_, you'll get home -- that's a city commuter worth considering!

stefan_ 5y ago
Like you are going to have a choice. There is going to be a day you can't register a combustion engine vehicle, but frankly given motorcycle manufacturers are doing everything in their power to make their bikes as loud and obnoxious as possible, it's going to be much much sooner.
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  Don't conflate the manufacturers with the aftermarket pipes crowd. All my bikes have been quite polite, and have all had OEM pipes. I don't see a day when ICE becomes impossible to use. I do see a day where ICE engines are what horses became: basically weird niche toys that weirdoes and rich people play with because they like them, but no longer even close to the dominant transportation method.
- thghtihadanacct 5y ago
  you just dont like harleys
  - timbit42 5y ago
    The only people who like Harleys are the people driving them because the noise goes out the back and they don't realize it's a lot louder for everyone else.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

neom 5y ago

For the last few months I've been watching Wheelsboy[1], this youtube channel that basically keeps tabs on and reviews the emerging Chinese EV market. It's interesting to me that the EV industry in China is just getting better and better and better, cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, and they're not paying very much attention to any market other than China itself. I don't know that it's nobody noticed more that China doesn't care about selling the rest of the world as much? (And in some instances it would be advantages not to share?) [1] https://www.youtube.com/user/Cyxzone https://www.youtube.com/user/Cyxzone

legostormtroopr 5y ago
China has about a quarter of the world, and a rapidly growing middle class. For a Chinese manufacturer, selling to China means targeting 1 language and 1 regulatory landscape, and yet still covering a huge number of people. Exporting just explodes the complexity dramatically, so its no wonder they have the focus they have.
vmception 5y ago
Although I'm more willing to look at positive advancements in China than most westerners that I know, it has been interesting to me to see similar youtubers eventually leave china after years of positive videos and just go on a rant about everything that's not good culturally there. Like in a mic-drop kind of way as if they've made a resolve to never go back.
- neom 5y ago
  Off topic a bit. I don't watch serpentza regularly but I did see that happen with him, although I must say the manner of the switch and the stories he tells on "the other side" make me uneasy that there isn't something more going on there, but who knows. Have there been others that are as dramatic as him?
  - vmception 5y ago
    Not really sure, I also personally some people that became disillusioned after being very tolerant. (I also know people that integrate very well in that society and like what's going on more than their experience in western societies.) When I clicked the above youtube link, I saw the similarities to reviewing electronics and advancements with smiling faces that serpentza used to have, before doing a total 180.

postalrat 5y ago

I'd love to find a reasonably priced electric scooter. Here scooters can park on the sidewalk and in bike racks. Motorcycles get ticketed.

timbit42 5y ago
Are you referring to those electric skateboards with handlebars or something more like a Vespa?

seb2170 5y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s

chunkyks 5y ago

Ten years ago, I rode the Harley Livewire when they toured it around the country. I was sold on electric bikes immediately, just not that one; that one had all the trappings that make me dislike Harley, but I was totally sold on electric, my next bike would definitely be electric. Fast forward to 2019, its time for me to replace my ICE bike. I go shopping and... Literally nothing with any other modern features, and prices are still bonkers. I wanted safety features: traction control, abs, wheelie control, etc. And 20kUSD was the way upper limit. I also wanted to be able to actually go to a place and buy one. And be confident that if I have problems (admittedly less likely with electric, but still possible), I have somewhere to take it to that someone will deal with it under warranty. I was really gung-ho to get electric this time around. Maybe next time, in ten years, when my 200hp supercharged all-singing all-dancing sub-20k bike gets long in the tooth, there'll actually be something in the market.

chunkyks 5y ago
Also, for reference, Zero's SRS is pretty badass: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-srs https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-srs - if they just licensed Bosch's electronic safety brains, I'd be all over it. But, even not considering the safety electronics, it's still a few grand more and generally just-a-little-bit-less-nice-along-all-other-dimensions-except-exhaust than what I ended up with: https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/z/z-hypernaked/z-h2 https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/z/z-hypernaked/z-h...

kabdib 5y ago

When I was actively riding, I would often do 400-500 mile days for pleasure. A bike with even a 200 mile range would just not work. A tenth that range is just terrible. (I retired from motorcycling over a year ago -- getting old and COVID-19's impact on hospitals were the main reasons).

