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At this point, I find it unfathomable that Congress doesn't seem to have even noticed that the tech industry is imploding on itself with the ridiculousness of i

At this point, I find it unfathomable that Congress doesn't seem to have even noticed that the tech industry is imploding on itself with the ridiculousness of it all. Yes, they have lots of fish to fry right now, but if they can spend time arguing about incandescent light bulbs [1], surely there must be some time on the legislature to sort this mess out? The whole thing has turned from skirmish into full-on war in less than a couple of years. I can't imagine how much worse it's going to get. [1] http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58964.html http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58964.html

pnathan 15y ago
It'd be nice if Congress didn't stick its nose into the patent business until the dust clears and the best way forward is obvious to all. Given their recent history, it'd just turn into a fat-fingered partisan fight otherwise. :-/
- barista 15y ago
  More than congress its Google who needs to realize that all its partner device makers are spending expensive resources on lawsuits rather than focusing on making cool android phones and its all because of some missteps that Google took to not properly license their OS. Why doesn't Google take responsibility of all these lawsuits? Afterall HTC, Samsung, LG and all other device makers are having to cough up money because they adopted android. Google should lead the charge here and not leave it to its partners to fight it out.
  - matwood 15y ago
    I think Google is leading the charge when it can with respect to Android the software. Many of the patents that Apple is going after other players with have to do with 'look and feel' of the hardware. In those cases I'm not sure Google has the standing to step in since they are not the ones who created the hardware.
    - barista 15y ago
      Really? Here's a breakdown of all the patents that Apple sued HTC for http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-bre... Which of these you say are related to hardware look and feel?
      - matwood 15y ago
        That's only HTC. Apple is also going after the Samsung tablet, which runs Android, using look and feel.
  - recoiledsnake 15y ago
    Why should Google lead the charge when HTC, Samsung pay zero zip nil dollars to license Android? It's they that are making buckets of money from selling Android phones, see the financials. Why is Google supposed to feel sorry for them? Google now has Motorola additionally to worry about. If they want patent indemnity, let them go to Microsoft, which provides patent indemnification to WP7 in exchange of $15 or so of licensing fees. (Same with desktop Windows vs. Linux).
    - barista 15y ago
      Google here comes up looking dishonest because it is the one that lured the so called "partners" into adopting androind claiming that it was free and now they are left to pick the tabs when apple and microsoft came after them. Of course going with Microsoft is an option but all these partners have been there done that. So they know better. :)
      - cooldeal 15y ago
        >Google here comes up looking dishonest because it is the one that lured the so called "partners" into adopting androind claiming that it was free and now they are left to pick the tabs when apple and microsoft came after them I don't see anything dishonest about it. It was given away for free after all and the OEMs software usually sucks as a universal rule. They leveraged the Android marketplace and ecosystem, Maps etc. >Of course going with Microsoft is an option but all these partners have been there done that. So they know better. :) I don't know what that snark means, but the meme keeps getting repeated. OEMs have been making rich profits all along selling PCs (and from crippling them with useless software that makes them even more money, causing people to blame Windows for their faults). It's not as if Microsoft bought Dell and then clobbered the other OEMs(like Google seems to be in real danger of doing with Motorola).
        barista 15y ago
        Re. the snark: the OEMs went with microsoft but were disappointed because microsoft had a lousy OS especially as compared to iOS. Microsoft needs to do some work to gain their confidence back. WP7 looks much more competitive though. I have Focus. Love it.
  - barista 15y ago
    Wow! So many downvotes and not even a single convincing argument against? Gotta love HN.
Bud 15y ago
If you're going to raise irrelevant political issues like lightbulbs, at least place the blame where it belongs, which is not on "Congress" generally, but on a few Texas House Republicans (Jo Barton in particular), who are idiotically attacking the idea of having standards to increase energy efficiency. Placing the blame on Congress generally spreads the incorrect belief that all legislators and both parties are responsible for criminally stupid stuff like this. They're not.
- steins 15y ago
  They are all responsible for placing the idiotic ban on incandescent bulbs to begin with. The federal govt has no business legislating the everyday minutiae of our lives.
  - Bud 15y ago
    You are sadly misinformed; apparently taken in by Tea Party propaganda. There is no "ban" on incandescent bulbs, and never was. The proposed standards, which were bipartisan, were intended to increase the efficiency of incandescents over time.
