6 ms·

Rejecting the smartphone might be a start.

joe_the_user 5y ago
I don't think you can escape the use of the smart phone. But treating them as "throw-away", as not your device, etc. I think the original landlines, which were/are a few switches connected to a write on one side and some microphones on the other, were close to inherently insecure. Phones haven't ever been "your device" whereas a laptop might, maybe be rendered trustworthy.
- throwawayay02 5y ago
  How can you possibly not escape the use of a smartphone?
  - bart_spoon 5y ago
    Plenty of jobs these days essentially require one, be it for communication, authentication, or what have you.
    - hyperstar 5y ago
      Preferably, don't take those jobs. Or, if you must, tape the cameras and remove the microphone. Use a wired headset for talking and unplug it when not in use. When not on the job, turn it off and wrap it in aluminium foil.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    I recently had to file an insurance claim with my car insurer. The entire process happened through their app. They require you to send them pictures that you took using their app. One of my banks has been closing branches left and right, and if I want to use my accounts for anything other than debit purchases, I need to use the app. Some banks even charge you when you go to a branch location in person and use a teller to access your accounts. Some jobs require you to install and use apps on your phone. Last time I was a big box retailer, the floor staff had the company's app installed on their phones so they could do instant price look ups and confirm discounts on their store's inventory. Even just applying for a job requires an internet browser, and many people's only access to the internet is through their phone.
    - rangerdan 5y ago
      > They require you to send them pictures that you took using their app. Nonsense, just tell them you can't do that and will email them. Have a back bone. > I want to use my accounts for anything other than debit purchases, I need to use the app. No, you don't. Use a bank that has a normal web site. > Some jobs require you to install and use apps on your phone. Yikes ... never install work apps on a personal phone. Just don't. > Even just applying for a job requires an internet browser, and many people's only access to the internet is through their phone. So people need phones because people use phones? What nonsense.
    - asdff 5y ago
      Pretty much all those things you can do over old channels still. The app is optional. I can do everything my mobile banking website can do over the phone. The last time I filed a claim with my insurer, everything happened via back and forth emailing.
- hyperstar 5y ago
  I think there should always be physical off-switches for microphones: it should be possible to know that the thing is not listening. But smartphones also have other private information on them than what can be captured by its microphone. I don't think the smartphone is inescapable at all, and I don't think any of the conveniences it offers is worth surrendering one's privacy. But there is a tendency in businesses to ignore the fact that some potential customers do not have smartphones. I wonder if legislation against this might be possible.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > I think there should always be physical off-switches for microphones There is one smartphone with those: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5. The alternative one, Pinephone, has quite inconvenient kill switches.
wolverine876 5y ago
Many restaurants only provide menus via smartphones. Sporting events only accept electronic tickets. How can you reject it, practically?
- b112 5y ago
  I have never eaten in such a restaurant and I eat out a lot. Is this really true where you are? No menus?
  - lostmsu 5y ago
    This is a COVID trend. They still provide physical copy on request.
    - can16358p 5y ago
      This is the only thing that makes sense. What if your battery is dead? Not having access to the menu would be ridiculous.
      - wutbrodo 5y ago
        Not quite the same thing, but I had to head home early one night recently because my phone had died (which almost never happens to me) so I couldn't show vaccination-proof. I would guess that a person's phone dying while bar-hopping is much more common than dying while dining alone (since when dining with others, you can just look at their menus). You're not wrong that this fundamentally excludes those who don't have (powered-up) smartphones. But it's not like restaurants and bars had the luxury of thinking through and choosing to have these effective new smartphone requirements: they adapted to Covid for their survival, and the odd case who got unlucky with a dead phone is just collateral damage.
        b112 5y ago
        because my phone had died (which almost never happens to me) so I couldn't show vaccination-proof. I'm in Canada, and we use QR codes, signed by the government, to show and validate status. Mine is printed out, and in my pocket. No phone is required. Thus, no one needs to avoid anything, phone or not.
newbamboo 5y ago
This is the only solution, and one with very minimal downside. In fact, within a year society would be so greatly improved, we’d look back in horror at the current state of affairs and wonder how we’d all gone so mad in the first place.

