12 ms·

Interesting. Usually my critique for products like this is something along the lines of "great, but how are you going to access your data from the internet?" Ty

Interesting. Usually my critique for products like this is something along the lines of "great, but how are you going to access your data from the internet?" Typically the answer to that is you need some sort of tunneling service like ngrok to get around port forwarding, CGNAT, firewalls, etc. I maintain a list of solutions here[0]. The problem with most of these services is that they're targeted at developers and aren't something the average user should have to mess with. In this case, the PiBox is being offered by KubeSail[1], a company which specializes in services like tunneling (they're already on the list mentioned above). It will be very interesting to see if they can bundle it in such a way that people don't have to worry about how the tunneling works. Extra points if they make it easy for users to buy/use their own domains. [0]: https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling [1]: https://kubesail.com/ https://kubesail.com/

rektide 5y ago
i have a systemd cron job (timer) that runs miniupnpc every couple minutes to ask the router to set up firewall rules that a box needs. for now i still manually update my home's dns records whenever there's a power outage and therefore new ip address. but i'll be building something dor dynamic dns soon enough. but a couple boxes also ssh into a vps, and forward their own ssh ports to the vps, so i can jump into them indirectly if the main door/direct ssh way isnt working. this is also an ok way to expose ports on the internet if i want them proxied, if i need rate limiting.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  Damn, that you need to do all of that ... My router (FritzBox) allows selecting a device to forward specific ports from and even supports DynDNS.
  - rektide 5y ago
    i've maintained router side tables for years. i actually prefer just having devices able to set themselves up. even if i go to a friends house with a system, it should have a good chance of configuring itself there too. that's one huge advantage. mostly though i just dont want the centealization, dont want to be thinking about configuring routers.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  I made a dumb script to handle my dynamic IP back before I knew of a better way and before I got a static IP. It checked my IP, compared it to the last check, and if different, posted the results to my private Slack channel. Then I just altered the IP on connection. It actually changed very rarely but until I learned of better ways, I liked it.
erulabs 5y ago
This is exactly the goal - a box that anyone could buy, plug-in, click a few buttons, and get an on-the-internet service (like PhotoPrism or Plex) ready to roll. Bonus if they can easily control access, invite friends, and also if it's totally open and hackable - as much a learning platform for technology as a plug-and-play box-for-media. That's the vision anyways!
- lostlogin 5y ago
  Plex seems to be circling closer and closer to a bad place in their quest to be a media company. I’d love it if they focussed on improving the UI and sharing aspects rather than pushing their media and weird default requirement for internet access. I’d happily pay more for the path I want.
  - luke2m 5y ago
    https://jellyfin.org/ https://jellyfin.org/
    - geerlingguy 5y ago
      This is what I use for my moderate sized media library, and it's great, also works with a variety of consumption apps.
  - Liquix 5y ago
    Yeah, it started around 2017 with dark patterns to try and get you to create an account on their website and has only gotten worse from there. Can you even set it up locally anymore without forking over your email address? Shame how they shot themselves in the foot like that
gonehome 5y ago
I've heard good things about tailscale which does something magical I don't quite understand to get around NAT and allow access to your box in a secure way. I know (not so technical) people who have used it successfully.
- shepherdjerred 5y ago
  I have no idea how Tailscale works, but it always does. I used to have a bastion host that I'd ssh into to access my home network. Now I just startup Tailscale and connect.
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    I just forward 51820 UDP on my router once, and use Wireguard. It always works.
    - brirec 5y ago
      And Wireguard doesn’t rely on someone’s cloud server, too! I looked into Tailscale because the hype is big, and I’m sure it’s good software… but the biggest reason I pay for a VPS is to get public IPv4 addresses I can connect to. A proxy will only add overhead and compromise privacy. Edit: specifically, Tailscale uses their own proprietary relay servers, and if you don’t want to use them you can’t use tailscale. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - vladvasiliu 5y ago
        > Edit: specifically, Tailscale uses their own proprietary relay servers, and if you don’t want to use them you can’t use tailscale. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This is incorrect [0]. You can use your own relay servers [0]. However, Tailscale only uses the relay servers as a last resort. Most of the time, the connection will be established directly between the peers. If you're able to configure port forwarding on your router as another commenter said, wireguard works well enough. You'll probably be able to also set up some form of dynamic DNS if you don't have a static IP (like no-ip or duckdns, etc). In this case, you don't need Tailscale. However, there are more and more people who aren't able to do the port-forwarding thing any more, such as those behind CG-NAT. For example, in France and, from what I hear, the UK, this seems to spread. In these cases, Tailscale's NAT traversal techniques may still work – that is, your connection will be directly between your two peers and not through their relays. Also, of note is that their relays are open source [1], and you can run your own. But if that's the case, you probably don't need Tailscale and can get away with some kind of hub-and-spoke setup. --- [0] https://tailscale.com/kb/1118/custom-derp-servers/ https://tailscale.com/kb/1118/custom-derp-servers/ [1] https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/tree/main/derp https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/tree/main/derp
sdenton4 5y ago
Well this makes it sound like it's targeted squarely at developers: "Finally, a NAS that lets you use a standard operating system that you’re used to, like Ubuntu or Raspberry Pi OS."
- erulabs 5y ago
  We're starting with technical users - if we can't get programmers to love home-hosting there isn't much hope for the average user. As we go, we're very focused on making sure people who have no idea what Debian is can make use of the product, but I'm sad to say we're not quite there yet.
  - getcrunk 5y ago
    What is the bandwidth available for the drives io?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - geerlingguy 5y ago
      There's 1 PCIe gen 2 lane, so 5 Gbps theoretical. Real world 400 MB/sec r/w, or 120 over the 1 Gbps LAN.
- aulin 5y ago
  as opposed to the usual proprietary soon-to-be-abandonware firmware... guess that's a plus for everyone, not just developers, albeit they're the probably the only ones who care about it
rlt 5y ago
Maybe I’m paranoid, but I wouldn’t want to expose my NAS directly to the internet. At most via a VPN.
- no_time 5y ago
  Nothing paranoid about some healthy caution. The synolocker fiasco proved that NASes are not as bulletproof as some imagined.
- sliken 5y ago
  Heh, I'd happily do so with ssh, assuming passwords are disabled, it's the current openssh, all other ports blocked, and only key based auth. However I wouldn't let the random vendor webstack with cloud sync anywhere near anything I care about.
whalesalad 5y ago
VPN. Easiest solution would be tailscale.
fulafel 5y ago
Tunneling is a good fallback if you don't have working v6 or v4, but i disagree potential internet connectivity problems should be a critique of internet applications like like this.
- anderspitman 5y ago
  Certainly it could still be useful without internet access, but it can't compete with Google Drive or iCloud unless you can easily access your data from anywhere and share with others.
citizenpaul 5y ago
Perhaps im just a jerk but all im seeing here is a very expensive diskless nas case that i can already buy from aliexpress for an order of magnitude cheaper. I'd be glad if you could change my mind.
- zohch 5y ago
  Would not mind a link to some examples, but I guess you are right. Though maybe total cost will be higher though I have not calculated so maybe not.
- sliken 5y ago
  I've tinkered with cheap nas cases. It's easy to end up with a case that: so thin/flimsy that it rattles, crappy plastic carriers that seem designed for 3 insert/removals before dying, terrible airflow, and/or loud. There are exceptions of course, but it's not an easy task to find a nice solution that is quiet, vibration damped (easier on spinning disks), good airflow (keep drives cool), nice mini-itx or similar motherboard (ideally with ECC), an expansion port (10G or M.2/U2 cache), etc. One I've had my eye on is the Fractal Design Node 304.
maneesh 5y ago
Love your work! I used boringproxy for over a year almost daily!

