3 ms·

Would you go to someone who has Crohn's disease and tell them "you're doing that to yourself"? No? So why do it with depression?

hedberg10 5y ago
Never mentioned Crohn's. Why are you bringing that up? Same with the comment above above: Ask yourself, why are you deflecting, why are you removing agency? Let's say depression is a purely biological problem, the chemical imbalance (it isn't), take a pill and be be healed! Right? Now who sells that pill? Who lobbied to have depression seen as a disease? Who invented the CO2 footprint? BP.
- krageon 5y ago
  > Why are you bringing that up? Are you asking why would they bring up a disease in a talk about what is commonly thought of as diseases, or are you asking something else? > why are you deflecting This is funny, because you are deflecting in your comment as well. If you feel like folks should not deflect, you should engage with what they say and then tell them to not deflect. Then it becomes more relatable, because it is not hypocritical :) > chemical imbalance (it isn't) Depression is a catchall term for many different problems. Some are well understood to be purely chemical (depression unrelated to thoughts, circumstances or environmental factors such as season or food), some are well understood to be environmental: That means "just stop removing agency" could be a way to tackle it, although it famously does not work for most people. Why do you suppose your answer does not suffice for most? Do you feel this is evidence of yet more weakness? It seems to me you do not enjoy one-dimensional answers to your own thoughts, so why do you insist on having them about other people? > who sells that pill You might say the same thing about the smallpox vaccine: Someone sells it. Following your implied point: Perhaps this means that it is not a problem, clearly money changes hands so perhaps there is a profit motive (and potentially this means it is the only motive and potentially that means the requirements are fabricated. That is quite a leap!). While it is reasonable to follow such a thought process, perhaps in this case it does not suffice to follow it, recognise a potential problem and dismiss the original solution entirely. Mostly because if you talked to even-handed professionals (many of whom have similar concerns as yours, if a bit more nuanced by practical experience and what I would hesitantly call empathy), you might find that folks have considered these questions (and do every single day) and to this date they have not been answered in a way that provides a solution for every single case.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  > Now who sells that pill? Who lobbied to have depression seen as a disease? > Who invented the CO2 footprint? BP. Emacs contains doctor.el which can help with issues like these. Back when I was into conspiracy theories (~2004-2007?), it helped me. One advantage of it is that you can keep your conspiracy theories for yourself.
  - hedberg10 5y ago
    It’s here that British Petroleum, or BP, first promoted and soon successfully popularized the term “carbon footprint" in the early aughts. The company unveiled its “carbon footprint calculator” in 2004 so one could assess how their normal daily life — going to work, buying food, and (gasp) traveling — is largely responsible for heating the globe. A decade and a half later, “carbon footprint” is everywhere. “This is one of the most successful, deceptive PR campaigns maybe ever,” said Benjamin Franta, who researches law and history of science as a J.D.-Ph.D. student at Stanford Law School. ... https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sh... The term was popularized by a $250 million advertising campaign by the oil and gas company BP in an attempt to move public attention away from restricting the activities of fossil fuel companies and onto individual responsibility for solving climate change.[3][4] ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint I have so many bridges to sell!
    - tombert 5y ago
      Your previous comments are dead so I have to respond to multiple posts at once here. Sorry. > He wasn't taken. He took himself. Exercise: Everytime you remove agency, reintroduce it. I used the term "taken" as a rhetorical thing to ask a deeper question about cosmic unfairness. It makes no claims of level of responsibility and I feel like you knew this and just wanted to make a bizarre ramble about something you read in a bad self-help book. > "I am depressed". No, you are depressing yourself. "I am helpless". No, you are making yourself helpless. These are active processes. Let's get more controversial: "I am being bullied". No, you are letting people bully you. The hell does this have to do with my post exactly? I told a story about my cousin dying from a heroin overdose and you go off on (not even) a tangent about bullying or something. Also, that's a pretty ridiculous thing to begin with. How are bullied people "letting themselves" be bullied? A kid that's bigger than them decides to physically hurt a kid smaller/weaker than them. What exactly is the smaller kid supposed to do? This isn't the god damn Karate Kid, life isn't a cheesy eighties movie, most of the time the kid just has to be bullied. It's not fair, it sucks, and victim blaming is not helping anything. > Let's say depression is a purely biological problem, the chemical imbalance (it isn't), take a pill and be be healed! Right? Depression is a blanket term for a lot of things, and is somewhat overloaded. Sometimes people just feel sad, and maybe telling them to get over it will work, but for people like myself with manic depression, it really isn't that simple. You can do any amount of exercise or dieting trying to suck it up, and everything will still feel hopeless, you'll still blame yourself for everything, you'll still catastrophize everything, you'll still yell at people who don't deserve it, and you'll still have to talk yourself out of bed every morning [1]. When that's the case, what exactly are you supposed to do? Are you disputing that those people exist? Also, your hypothetical is completely absurd, there are plenty of things that have physiological causes that we can't just take a pill and be healed with. Do you think cancer is just an attitude problem? How about amputees? Are they just so stupid that they don't take a pill and be healed? What a strange and completely misinformed take. I honestly feel bad for you. Whatever sequence of events led to this strange pseudo-edgelord hardass chud persona must have been tough. [1] Not all depressed people and not all manic depressives. Describing my symptoms.

