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Is this happening to people who have been vaccinated, or unvaccinated? Or both?
by b3nji 5y ago
Is this happening to people who have been vaccinated, or unvaccinated? Or both?
- prox 5y agoVaccination usually means less intense disease, and less issues. 95% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated people (clinical and ICU)
- the-dude 5y agoSources please.
- junon 5y agoAnecdotally, my home city's hospitals are so full that they're turning away people from the ER who have a low chance of survival, like heart attack victims. It's gotten so bad that the military was called in to restore peace. The doctors there were on a news segment, completely burnt out and in tears, saying that 0% of their COVID patients are vaccinated and they're overrun. So I believe this metric.
- abrichr 5y agoWhich town?
- junon 5y agoI don't like to say online but it's in NW USA.
- johnchristopher 5y agoWhat the, I was thinking you would say Romania, I just read vaccination is only 30% over there and they are planning to move patients to neighboring countries.
- orwin 5y agoGood luck for them, this is absolutely terrible for your doctors. Hope they get help from neighbors with their kids and groceries.
- junon 5y agoBiggest thing is they're basically out of masks, gloves, etc. and are sleeping at the hospital at this point. The hospitals won't pay to get them better break rooms and until recently didn't even have a great place to sleep.
- ebanana 5y agoall throughout the pandemic i visited with nurses, emts and have even been in many hospitals here in seattle and surrounding areas. you know, ground zero or first reported spot.. the hospitals were empty, still are and they were laying people off right and left. but yeah i guess i kept missing the rush or was at the wrong hospitals. it was strange
- hnhg 5y agoWhy and how were you at so many hospitals? Providing more context could explain what you experienced.
- wesleywt 5y agoDuring an infection disease emergency you don't want random people at a hospital.
- heavyset_go 5y agoHospitals aren't giant ICUs.
- dendriti 5y agoIn a large teaching hospital where I did some consulting work, a plurality of people at the hospital site were visitors (followed by staff, then patients). It is not surprising that hospitals feel empty when you remove most of the people in them.
- ebanana 5y agothats true, i just kept meeting personal who told me otherwise, they weren't conspiracy theorist either, this was before all that started. i actually dated one nurse for a bit she was super bored at work half the time. not saying thats a bad thing, i just would watch tv, hear one thing and then experience something entirely different but you've been around it and saw something different so i just might have been there during weird times or something idk
- redis_mlc 5y agoThis matches SF/Bay Area data. The official ICU usage was 10% - 15% occupied for corona cases for 2020, with a spike during delta. The reason doctors and nurses were laid off from hospitals nationwide is that elective surgeries were post-poned during the pandemic. The reason we're seeing disconnects between reality and the data are: 1) CDC found that infected population was 5x more than initially estimated 2) Fauci lied on a daily basis. The Stanford epidemiologists were suppressed (their advice paper has been signed by over 60,000 doctors.) Nobody can explain Fauci's behavior yet, though the NIH just published a document contradicting his Senate testimony on GoF research - he lied to Dr. Rand Paul repeatedly during a Congress commission, and refused oversight while spending one of the largest US government budgets. It was surreal to watch.
- bserge 5y agoI've been told to quarantine because I had COVID symptoms. From the vaccine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- solarengineer 5y agoFrom which vaccine? There are a number of vaccines, and it is expected for the body to "fall ill" a bit since the anti-bodies are being built. This is usually the case with all vaccines in general. I was an infact when I had received the various mandatory vaccines in India, but I recall taking the yellow fever vaccine when I was 32 and I had five days of fever Similarly, I had a fever + 4 days of 20 hours of sleep after receiving the second Pfizer-Biontech dose.
- op00to 5y agoHow do you know they’re from the vaccine?
- cnlevy 5y agoHe can't be sure of it, but it's the way it works, so its expected. Also, 2nd dose usually causes a stronger reaction from the body (you get the symptoms without the risks). See https://xkcd.com/2425 https://xkcd.com/2425
- ubercow13 5y agoMakes sense. The vaccine can cause those symptoms, but they could also be due to you catching COVID just before receiving the vaccine.