ladberg 5y ago
Honestly curious, how can riding 500 miles in a day be pleasurable? The only time I've done that is in a road trip in a car and it wasn't nice even with friends, climate control, no wind in my face, cruise control, and music/podcasts. Were you just riding 500 miles around for fun or to get somewhere? Was it the scenery or just the ride?
- kabdib 5y ago
  I have a nice bike, a 1200cc sport-touring model basically designed to go all day at 80 MPH, with a faring and good windscreen. Stock seat was terrible, so I had one custom made at shop near Seattle. Bicycle shorts, a really good one-piece suit, good boots and gloves. Earplugs (even though you're probably not supposed to use them) reduce wind noise and seem to reduce fatigue, too. I took plenty of rest stops; every hour or two. Hydration and light snacking kept me alert. And a mid-day nap. :-) I rode for the ride and the scenery. California roads were nice pretty much year-round. Washington State has some great mountain roads (the Cascade Loop in particular; Hwy 20 is one of the best roads I've ridden and the scenery is fantastic) but they're impassable (on a bike) in winter. I'll admit to using a bit of ibuprofen / tylenol around mile 400, even a gel-packed seat gets hard on a long day. One of my regrets is that I never qualified for an Ironbutt 1000. Here's how I got started: https://dadhacker-125488.ingress-alpha.easywp.com/munch/ https://dadhacker-125488.ingress-alpha.easywp.com/munch/

torgian 5y ago

I don’t understand why the states just won’t adopt electric scooters. In mainland China, electric scooters are a dime a dozen. For the cheapest, you have basic lead-acid batteries to power them. Slightly more expensive gets you better batteries and longer range. They’re all chargeable via a basic electrical plugin. They’re cheaper than those “cheap” American models. Range is shit, maybe 100km at the most, but almost everyone uses them to go to work, run errands, etc.

RappingBoomer 5y ago
americans don't get to have cheap stuff...that is reserved for citizens of real democracies
- torgian 5y ago
  Well, I’m pretty sure that’s not the reason. I feel like the real reason are the laws involved. I’m pretty sure a lot of people would jump at the chance to own a 2or 3k electric scooter that is self repairable with a universal battery type that can be used in any other electric scooter on the market. The corps won’t make that though.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    The regulations for 2 wheeled vehicles in the US are not stringent. Electric scooters are already widely available. e.g.: https://www.niu.com/en/niu-store-finder/find-store https://www.niu.com/en/niu-store-finder/find-store
kube-system 5y ago
There are electric rental scooters littering the streets of most major US cities. They have their uses, but Americans aren't about to use them for primary transportation. It is very common for Americans to work outside of their neighborhood and have commutes that require the use of roadways with higher traffic speeds than neighborhood streets.
- 5y ago

gnarcoregrizz 5y ago

sweet, dot complaint, reasonably priced. 2.3kwh battery isnt that big for a 12kw 70 mph bike though, range is probably isnt good, especially on highway, not that i'd want to drive it on one. my favorite mini moto is the sur-ron. $4200, 50 mph, 110 lbs, 5kw motor, 2kwh, ~30 mile range (60 with aftermarket battery), well built, tons of aftermarket mods. some people slap pedals on it to make it an "ebike" but its 80% dirt bike 20% downhill mountain bike. the best part is its quiet so you can get away with riding it places where you shouldn't ride a dirt bike, though not saying you should. so fun. https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/ https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/

arran-nz 5y ago
Another Sur-ron rider here! In Germany, a Road Legal is available. It's an amazing machine due to the fact you can go almost anywhere with it - I can go completely off-road in the mountains and go from A to B on the streets without issue.

p1mrx 5y ago

When I've looked at specs for electric motorcycles, charging was limited to 1.5-3 kW on AC. It would be nice to have car-like >7 kW charging on an efficient bike, because then all those random J1772 plugs could be used for point-to-point travel. (That said, I've never ridden a motorcycle because I'd rather not die.)

mlanett2 5y ago

Here is why it is so cheap: "range drops down to just 37 miles at highway speeds"

seb2170 5y ago

There are many actual e-motorcycles out there. The main question is what you want it for. Battery in EVs do cost 50-60% value, and battery equals range. Here is one for under 10k US on-road. Takes a while to get one as production is limited. However, its worth thee wait. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkn5wtPYvOM&t=40s