I don't think you can escape the use of the smart phone. But treating them as "throw-away", as not your device, etc. I think the original landlines, which were/are a few switches connected to a write on one side and some microphones on the other, were close to inherently insecure. Phones haven't ever been "your device" whereas a laptop might, maybe be rendered trustworthy.

throwawayay02 5y ago
How can you possibly not escape the use of a smartphone?
- bart_spoon 5y ago
  Plenty of jobs these days essentially require one, be it for communication, authentication, or what have you.
  - hyperstar 5y ago
    Preferably, don't take those jobs. Or, if you must, tape the cameras and remove the microphone. Use a wired headset for talking and unplug it when not in use. When not on the job, turn it off and wrap it in aluminium foil.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  I recently had to file an insurance claim with my car insurer. The entire process happened through their app. They require you to send them pictures that you took using their app. One of my banks has been closing branches left and right, and if I want to use my accounts for anything other than debit purchases, I need to use the app. Some banks even charge you when you go to a branch location in person and use a teller to access your accounts. Some jobs require you to install and use apps on your phone. Last time I was a big box retailer, the floor staff had the company's app installed on their phones so they could do instant price look ups and confirm discounts on their store's inventory. Even just applying for a job requires an internet browser, and many people's only access to the internet is through their phone.
  - rangerdan 5y ago
    > They require you to send them pictures that you took using their app. Nonsense, just tell them you can't do that and will email them. Have a back bone. > I want to use my accounts for anything other than debit purchases, I need to use the app. No, you don't. Use a bank that has a normal web site. > Some jobs require you to install and use apps on your phone. Yikes ... never install work apps on a personal phone. Just don't. > Even just applying for a job requires an internet browser, and many people's only access to the internet is through their phone. So people need phones because people use phones? What nonsense.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Pretty much all those things you can do over old channels still. The app is optional. I can do everything my mobile banking website can do over the phone. The last time I filed a claim with my insurer, everything happened via back and forth emailing.
hyperstar 5y ago
I think there should always be physical off-switches for microphones: it should be possible to know that the thing is not listening. But smartphones also have other private information on them than what can be captured by its microphone. I don't think the smartphone is inescapable at all, and I don't think any of the conveniences it offers is worth surrendering one's privacy. But there is a tendency in businesses to ignore the fact that some potential customers do not have smartphones. I wonder if legislation against this might be possible.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > I think there should always be physical off-switches for microphones There is one smartphone with those: https://puri.sm/products/librem-5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5. The alternative one, Pinephone, has quite inconvenient kill switches.

wolverine876 5y ago

Many restaurants only provide menus via smartphones. Sporting events only accept electronic tickets. How can you reject it, practically?

b112 5y ago
I have never eaten in such a restaurant and I eat out a lot. Is this really true where you are? No menus?
- lostmsu 5y ago
  This is a COVID trend. They still provide physical copy on request.
  - can16358p 5y ago
    This is the only thing that makes sense. What if your battery is dead? Not having access to the menu would be ridiculous.
    - wutbrodo 5y ago
      Not quite the same thing, but I had to head home early one night recently because my phone had died (which almost never happens to me) so I couldn't show vaccination-proof. I would guess that a person's phone dying while bar-hopping is much more common than dying while dining alone (since when dining with others, you can just look at their menus). You're not wrong that this fundamentally excludes those who don't have (powered-up) smartphones. But it's not like restaurants and bars had the luxury of thinking through and choosing to have these effective new smartphone requirements: they adapted to Covid for their survival, and the odd case who got unlucky with a dead phone is just collateral damage.
      - b112 5y ago
        because my phone had died (which almost never happens to me) so I couldn't show vaccination-proof. I'm in Canada, and we use QR codes, signed by the government, to show and validate status. Mine is printed out, and in my pocket. No phone is required. Thus, no one needs to avoid anything, phone or not.

newbamboo 5y ago

This is the only solution, and one with very minimal downside. In fact, within a year society would be so greatly improved, we’d look back in horror at the current state of affairs and wonder how we’d all gone so mad in the first place.