- Beldin 5y agoWhy do the vaccinated accept this? Honest question, because I imagined the breaking point for vaccinated folks to be before there's literally zero space for their medical emergencies due to folks who made a different choice. I mean, you don't want anyone left behind. But if you're forced to leave someone behind, the question becomes "who?". If you have one emergency bed and in comes a drunk driver from an accident, shortly followed by the pregnant woman he ran over, I'm not a big fan of "first come, first served". If and when doctors are forced into heinous choices, I'd think such considerations should play a role - for society allocating scarce resources, at the very least.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoI agree, so long as we’re not expecting doctors to do triage, which I believe they generally don’t. Triage is generally don’t by specially trained nurses, as I understand it.
- rbanffy 5y agoCan we trust a nurse who refuses to be vaccinated to do the Right Thing at this moment?
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y agoI meant “generally done by”
- juanani 5y agoCant we just kill off the non vaccinated already? Hrmph
- 3np 5y agoIANAD and don't have a great source for this, but I've both heard and read about some variety of "professional code" or "best practices" where MDs are expected to leave their personal convictions aside when deciding and prioritizing who gets what care. I may personally agree with the exact situation you describe, but relying on "common sense" breaks fast at scale. If the doctor(s) making the call are devout adherents of some religious sect, would you prefer that they prioritize the drunken driver above the pregnant woman who needs an abortion of the child that was conceived out of bedlock? Or denying care to the heroin addict ODing? IMO, completely removing moral judgment from the medical evaluation process is a net positive. This doesn't have to mean "first come, first serve", and I assume it doesn't in most places.
- 5560675260 5y agoIs this actually true? Would you care to name the city? Sorry for being sceptical, but I've seen similar claims propagated on twitter "hospital so full, that gunshot victims are turned away". It was untrue both on accounts of being full and there being any gunshot victims.
- jleyank 5y agoGoogle “COVID triage”. Several us states and Canadian provinces have airlifted COVID cases to different places that have open beds. Elective surgery was on hold, and even procedures involving nursing participation were not occurring. Fortunately the current wave seems to be stabilizing at least here in Canada.
- junon 5y agohttps://youtu.be/TZICprwPNbI https://youtu.be/TZICprwPNbI
- 34679 5y agoWhat steps have your local hospitals taken to increase capacity since the pandemic began nearly two years ago? Our for-profit healthcare system is tuned to extract and retain as much wealth as possible, not provide as much care as possible. Any unused capacity goes against that goal.
- short12 5y agoConsidering many hospitals seem to be in a perpetual construction mode what else can they do? You can only build and more importantly staff new buildings so quickly and two years isn't going to cut it for that
- 34679 5y ago"A construction expert broke down how China built an emergency hospital to treat Wuhan coronavirus patients in just 10 days" https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-managed-build-entirely-new-hospital-in-10-days-2020-2?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-managed-build-enti...
- fakedang 5y agoPast tense or present tense? It's unbelievable for me that at this point folks in North America remain unvaccinated.
- phreeza 5y agoFirst hit on google I got says: > During April 4–July 17, a total of 569,142 (92%) COVID-19 cases, 34,972 (92%) hospitalizations, and 6,132 (91%) COVID-19–associated deaths were reported among persons not fully vaccinated, In the same period > Full vaccination coverage increased from 19% to 54% https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm
- the-dude 5y agoIn NL, a respected newspaper ( Trouw ) claims 25% of hospitalized patients has been vaccinated : https://www.trouw.nl/zorg/wie-zijn-de-gevaccineerden-die-toch-met-covid-in-het-ziekenhuis-belanden~b69d250a/ https://www.trouw.nl/zorg/wie-zijn-de-gevaccineerden-die-toc... Dutch obviously.
- beebmam 5y agoThat rate is going to vary widely as more people get vaccinated. In a country with 100% of its citizens vaccinated, 100% of those hospitalized will be vaccinated. And likewise for 0%/0%. So keep we must always be looking at the whole picture. Without a doubt, most of the approved COVID-19 vaccines are extremely effective at preventing hospitalization/death due to SARS-CoV-2 infections, this has been shown time and time again across the world.
- the-dude 5y ago> In a country with 100% of its citizens vaccinated, 100% of those hospitalized will be vaccinated. And likewise for 0%/0%. So keep we must always be looking at the whole picture. Of course, that is why I was asking.