14 5y ago

My buddy has a Zero electric motorcycle and it is fun to ride but has limitations I am not ready to give up a gas motorcycle for. But first the price. He paid something like $16-17k CAD for his bike. I bought my Honda for less then $2k and I can leave him in the dust all day long. The limitations I didn’t like were one range. It could not go long enough and are rides were short lived. We have beautiful open roads so it is easy to go 40km in one direction. You may not make it back if you went much farther. Second was it’s top speed. It could reach 140km/hr but it could not sustain that speed for more then a little bit then the battery management system would slow you down so then battery didn’t over heat. I know some will argue that the speed I mentioned is faster then any speed limit around but that is besides the point I can go to a track and race legally and that bike just doesn’t have it. Lastly the charge time. They sell the bike with the basic charger and it takes 10 hours to charge for about 85km range. They offer a fast charger but it was over $1000. I personally think they should have given all owners a fast charger I think the 10hr charge really takes away from the bike and after spending so much my buddy was hesitant to spend even more. The pros of this bike were it was silent. Also very zippy off the line. But still my gas bike from 1983 can kick it’s ass all day long. After owning it a few years he is now wanting to sell it and buy a Honda dual sport gas bike.

russellbeattie 5y ago

So right now in California, there is a huge gap between what ebikes are capable of, and what is considered a motorized scooter/motorcycle. It's starting to cause issues on roads and trails and will need to be addressed ASAP. Links below, but basically, it's trivial to build or buy an electric bike that will hit 40mph, 50mph, or more, and thousands of these bikes in all shapes and forms are already out there. Yet the law assume pedaled ebikes will top out at 28mph and then it addresses motorbikes and mopeds. With nothing in between. So all these kids (and many adults) are out there riding Surrons going 40mph+ down main roads and dirt trails, pretending they're just class 3 ebikes that need neither a driver's license nor a motorcycle license. Kids end up getting mad at cops telling them they can't ride where they're riding, but the fact is there needs to be clearer guidelines for what is and isn't an ebike. All that said, this a transformative area, mark my words. Imagine if Apple were to suddenly develop a range of smart ebikes that go up to 50mph and were linked into your health monitoring, etc. eTrikes for the huge number of retired Boomers and eBikes with knobby tires for the kiddos, and a mid range for the millennial commuter. All powered by the Apple eMotor™... https://i1.wp.com/bikinginla.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/California-Ebike-Regulations.jpg?ssl=1 https://i1.wp.com/bikinginla.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/... https://www.chp.ca.gov/programs-services/programs/california-motorcyclist-safety/motorcycles-and-similar-vehicles https://www.chp.ca.gov/programs-services/programs/california...

russellbeattie 5y ago

Not sure I believe the speed claims. It's a 12kw peak motor, which is equivalent to 16hp. That's really not a motor for highway speeds for anyone weighing over 98lbs. Still, it will go pretty damn fast.

aitchnyu 5y ago
EU has a class of 125cc, 11 hp scooters and bikes that must be able to hit 100 kph/62 mph. I own a bike from this class in India, and it can do it in level road with no headwind but it doesnt feel good. In France, I once saw a scooter rider with jaw to handlebar to keep his speed.

solarkraft 5y ago

If I didn’t have to get an extra license for it (Europe) I’d be tempted to get one of these things (Specifically a SuperSOCO TC Max). They’re even quite close to being usable for longer ranges.

moistly 5y ago

Motorcycles are barely used in the US compared to many of the SE Asian nations. We’ll know electric motorcycles have made it big when we see them used preferentially in Vietnam. Also, that might make an actual “green” difference: billions of riders replacing older, more polluting bikes than typically being ridden by a few million ppl in the US.

Worldbeater1 5y ago

With ALL new, cutting edge technology, especially the kind that breaks old, ingrained habits and ways of thinking, it takes time to build that awareness, educate the consumer and gain their trust before they open their wallet. Electric motorcycles WILL become a thing, especially when startups like Evoke Motorcycles are designing and manufacturing super fun, quick bikes that can compete with most other motoccyles out there already. Don’t knock it till you try it!