rektide 5y ago

i have a systemd cron job (timer) that runs miniupnpc every couple minutes to ask the router to set up firewall rules that a box needs. for now i still manually update my home's dns records whenever there's a power outage and therefore new ip address. but i'll be building something dor dynamic dns soon enough. but a couple boxes also ssh into a vps, and forward their own ssh ports to the vps, so i can jump into them indirectly if the main door/direct ssh way isnt working. this is also an ok way to expose ports on the internet if i want them proxied, if i need rate limiting.

solarkraft 5y ago
Damn, that you need to do all of that ... My router (FritzBox) allows selecting a device to forward specific ports from and even supports DynDNS.
- rektide 5y ago
  i've maintained router side tables for years. i actually prefer just having devices able to set themselves up. even if i go to a friends house with a system, it should have a good chance of configuring itself there too. that's one huge advantage. mostly though i just dont want the centealization, dont want to be thinking about configuring routers.
lostlogin 5y ago
I made a dumb script to handle my dynamic IP back before I knew of a better way and before I got a static IP. It checked my IP, compared it to the last check, and if different, posted the results to my private Slack channel. Then I just altered the IP on connection. It actually changed very rarely but until I learned of better ways, I liked it.

erulabs 5y ago

This is exactly the goal - a box that anyone could buy, plug-in, click a few buttons, and get an on-the-internet service (like PhotoPrism or Plex) ready to roll. Bonus if they can easily control access, invite friends, and also if it's totally open and hackable - as much a learning platform for technology as a plug-and-play box-for-media. That's the vision anyways!

lostlogin 5y ago
Plex seems to be circling closer and closer to a bad place in their quest to be a media company. I’d love it if they focussed on improving the UI and sharing aspects rather than pushing their media and weird default requirement for internet access. I’d happily pay more for the path I want.
- luke2m 5y ago
  https://jellyfin.org/ https://jellyfin.org/
  - geerlingguy 5y ago
    This is what I use for my moderate sized media library, and it's great, also works with a variety of consumption apps.
- Liquix 5y ago
  Yeah, it started around 2017 with dark patterns to try and get you to create an account on their website and has only gotten worse from there. Can you even set it up locally anymore without forking over your email address? Shame how they shot themselves in the foot like that

gonehome 5y ago

I've heard good things about tailscale which does something magical I don't quite understand to get around NAT and allow access to your box in a secure way. I know (not so technical) people who have used it successfully.