hedberg10 5y ago

Never mentioned Crohn's. Why are you bringing that up? Same with the comment above above: Ask yourself, why are you deflecting, why are you removing agency? Let's say depression is a purely biological problem, the chemical imbalance (it isn't), take a pill and be be healed! Right? Now who sells that pill? Who lobbied to have depression seen as a disease? Who invented the CO2 footprint? BP.

krageon 5y ago
> Why are you bringing that up? Are you asking why would they bring up a disease in a talk about what is commonly thought of as diseases, or are you asking something else? > why are you deflecting This is funny, because you are deflecting in your comment as well. If you feel like folks should not deflect, you should engage with what they say and then tell them to not deflect. Then it becomes more relatable, because it is not hypocritical :) > chemical imbalance (it isn't) Depression is a catchall term for many different problems. Some are well understood to be purely chemical (depression unrelated to thoughts, circumstances or environmental factors such as season or food), some are well understood to be environmental: That means "just stop removing agency" could be a way to tackle it, although it famously does not work for most people. Why do you suppose your answer does not suffice for most? Do you feel this is evidence of yet more weakness? It seems to me you do not enjoy one-dimensional answers to your own thoughts, so why do you insist on having them about other people? > who sells that pill You might say the same thing about the smallpox vaccine: Someone sells it. Following your implied point: Perhaps this means that it is not a problem, clearly money changes hands so perhaps there is a profit motive (and potentially this means it is the only motive and potentially that means the requirements are fabricated. That is quite a leap!). While it is reasonable to follow such a thought process, perhaps in this case it does not suffice to follow it, recognise a potential problem and dismiss the original solution entirely. Mostly because if you talked to even-handed professionals (many of whom have similar concerns as yours, if a bit more nuanced by practical experience and what I would hesitantly call empathy), you might find that folks have considered these questions (and do every single day) and to this date they have not been answered in a way that provides a solution for every single case.
Fnoord 5y ago
> Now who sells that pill? Who lobbied to have depression seen as a disease? > Who invented the CO2 footprint? BP. Emacs contains doctor.el which can help with issues like these. Back when I was into conspiracy theories (~2004-2007?), it helped me. One advantage of it is that you can keep your conspiracy theories for yourself.
- hedberg10 5y ago
  It’s here that British Petroleum, or BP, first promoted and soon successfully popularized the term “carbon footprint" in the early aughts. The company unveiled its “carbon footprint calculator” in 2004 so one could assess how their normal daily life — going to work, buying food, and (gasp) traveling — is largely responsible for heating the globe. A decade and a half later, “carbon footprint” is everywhere. “This is one of the most successful, deceptive PR campaigns maybe ever,” said Benjamin Franta, who researches law and history of science as a J.D.-Ph.D. student at Stanford Law School. ... https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sh... The term was popularized by a $250 million advertising campaign by the oil and gas company BP in an attempt to move public attention away from restricting the activities of fossil fuel companies and onto individual responsibility for solving climate change.[3][4] ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_footprint I have so many bridges to sell!
  - tombert 5y ago
    Your previous comments are dead so I have to respond to multiple posts at once here. Sorry. > He wasn't taken. He took himself. Exercise: Everytime you remove agency, reintroduce it. I used the term "taken" as a rhetorical thing to ask a deeper question about cosmic unfairness. It makes no claims of level of responsibility and I feel like you knew this and just wanted to make a bizarre ramble about something you read in a bad self-help book. > "I am depressed". No, you are depressing yourself. "I am helpless". No, you are making yourself helpless. These are active processes. Let's get more controversial: "I am being bullied". No, you are letting people bully you. The hell does this have to do with my post exactly? I told a story about my cousin dying from a heroin overdose and you go off on (not even) a tangent about bullying or something. Also, that's a pretty ridiculous thing to begin with. How are bullied people "letting themselves" be bullied? A kid that's bigger than them decides to physically hurt a kid smaller/weaker than them. What exactly is the smaller kid supposed to do? This isn't the god damn Karate Kid, life isn't a cheesy eighties movie, most of the time the kid just has to be bullied. It's not fair, it sucks, and victim blaming is not helping anything. > Let's say depression is a purely biological problem, the chemical imbalance (it isn't), take a pill and be be healed! Right? Depression is a blanket term for a lot of things, and is somewhat overloaded. Sometimes people just feel sad, and maybe telling them to get over it will work, but for people like myself with manic depression, it really isn't that simple. You can do any amount of exercise or dieting trying to suck it up, and everything will still feel hopeless, you'll still blame yourself for everything, you'll still catastrophize everything, you'll still yell at people who don't deserve it, and you'll still have to talk yourself out of bed every morning [1]. When that's the case, what exactly are you supposed to do? Are you disputing that those people exist? Also, your hypothetical is completely absurd, there are plenty of things that have physiological causes that we can't just take a pill and be healed with. Do you think cancer is just an attitude problem? How about amputees? Are they just so stupid that they don't take a pill and be healed? What a strange and completely misinformed take. I honestly feel bad for you. Whatever sequence of events led to this strange pseudo-edgelord hardass chud persona must have been tough. [1] Not all depressed people and not all manic depressives. Describing my symptoms.