- masklinn 5y agoFor reference, according to "our world in data"'s number the netherlands are 74% one-dose and 67% fully vaccinated. The US are at 66.6 and 57.6, but there are huge disparities between states, while vermont is at 70,8% full vax WV is at 41.
- masklinn 5y agoAdditionally to the other answers you got, nursing subreddits are fully of testimonies on that subject.
- schleck8 5y agoAlmost all hospitalized patients (90% +) in Germany are unvaccinated. https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen/corona-krankenhaus-infiziert-geimpft-ungeimpft-100.html https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen/corona-krankenhaus-in... https://klinikum-darmstadt.de/aktuelles-news/ungeimpfte-corona-patientinnen-auf-der- https://klinikum-darmstadt.de/aktuelles-news/ungeimpfte-coro... https://www.dkgev.de/dkg/presse/details/mehr-als-90-prozent-der-intensivpatienten-ungeimpft-krankenhaeuser-unterstuetzen-impfkampagne-der-bundesregierung/ https://www.dkgev.de/dkg/presse/details/mehr-als-90-prozent-... https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/corona-fast-nur-ungeimpfte-auf-intensivstationen-in-muenchen,SkJCX9pintensivstation https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/corona-fast-nur-ungeimp...
- distances 5y agoSecond and fourth links are broken.
- mkl 5y agoSecond: https://klinikum-darmstadt.de/aktuelles-news/ungeimpfte-corona-patientinnen-auf-der-intensivstation https://klinikum-darmstadt.de/aktuelles-news/ungeimpfte-coro... Fourth: https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/corona-fast-nur-ungeimpfte-auf-intensivstationen-in-muenchen,SkJCX9p https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/corona-fast-nur-ungeimp...
- johnchristopher 5y agoWhat are they counting ? How many among patients hospitalized for covid in ICU and not-ICU are vaccinated ?
- Scharkenberg 5y agoBased on that first link, it's actually 99.1% (unvaccinated or not fully vaccinated) for the state of Saxony.
- Beldin 5y agoIn .nl it is more like 75% of admissions are non-vaccinated, and slightly higher for intensive care.
- aqme28 5y agoAnd the goal of a good vaccination rollout is for 0% of admissions to be non-vaccinated. It seems like NL is doing well.
- pjc50 5y agoThe more successful the rollout, the more the ratio goes up - this is counterintuitive, but happens because the number of unvaccinated people around that could possibly catch it in the first place becomes comparatively tiny.
- aqme28 5y agoI think we might be getting our negatives confused. A perfectly successful rollout sees 100% of people vaccinated, so 100% of admissions are vaccinated, so 0% of admissions are non-vaccinated.
- xwdv 5y agoSo basically you're saying that wherever hospital admissions are 95% unvaccinated people the vaccine rollout hasn't worked.
- AnonymousPlanet 5y agoFrom "A => B" does not follow "(not A) => (not B)" edit: swapped A and B by mistake, see comment below
- TrianguloY 5y agoHmm, logically speaking, yes, yes it does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_(logic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposition_(logic)
- __m 5y agoAt least to people who die from Covid. The article mentions that they would need to take blood samples every 10 minutes for a week, to find out.
- nprateem 5y agoi know know a few people who were vaccinated who've since caught it so probably both
- orra 5y agoLest we despair too much, it's important to remember that vaccination reduces the severity, even if you end up infected. I remember at the start of the year, when the vaccines first came out. A doctor shared some lung X-rays of infected, presumably hospitalised, patients. The vaccinated ones were far healthier.
- the-dude 5y agoLuckily, most people are persuaded easily.
- Anunayj 5y agoWell atleast antivaxxers have nothing to lose. Jokes aside, the study seems more like a Coronavirus can cause long term damage to parts of brain. Vaccinated people would likely end up with less likelyhood of this happening (by a big factor) compared to unvaccinated. Nevertheless this does not seem to be a big deal that you should worry about.
- zoomablemind 5y ago> Is this happening to people who have been vaccinated, or unvaccinated? Or both? This seems to be related to the severe cases of the infection. However it's not certain in milder cases, that is it may still be the case. Also the neural damage may be reversible (observed for hamsters). Obviously, the key here is to survive it first. Vaccination, when effective, is supposed to reduce the chance of a severe case of the infection.