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Microsoft promising `dotnet watch` for a while and then dropping that certainly doesn't help with the already pretty damaged view of Microsoft not caring about

Microsoft promising `dotnet watch` for a while and then dropping that certainly doesn't help with the already pretty damaged view of Microsoft not caring about open source developers. Here is the gist of the situation from Microsoft's point of view: > Throughout the last year we’ve been working to enable the best possible Hot Reload experience in Visual Studio 2022 and .NET 6. Part of our goal was to also explore making this feature available to customers through a variety of mechanisms such as bringing the full power of Hot Reload to as many .NET and C++ developers as possible when running through Visual Studio 2022 debugger, supporting Hot Reload when running .NET 6 apps without the debugger, and the very basic Hot Reload support we added to the .NET SDK tools through dotnet watch. > As we reflect on what was accomplished, and what is still in front of us, the backlog continues to grow. This includes many high value scenarios that will benefit the broadest number of developers, including focus areas such as .NET MAUI, Blazor, adding support more types of edits, more optimized experience when working with XAML apps, and much more. > With these considerations, we’ve decided that starting with the upcoming .NET 6 GA release, we will enable Hot Reload functionality only through Visual Studio 2022 so we can focus on providing the best experiences to the most users. We’ll also continue to pursue adding Hot Reload to Visual Studio for Mac in a future release. So, first they wanted "bringing the full power of Hot Reload to as many .NET and C++ developers as possible" but now they shifted to "focus on providing the best experiences to the most users". Best part of this whole thing is the pull request which was opened (https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22217 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22217) but " locked and limited conversation to collaborators" straight after opening it as Microsoft anticipated the backlash but still went ahead with the change. Seems they still have a lot to learn before they can indeed be trusted.

twodave 5y ago
I didn't read that as, "Our focus is changing from A to B," so much as, "We originally hoped to ship A + B, but A ended up being more work than we expected. B is achievable and impacts more developers, so we're focusing on that first".
- pionar 5y ago
  The thing you're missing is that A worked great, was already finished, in a release candidate, then removed.
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  This would make sense if they literally weren't removing a functioning implementation of A in the process.
5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
Ugh. I've been using dotnet core on Linux since it was introduced. While it mostly works fine, I always had the feeling that Linux (and mac probably also) is a second class citizen. They care about Linux compatibility inasmuch as it allows you to build the application on a Linux-powered CI server and deploy to another Linux server. Developing outside of Windows? most of their tools are not available or have a greatly diminished feature set (for example, you can take a memory dump of a running dotnet application, but can't really inspect it without a Windows VM). If not for JetBrains Rider, dotnet development on Linux would be close to impossible IMHO. When looking for my next gig I'll probably be switching to something else.
- copperx 5y ago
  Is Jetbrains Rider acceptable for .NET work under Linux, or do you miss Visual Studio proper?
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    I actually preferred Rider even before fully moving my .NET work to Linux. If you have any experience with IDEA, you'll feel right at home (they are very similar and can be operated with pretty much the exact same shortcuts).
  - Ristovski 5y ago
    I haven't had much experience with .NET on Visual Studio, but I would say that Jetbrains Rider is probably the best thing you can get for .NET work on Linux. As a matter of fact, they implemented their own hot-reload functionality themselves [0][1]. [0] - https://twitter.com/JetBrainsRider/status/1451487931466649610 https://twitter.com/JetBrainsRider/status/145148793146664961... [1] - https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/
  - LandR 5y ago
    Even on windows I prefer rider. Less resource intensive,faster and crashes less for me.
  - 5y ago
maxekman 5y ago
Worth to mention the huge “demonstration” using LGTMs in the revert PR: https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22262 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22262
- maxekman 5y ago
  And it was eventually merged!

twodave 5y ago

I didn't read that as, "Our focus is changing from A to B," so much as, "We originally hoped to ship A + B, but A ended up being more work than we expected. B is achievable and impacts more developers, so we're focusing on that first".

pionar 5y ago
The thing you're missing is that A worked great, was already finished, in a release candidate, then removed.
d3nj4l 5y ago
This would make sense if they literally weren't removing a functioning implementation of A in the process.

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago

Ugh. I've been using dotnet core on Linux since it was introduced. While it mostly works fine, I always had the feeling that Linux (and mac probably also) is a second class citizen. They care about Linux compatibility inasmuch as it allows you to build the application on a Linux-powered CI server and deploy to another Linux server. Developing outside of Windows? most of their tools are not available or have a greatly diminished feature set (for example, you can take a memory dump of a running dotnet application, but can't really inspect it without a Windows VM). If not for JetBrains Rider, dotnet development on Linux would be close to impossible IMHO. When looking for my next gig I'll probably be switching to something else.

copperx 5y ago
Is Jetbrains Rider acceptable for .NET work under Linux, or do you miss Visual Studio proper?
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  I actually preferred Rider even before fully moving my .NET work to Linux. If you have any experience with IDEA, you'll feel right at home (they are very similar and can be operated with pretty much the exact same shortcuts).
- Ristovski 5y ago
  I haven't had much experience with .NET on Visual Studio, but I would say that Jetbrains Rider is probably the best thing you can get for .NET work on Linux. As a matter of fact, they implemented their own hot-reload functionality themselves [0][1]. [0] - https://twitter.com/JetBrainsRider/status/1451487931466649610 https://twitter.com/JetBrainsRider/status/145148793146664961... [1] - https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/ https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/nextversion/
- LandR 5y ago
  Even on windows I prefer rider. Less resource intensive,faster and crashes less for me.
- 5y ago

maxekman 5y ago

Worth to mention the huge “demonstration” using LGTMs in the revert PR: https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22262 https://github.com/dotnet/sdk/pull/22262

maxekman 5y ago
And it was eventually merged!