shepherdjerred 5y ago
I have no idea how Tailscale works, but it always does. I used to have a bastion host that I'd ssh into to access my home network. Now I just startup Tailscale and connect.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  I just forward 51820 UDP on my router once, and use Wireguard. It always works.
  - brirec 5y ago
    And Wireguard doesn’t rely on someone’s cloud server, too! I looked into Tailscale because the hype is big, and I’m sure it’s good software… but the biggest reason I pay for a VPS is to get public IPv4 addresses I can connect to. A proxy will only add overhead and compromise privacy. Edit: specifically, Tailscale uses their own proprietary relay servers, and if you don’t want to use them you can’t use tailscale. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      > Edit: specifically, Tailscale uses their own proprietary relay servers, and if you don’t want to use them you can’t use tailscale. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ This is incorrect [0]. You can use your own relay servers [0]. However, Tailscale only uses the relay servers as a last resort. Most of the time, the connection will be established directly between the peers. If you're able to configure port forwarding on your router as another commenter said, wireguard works well enough. You'll probably be able to also set up some form of dynamic DNS if you don't have a static IP (like no-ip or duckdns, etc). In this case, you don't need Tailscale. However, there are more and more people who aren't able to do the port-forwarding thing any more, such as those behind CG-NAT. For example, in France and, from what I hear, the UK, this seems to spread. In these cases, Tailscale's NAT traversal techniques may still work – that is, your connection will be directly between your two peers and not through their relays. Also, of note is that their relays are open source [1], and you can run your own. But if that's the case, you probably don't need Tailscale and can get away with some kind of hub-and-spoke setup. --- [0] https://tailscale.com/kb/1118/custom-derp-servers/ https://tailscale.com/kb/1118/custom-derp-servers/ [1] https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/tree/main/derp https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/tree/main/derp

sdenton4 5y ago

Well this makes it sound like it's targeted squarely at developers: "Finally, a NAS that lets you use a standard operating system that you’re used to, like Ubuntu or Raspberry Pi OS."

erulabs 5y ago
We're starting with technical users - if we can't get programmers to love home-hosting there isn't much hope for the average user. As we go, we're very focused on making sure people who have no idea what Debian is can make use of the product, but I'm sad to say we're not quite there yet.
- getcrunk 5y ago
  What is the bandwidth available for the drives io?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - geerlingguy 5y ago
    There's 1 PCIe gen 2 lane, so 5 Gbps theoretical. Real world 400 MB/sec r/w, or 120 over the 1 Gbps LAN.
aulin 5y ago
as opposed to the usual proprietary soon-to-be-abandonware firmware... guess that's a plus for everyone, not just developers, albeit they're the probably the only ones who care about it

rlt 5y ago

Maybe I’m paranoid, but I wouldn’t want to expose my NAS directly to the internet. At most via a VPN.

no_time 5y ago
Nothing paranoid about some healthy caution. The synolocker fiasco proved that NASes are not as bulletproof as some imagined.
sliken 5y ago
Heh, I'd happily do so with ssh, assuming passwords are disabled, it's the current openssh, all other ports blocked, and only key based auth. However I wouldn't let the random vendor webstack with cloud sync anywhere near anything I care about.

whalesalad 5y ago

VPN. Easiest solution would be tailscale.

fulafel 5y ago

Tunneling is a good fallback if you don't have working v6 or v4, but i disagree potential internet connectivity problems should be a critique of internet applications like like this.

anderspitman 5y ago
Certainly it could still be useful without internet access, but it can't compete with Google Drive or iCloud unless you can easily access your data from anywhere and share with others.

citizenpaul 5y ago

Perhaps im just a jerk but all im seeing here is a very expensive diskless nas case that i can already buy from aliexpress for an order of magnitude cheaper. I'd be glad if you could change my mind.

zohch 5y ago
Would not mind a link to some examples, but I guess you are right. Though maybe total cost will be higher though I have not calculated so maybe not.
sliken 5y ago
I've tinkered with cheap nas cases. It's easy to end up with a case that: so thin/flimsy that it rattles, crappy plastic carriers that seem designed for 3 insert/removals before dying, terrible airflow, and/or loud. There are exceptions of course, but it's not an easy task to find a nice solution that is quiet, vibration damped (easier on spinning disks), good airflow (keep drives cool), nice mini-itx or similar motherboard (ideally with ECC), an expansion port (10G or M.2/U2 cache), etc. One I've had my eye on is the Fractal Design Node 304.

maneesh 5y ago

Love your work! I used boringproxy for over a year almost daily!