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There is also one reason many here don't see: you don't have to bother with the console. Everything can be installed and run with a mouse. Don't take me wrong

There is also one reason many here don't see: you don't have to bother with the console. Everything can be installed and run with a mouse. Don't take me wrong. I understand the good sides of console programs. You can do a lot there but your average user doesn't care.

dotancohen 5y ago
What popular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
- Krasnol 5y ago
  The fact that you had to narrow it down to some arbitrary "popular" category to not touch the topic speaks for itself.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    Alright then, what unpopular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
    - addicted 5y ago
      I’m also struggling to understand why it would be difficult to create a mouse driven GUI for any CLI based app. In fact, there are apps that can do that automatically. Admittedly these apps tend to create not very good UIs, but the point is that it’s not hard at all.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- Silhouette 5y ago
  Not long ago I upgraded an Ubuntu system to 21.04. It took me more than half an hour of looking around to realise that the "Ubuntu Software" screen everyone was referring to was a separate application that wasn't installed by default. Then I could look up the CLI command to install it via apt. That sort of thing would be a small (though very irritating) waste of time for many of us on HN but it could have been a showstopper for other potential Ubuntu users who aren't technically inclined and just want a system that works. Unfortunately in my experience that still sums up desktop Linux in a nutshell. You probably can fix just about anything if you know what you're doing. If you do, you get the benefits that come with running Linux, including avoiding the kind of controlling behaviours we see from Microsoft and Apple in their desktop platforms these days. But the reality is that most normal people won't know what they're doing to that degree and so can't fix the problems. So continues the cycle where "normal people" don't use Linux and so there is no big market for commercial applications and so most commercial applications don't run on Linux and so "normal people" don't use Linux.
  - dotancohen 5y ago
    The "Ubuntu Software" screen should be installed by default. > Ubuntu Software Center is a one-stop shop for installing and removing software on your computer. > It is included in Ubuntu 9.10 and later. > - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuSoftwareCenter
    - Silhouette 5y ago
      The "Ubuntu Software" screen should be installed by default. "Should" being the operative word unfortunately. It clearly wasn't installed by default for this machine that had been upgraded through earlier versions (starting around 16 I think so well after 9.10), nor was there any obvious indication to the user that it was missing and available to be added. There were some other oddities after that upgrade, for example Firefox no longer appearing for one-click launching from the default UI layout when it had before, so the lack of Ubuntu Software (and, apparently, its underlying apt package) wasn't the only anomaly. It just wasn't a polished experience that a non-technical user should have to deal with.
      - dotancohen 5y ago
        Ah, the "should-have-but-didn't" class of frustrations! Often undocumented, often not even believed when asking for help online. I understand your frustration!
  - yarosv 5y ago
    Is synaptic not a thing anymore? I haven't used linux in a number of years.
    - Silhouette 5y ago
      Synaptic still works fine but it also needs explicitly installing and it is aimed at more technical "power users" and so solves a slightly different problem.
jenscow 5y ago
Honestly, the only examples I can think of which support your claim are development related tools/libraries.
Dylan16807 5y ago
I've definitely had to use a windows console on occasion, and regedit which is at a similar level or worse.

dotancohen 5y ago

What popular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?

Krasnol 5y ago
The fact that you had to narrow it down to some arbitrary "popular" category to not touch the topic speaks for itself.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Alright then, what unpopular end-user software cannot be installed and run with a mouse in e.g. Ubuntu?
  - addicted 5y ago
    I’m also struggling to understand why it would be difficult to create a mouse driven GUI for any CLI based app. In fact, there are apps that can do that automatically. Admittedly these apps tend to create not very good UIs, but the point is that it’s not hard at all.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
Silhouette 5y ago
Not long ago I upgraded an Ubuntu system to 21.04. It took me more than half an hour of looking around to realise that the "Ubuntu Software" screen everyone was referring to was a separate application that wasn't installed by default. Then I could look up the CLI command to install it via apt. That sort of thing would be a small (though very irritating) waste of time for many of us on HN but it could have been a showstopper for other potential Ubuntu users who aren't technically inclined and just want a system that works. Unfortunately in my experience that still sums up desktop Linux in a nutshell. You probably can fix just about anything if you know what you're doing. If you do, you get the benefits that come with running Linux, including avoiding the kind of controlling behaviours we see from Microsoft and Apple in their desktop platforms these days. But the reality is that most normal people won't know what they're doing to that degree and so can't fix the problems. So continues the cycle where "normal people" don't use Linux and so there is no big market for commercial applications and so most commercial applications don't run on Linux and so "normal people" don't use Linux.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  The "Ubuntu Software" screen should be installed by default. > Ubuntu Software Center is a one-stop shop for installing and removing software on your computer. > It is included in Ubuntu 9.10 and later. > - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuSoftwareCenter
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    The "Ubuntu Software" screen should be installed by default. "Should" being the operative word unfortunately. It clearly wasn't installed by default for this machine that had been upgraded through earlier versions (starting around 16 I think so well after 9.10), nor was there any obvious indication to the user that it was missing and available to be added. There were some other oddities after that upgrade, for example Firefox no longer appearing for one-click launching from the default UI layout when it had before, so the lack of Ubuntu Software (and, apparently, its underlying apt package) wasn't the only anomaly. It just wasn't a polished experience that a non-technical user should have to deal with.
    - dotancohen 5y ago
      Ah, the "should-have-but-didn't" class of frustrations! Often undocumented, often not even believed when asking for help online. I understand your frustration!
- yarosv 5y ago
  Is synaptic not a thing anymore? I haven't used linux in a number of years.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    Synaptic still works fine but it also needs explicitly installing and it is aimed at more technical "power users" and so solves a slightly different problem.

jenscow 5y ago

Honestly, the only examples I can think of which support your claim are development related tools/libraries.

Dylan16807 5y ago

I've definitely had to use a windows console on occasion, and regedit which is at a similar level or worse.