    - nitrogen 15y ago
      If there is a physical limitation to the amount of light that can be produced by a light bulb that uses black body emission to generate light, then a standard of efficiency that exceeds that physical limitation is an effective ban on generating light via black body emission. That's the way Congress loves to roll: they won't explicitly ban something they don't like (so they can save face with their constituents), but they'll do everything they can to make it untenable.
    - andrewflnr 15y ago
      In California there is. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/24/california-incandescent-l_n_813093.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/24/california-incandes...
- dantheman 15y ago
lallysingh 15y ago
I'd like to point out that congress, as a whole, is a set of useless jackasses. I wouldn't hold my breath for them to do anything useful, about anything, ever.
- billswift 15y ago
  Would that they were just useless. If they get involved, they will probably make the problem worse - after all, where do you think all the copyright extensions and the DMCA that have made the current copyright mess came from?
  - daeken 15y ago
    Warning: This is a huge tangent. I've been speaking out against the DMCA for the better part of a decade now (pretty hard not to if you're a reverse-engineer with a sweet tooth for DRM), but for once I'm going to speak in its defense. There are many, many things in the DMCA that I disagree with, but it also has huge benefits and is responsible for making possible many sites you use every day, such as Youtube. The safe harbor exemptions in the DMCA make it possible for a service provider to host user content without worrying about being crushed under copyright claims; if you deal with DMCA takedowns when they come in, you're A-OK. Likewise, the DMCA made clear many elements of fair-use around reverse-engineering, but we don't ever hear about this because the same clauses also make many other things illegal. The DMCA is really a mixed bag. I'd love to see most of it go away, as it's personally impacted me on many occasions, but it also has good -- essential, many would say -- parts.
barista 15y ago
If the industry waits for congress to sort it out it will be left waiting for years. Even the critical issues such as debt ceiling were down to the wire. Its the problem that the industry has to figure out within itself.
roc 15y ago
How or why would Congress notice, let alone come to the conclusion that anything is "imploding" ? From a non-techy perspective, nothing's really happening. Barring any Samsung Galaxy fans in Europe who saw the Tab delayed a few weeks. The practical impact of these sorts of things isn't immediate or obvious at all. And from the perspective of an IP professional, or someone who regularly follows IP happenings, nothing notably new is happening. These lawsuits have been lobbed back and forth from tech companies in hot industry segments for decades now. It heats up in highly competitive markets, particularly those enjoying rapid innovation simply because the IP concerns aren't well settled. Consider the earlier days of the web or the biopharma industry not so long ago. There was no shortage of IP gamesmanship then. The only thing particularly new here, is the level of coverage the tech press is giving the issue. Not least of all because "Apple", "Google" and "patent" are some of the most effective traffic generating keywords. None of this is to say the state of affairs is good, or healthy. I'm just saying that if you're not a tech enthusiast with little context for IP actions, there's really no reason you'd see the current smartphone situation as being particularly new, different or dangerous.
spodek 15y ago
Maybe the U.S. Congress sees law as one of the U.S. strong points and is using litigation as a way of bringing money into the U.S. Look at how much Taiwanese money will be spent on U.S. lawyers. Yeah, Apple has to spend money too, but it's not leaving the country. HTC's money is new money to the country. Joking aside, it would be a stupid and counterproductive policy, but probably better than what's happening. At least it would be a plan instead of a slow decline.
- marshray 15y ago
  Right, why would Congress see any problem here? They're all lawyers, and it's the lawyers who are the real winners under the current policy.
jpdoctor 15y ago
> ... I find it unfathomable that Congress doesn't seem to have even noticed that the tech industry is imploding on itself with the ridiculousness of it all. You find it unfathomable that Congress, a body largely composed of lawyers, is not reacting to one of the greatest stimulus packages for lawyers? I would find it unfathomable if they changed the status quo.
- mvzink 15y ago
  Indeed. That's what bothers me about the cries for patent reform: you are asking lawyers to let tech companies fire huge swaths of other lawyers. However, maybe the patent wars (like this HTC v. Apple one) will climb to such heights of absurdity that the economy actually will be affected. Then Congress (or someone) might have to take notice.
r00fus 15y ago
Considering who owns Congress through campaign donations and given the "nature" of the tech industry to disrupt other industries, I can't imagine that there is any sympathy for the tech industry's problems on capitol hill.

