5 ms·

I don't have a pilot license, but from what I recall of limited training, don't you do most of your training based on Heading Indicator? You adjust it at beginn

I don't have a pilot license, but from what I recall of limited training, don't you do most of your training based on Heading Indicator? You adjust it at beginning, which can easily be switched to whatever heading/offset of the runway is (true or magnetic); then reset it to compass as needed on level flight - which is rare during short training flights, and could be adjusted to appropriate offset. So I don't think training itself will be a problem. Once you have actual flights in those aircraft though, I imagine it'll be a bigger kerfuffle for pilots.

p_l 5y ago
a lot of smaller planes have only magnetic compass, no gyro-based heading indicator
- RNCTX 5y ago
  Not true, even the lowly rental C172 with 3 shades of paint and carpet at any raggedy flight school will have a gyro based indicator. Magnetic course calculation is only taught at the initial license level and to instructors. Anyone else is flying by GPS or radio-based nav.
  - NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
    OK but the vacuum gyro in said raggedy-ass 172 needs setting against something as part of the checklist (and quite possibly in flight), which today is the magnetic compass.
    - RNCTX 5y ago
      Yeah, but this is really only applicable to VFR-only airplanes (mostly trainers). I doubt there are many people really traveling in airplanes without any sort of precision nav equipment. Practically, it doesn't matter which direction the gyro points as long as you are receiving a VOR signal or GPS signal on a VFR flight. And yeah, a lot in flight. By definition those gyros are gonna be old, and they cost more to overhaul than they're worth so people who are too cheap to go buy an electronic replacement replace used for used off of eBay or the local radio shop's junk shelf. They're not gonna be reliable, at all. But, for VFR purposes it doesn't matter and for IFR purposes you shouldn't be flying such an airplane with such equipment IFR anyway, so...
    - FabHK 5y ago
      Right. And then you'd have to apply a correction (which might change a tiny bit over several hundreds of miles flown, or over the years). But no need to change anything in the aircraft, as far as I can tell. Just planning and procedures.
  - p_l 5y ago
    Great, C172 counts as "more expensive" option here, training will go on raggedy ass C150 recovered from a crash, be happy if you get turn indicator.
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      That in the US? Here in Europe both are needed to be kept to pretty high standards. You can do basically nothing yourself anymore.
      - p_l 5y ago
        No, in Europe. There's surprising amount of what is actually allowed and what is believed to be allowed often doesn't match :) Most GA planes in Poland would be VFR only, I bet.
  - 535188B17C93743 5y ago
    They just said "a lot of". There are a lot of pre-1950 planes out there flying without a 6 pack to be heard of. Good ole stick and rudder flying. No gyro instruments needed... just altimeter, airspeed, tach, fuel, and the horizon.
    - adolph 5y ago
      NBC: Harrison Ford Lands On Taxiway https://www.avweb.com/news/nbc-harrison-ford-lands-on-taxiway/ https://www.avweb.com/news/nbc-harrison-ford-lands-on-taxiwa...
- repiret 5y ago
  While it’s legal under part 91 to have only a magnetic compass, a vaccine powered gyro DI (or solid state equivalent) can be found in the majority of the GA fleet. The aircraft without a DI are typically ones with bush flying or acrobatic missions, where pilots don’t spend much time looking at their instruments for navigation anyway.
  - _ea1k 5y ago
    It took me a while to realize that you meant vacuum powered. :)
    - AdamN 5y ago
      Q up there made a Freudian slip :-)
  - AdrianB1 5y ago
    In my country (Romania) all of the small planes I flied (about a dozen) had just 2 or 3 magnetic compasses. These planes are allowed to fly only on visual orientation conditions (weird local laws), so navigation is not a real concern.
    - p_l 5y ago
      I think any requirement to have gyroscope-based instruments only comes in with IFR (at the very least you need turn indicator due to lack of horizon reference). It's not any weird local laws, it's common aviation laws :) though navigation is a big thing even in VFR ;)
      - AdrianB1 5y ago
        The weird local law is that small planes are not allowed to fly IFR even if they are equipped for that and the pilot is rated. These planes are not even allowed to fly above a low-level cloud with partial coverage.

p_l 5y ago

a lot of smaller planes have only magnetic compass, no gyro-based heading indicator

RNCTX 5y ago
Not true, even the lowly rental C172 with 3 shades of paint and carpet at any raggedy flight school will have a gyro based indicator. Magnetic course calculation is only taught at the initial license level and to instructors. Anyone else is flying by GPS or radio-based nav.
- NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
  OK but the vacuum gyro in said raggedy-ass 172 needs setting against something as part of the checklist (and quite possibly in flight), which today is the magnetic compass.
  - RNCTX 5y ago
    Yeah, but this is really only applicable to VFR-only airplanes (mostly trainers). I doubt there are many people really traveling in airplanes without any sort of precision nav equipment. Practically, it doesn't matter which direction the gyro points as long as you are receiving a VOR signal or GPS signal on a VFR flight. And yeah, a lot in flight. By definition those gyros are gonna be old, and they cost more to overhaul than they're worth so people who are too cheap to go buy an electronic replacement replace used for used off of eBay or the local radio shop's junk shelf. They're not gonna be reliable, at all. But, for VFR purposes it doesn't matter and for IFR purposes you shouldn't be flying such an airplane with such equipment IFR anyway, so...
  - FabHK 5y ago
    Right. And then you'd have to apply a correction (which might change a tiny bit over several hundreds of miles flown, or over the years). But no need to change anything in the aircraft, as far as I can tell. Just planning and procedures.
- p_l 5y ago
  Great, C172 counts as "more expensive" option here, training will go on raggedy ass C150 recovered from a crash, be happy if you get turn indicator.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    That in the US? Here in Europe both are needed to be kept to pretty high standards. You can do basically nothing yourself anymore.
    - p_l 5y ago
      No, in Europe. There's surprising amount of what is actually allowed and what is believed to be allowed often doesn't match :) Most GA planes in Poland would be VFR only, I bet.
- 535188B17C93743 5y ago
  They just said "a lot of". There are a lot of pre-1950 planes out there flying without a 6 pack to be heard of. Good ole stick and rudder flying. No gyro instruments needed... just altimeter, airspeed, tach, fuel, and the horizon.
  - adolph 5y ago
    NBC: Harrison Ford Lands On Taxiway https://www.avweb.com/news/nbc-harrison-ford-lands-on-taxiway/ https://www.avweb.com/news/nbc-harrison-ford-lands-on-taxiwa...
repiret 5y ago
While it’s legal under part 91 to have only a magnetic compass, a vaccine powered gyro DI (or solid state equivalent) can be found in the majority of the GA fleet. The aircraft without a DI are typically ones with bush flying or acrobatic missions, where pilots don’t spend much time looking at their instruments for navigation anyway.
- _ea1k 5y ago
  It took me a while to realize that you meant vacuum powered. :)
  - AdamN 5y ago
    Q up there made a Freudian slip :-)
- AdrianB1 5y ago
  In my country (Romania) all of the small planes I flied (about a dozen) had just 2 or 3 magnetic compasses. These planes are allowed to fly only on visual orientation conditions (weird local laws), so navigation is not a real concern.
  - p_l 5y ago
    I think any requirement to have gyroscope-based instruments only comes in with IFR (at the very least you need turn indicator due to lack of horizon reference). It's not any weird local laws, it's common aviation laws :) though navigation is a big thing even in VFR ;)
    - AdrianB1 5y ago
      The weird local law is that small planes are not allowed to fly IFR even if they are equipped for that and the pilot is rated. These planes are not even allowed to fly above a low-level cloud with partial coverage.