6 ms·

Guantanamo Bay frees mistaken Karachi taxi driver after 17 years

53 points by notRobot 5y ago

short12 5y ago
At this be point wasn't holding wrongfully imprisoned people justified by "well if they didn't hate the USA before they most certainly do now"
- klyrs 5y ago
  As I recall, that was the gist of Obama's excuse to not follow through on that particular campaign promise.
solarkraft 5y ago
For German speakers (or people fine with auto-translated subtitles), here’s an interview (45 minutes) with Murat Kurnaz, who had a very similar thing happen to him: https://youtu.be/A7Oz4aO6nvA https://youtu.be/A7Oz4aO6nvA He describes how he got captured, tortured and how German diplomacy failed him.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
cool. imagine holding an american citizen at a checkpost somehwere and the CNN goes on a crusade against that country. the entitlement of "american citizens" viz a viz "non american citizens" and the apparent discrimination that is ingrained in all americans somehow manages to achieve these things. "In 2002, Ahmed was falsely identified as wanted man Hassan Ghul and sold to US personnel in Pakistan. Although they soon realised they had the wrong man, they took him to Afghanistan and tortured him in black sites for 545 days. The abuse he was subjected to is documented in the US Senate torture report." emphasis "sold to US personnel". imagine selling an american citizen. so its fine to torture a human being as long as they are not american citizens because "there are no evidence against him" and they still continue the same torture.
- refurb 5y ago
  There are lots of examples of Americans being kidnapped and tortured. Remarkably the CIA Station Chief of Lebanon was captured tortured and executed back in the 80’s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Buckley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Buckley
  - a0-prw 5y ago
    No human being should be tortured. That being said, is it not even worse that this guy was just a taxi driver and they knew they had the wrong guy. If you're CIA and complicit in mayhem around the world in general and the ME in particular, the risk of getting captured and tortured seems to me to "come with the territory". That doesn't make it right, obviously, but for God's sake the poor guy was just a random taxi driver and got tortured and imprisoned by the "leader of the free world". Probably noone will ever be held accountable either.
    - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
      my point exactly. what happened about the process of law? So school shooter who murders children in broad daylight is called just "mentally unstable" and the whole discussion is around "guns dont kill, people do" which is AFTER the fact and here we have people tortured in the name of "national security" before anything was done by these people. thought crimes much? that said, if american idea is to "torture" anyone, including known innocent people in the name of national security before they commit any crime, why have courts ? or are they for only "american citizens"?
      - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
        Yeah, western governments (US, UK, EU) like to rahrah about democracy and the rule of law, but in reality they're fucking jokers. I'm quite left, but I don't wonder that rightwing populists are gaining in popularity when the citizenry can see how hypocritical their governments are. There are dozens of examples, obviously. Like the treatment of Assange by British kangaroo courts, EU nepotism and corruption (like tax-haven-Juncker or inept van der Leyen getting top EU jobs), EU basically paying Erdogan, Libya, and building a military border to prevent refugees from reaching their shores... As Louis Brandeis said: > Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means - to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal - would bring terrible retributions.
scrubs 5y ago
American here. We screwed up big time with this kind of BS. It's wholly anti-thetical to what were supposed to be our standards. Due process and representation should have moved each prisoner to their just desserts or freedom early and often. Plus congress won't close the damn thing even though Obama (and I believe trump if not mistaken) wanted it shut.
solarkraft 5y ago
How many dozens of millions are they getting in compensation? Who’s going to jail for making it happen?

53 points by notRobot 5y ago

At this be point wasn't holding wrongfully imprisoned people justified by "well if they didn't hate the USA before they most certainly do now"

klyrs 5y ago
As I recall, that was the gist of Obama's excuse to not follow through on that particular campaign promise.

solarkraft 5y ago

For German speakers (or people fine with auto-translated subtitles), here’s an interview (45 minutes) with Murat Kurnaz, who had a very similar thing happen to him: https://youtu.be/A7Oz4aO6nvA https://youtu.be/A7Oz4aO6nvA He describes how he got captured, tortured and how German diplomacy failed him.

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

cool. imagine holding an american citizen at a checkpost somehwere and the CNN goes on a crusade against that country. the entitlement of "american citizens" viz a viz "non american citizens" and the apparent discrimination that is ingrained in all americans somehow manages to achieve these things. "In 2002, Ahmed was falsely identified as wanted man Hassan Ghul and sold to US personnel in Pakistan. Although they soon realised they had the wrong man, they took him to Afghanistan and tortured him in black sites for 545 days. The abuse he was subjected to is documented in the US Senate torture report." emphasis "sold to US personnel". imagine selling an american citizen. so its fine to torture a human being as long as they are not american citizens because "there are no evidence against him" and they still continue the same torture.

refurb 5y ago
There are lots of examples of Americans being kidnapped and tortured. Remarkably the CIA Station Chief of Lebanon was captured tortured and executed back in the 80’s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Buckley https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Buckley
- a0-prw 5y ago
  No human being should be tortured. That being said, is it not even worse that this guy was just a taxi driver and they knew they had the wrong guy. If you're CIA and complicit in mayhem around the world in general and the ME in particular, the risk of getting captured and tortured seems to me to "come with the territory". That doesn't make it right, obviously, but for God's sake the poor guy was just a random taxi driver and got tortured and imprisoned by the "leader of the free world". Probably noone will ever be held accountable either.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    my point exactly. what happened about the process of law? So school shooter who murders children in broad daylight is called just "mentally unstable" and the whole discussion is around "guns dont kill, people do" which is AFTER the fact and here we have people tortured in the name of "national security" before anything was done by these people. thought crimes much? that said, if american idea is to "torture" anyone, including known innocent people in the name of national security before they commit any crime, why have courts ? or are they for only "american citizens"?
    - bellyfullofbac 5y ago
      Yeah, western governments (US, UK, EU) like to rahrah about democracy and the rule of law, but in reality they're fucking jokers. I'm quite left, but I don't wonder that rightwing populists are gaining in popularity when the citizenry can see how hypocritical their governments are. There are dozens of examples, obviously. Like the treatment of Assange by British kangaroo courts, EU nepotism and corruption (like tax-haven-Juncker or inept van der Leyen getting top EU jobs), EU basically paying Erdogan, Libya, and building a military border to prevent refugees from reaching their shores... As Louis Brandeis said: > Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means - to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal - would bring terrible retributions.

scrubs 5y ago

American here. We screwed up big time with this kind of BS. It's wholly anti-thetical to what were supposed to be our standards. Due process and representation should have moved each prisoner to their just desserts or freedom early and often. Plus congress won't close the damn thing even though Obama (and I believe trump if not mistaken) wanted it shut.

solarkraft 5y ago

How many dozens of millions are they getting in compensation? Who’s going to jail for making it happen?