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The idea that products at large tech companies are going to be lead by engineers who by and large do not talk to people or understand the cross functional relat
by nostrebored 5y ago
The idea that products at large tech companies are going to be lead by engineers who by and large do not talk to people or understand the cross functional relationships and strategies is absurd.
This isn't a future engineers want either -- I hear complaints about meetings from nearly every engineer I know. The idea that you should have low level knowledge of the system you're working on and high level knowledge of all the cross functional team's responsibilities along with the responsibility for cultivating those relationships is ridiculous.
People say this without having any idea what PMs do.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Jensson 5y ago> lead by engineers who by and large do not talk to people Do you think the engineer who leads a 1000 man org is not talking to people? I talked to the engineer leading our 500 man org, he talked to a lot of people and wanted their input and tried to understand the whole to make decisions. He had technical expertise so he could talk to low level engineers as well, but also to business people etc.
- nostrebored 5y agoYes -- within engineering typically! That is a the role of a PE/Staff Eng.
- Jensson 5y agoRight, and in an engineering lead organization the PM etc are subordinate to engineers. Their job is to research the market and present the results to engineers so engineers can better understand what to build. This is opposite to non-engineers leading and hiring engineers to build the product they want. Ultimately the end result is the same, its just creates a different perspective. So it is easy to evaluate companies like this. Did technical people hire business people to do those tasks for them? Or did business people hire technical people to create a product for them? The first is engineering lead, the second is the standard enterprise.
- nostrebored 5y agoI have never seen a company operate at scale the way you're suggesting. Making business decisions is not engineering core competency. The most common reporting line I've seen (working at tech companies that you would know and recognize immediately) is director -> { sdm, pm-t } where the director is typically promoted from one of those roles. There is an insulation layer between product and engineering, and as levels progress the line between pm-t and sdm blurs significantly.
- rahimiali 5y agoThe engineer you describe sounds like an ex-engineer. That engineer sounds a manager.
- Jensson 5y agoBecoming a manager doesn't mean that you no longer are an engineer. That is what engineer lead means, engineers leads the organization rather than people with no technical skills. They no longer code, but they still take part in technical discussions, so being an engineer is absolutely a part of their job.
- ricardobeat 5y ago> who by and large do not talk to people or understand the cross functional relationships and strategies The idea that (good) engineers are somehow not able to understand cross-functional relationships, business strategies, or don’t know what PMs do, is absurd. You’re digging your own grave there.
- wly_cdgr 5y agoI don't often downvote, but when I do, it's dumb shit like this