pnathan 15y ago

It'd be nice if Congress didn't stick its nose into the patent business until the dust clears and the best way forward is obvious to all. Given their recent history, it'd just turn into a fat-fingered partisan fight otherwise. :-/

barista 15y ago
More than congress its Google who needs to realize that all its partner device makers are spending expensive resources on lawsuits rather than focusing on making cool android phones and its all because of some missteps that Google took to not properly license their OS. Why doesn't Google take responsibility of all these lawsuits? Afterall HTC, Samsung, LG and all other device makers are having to cough up money because they adopted android. Google should lead the charge here and not leave it to its partners to fight it out.
- matwood 15y ago
  I think Google is leading the charge when it can with respect to Android the software. Many of the patents that Apple is going after other players with have to do with 'look and feel' of the hardware. In those cases I'm not sure Google has the standing to step in since they are not the ones who created the hardware.
  - barista 15y ago
    Really? Here's a breakdown of all the patents that Apple sued HTC for http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-bre... Which of these you say are related to hardware look and feel?
    - matwood 15y ago
      That's only HTC. Apple is also going after the Samsung tablet, which runs Android, using look and feel.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  Why should Google lead the charge when HTC, Samsung pay zero zip nil dollars to license Android? It's they that are making buckets of money from selling Android phones, see the financials. Why is Google supposed to feel sorry for them? Google now has Motorola additionally to worry about. If they want patent indemnity, let them go to Microsoft, which provides patent indemnification to WP7 in exchange of $15 or so of licensing fees. (Same with desktop Windows vs. Linux).
  - barista 15y ago
    Google here comes up looking dishonest because it is the one that lured the so called "partners" into adopting androind claiming that it was free and now they are left to pick the tabs when apple and microsoft came after them. Of course going with Microsoft is an option but all these partners have been there done that. So they know better. :)
    - cooldeal 15y ago
      >Google here comes up looking dishonest because it is the one that lured the so called "partners" into adopting androind claiming that it was free and now they are left to pick the tabs when apple and microsoft came after them I don't see anything dishonest about it. It was given away for free after all and the OEMs software usually sucks as a universal rule. They leveraged the Android marketplace and ecosystem, Maps etc. >Of course going with Microsoft is an option but all these partners have been there done that. So they know better. :) I don't know what that snark means, but the meme keeps getting repeated. OEMs have been making rich profits all along selling PCs (and from crippling them with useless software that makes them even more money, causing people to blame Windows for their faults). It's not as if Microsoft bought Dell and then clobbered the other OEMs(like Google seems to be in real danger of doing with Motorola).
      - barista 15y ago
        Re. the snark: the OEMs went with microsoft but were disappointed because microsoft had a lousy OS especially as compared to iOS. Microsoft needs to do some work to gain their confidence back. WP7 looks much more competitive though. I have Focus. Love it.
- barista 15y ago
  Wow! So many downvotes and not even a single convincing argument against? Gotta love HN.

Bud 15y ago

If you're going to raise irrelevant political issues like lightbulbs, at least place the blame where it belongs, which is not on "Congress" generally, but on a few Texas House Republicans (Jo Barton in particular), who are idiotically attacking the idea of having standards to increase energy efficiency. Placing the blame on Congress generally spreads the incorrect belief that all legislators and both parties are responsible for criminally stupid stuff like this. They're not.

steins 15y ago
They are all responsible for placing the idiotic ban on incandescent bulbs to begin with. The federal govt has no business legislating the everyday minutiae of our lives.
- Bud 15y ago
  You are sadly misinformed; apparently taken in by Tea Party propaganda. There is no "ban" on incandescent bulbs, and never was. The proposed standards, which were bipartisan, were intended to increase the efficiency of incandescents over time.
  - nitrogen 15y ago
    If there is a physical limitation to the amount of light that can be produced by a light bulb that uses black body emission to generate light, then a standard of efficiency that exceeds that physical limitation is an effective ban on generating light via black body emission. That's the way Congress loves to roll: they won't explicitly ban something they don't like (so they can save face with their constituents), but they'll do everything they can to make it untenable.
  - andrewflnr 15y ago
    In California there is. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/24/california-incandescent-l_n_813093.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/24/california-incandes...
dantheman 15y ago

lallysingh 15y ago

I'd like to point out that congress, as a whole, is a set of useless jackasses. I wouldn't hold my breath for them to do anything useful, about anything, ever.

billswift 15y ago
Would that they were just useless. If they get involved, they will probably make the problem worse - after all, where do you think all the copyright extensions and the DMCA that have made the current copyright mess came from?
- daeken 15y ago
  Warning: This is a huge tangent. I've been speaking out against the DMCA for the better part of a decade now (pretty hard not to if you're a reverse-engineer with a sweet tooth for DRM), but for once I'm going to speak in its defense. There are many, many things in the DMCA that I disagree with, but it also has huge benefits and is responsible for making possible many sites you use every day, such as Youtube. The safe harbor exemptions in the DMCA make it possible for a service provider to host user content without worrying about being crushed under copyright claims; if you deal with DMCA takedowns when they come in, you're A-OK. Likewise, the DMCA made clear many elements of fair-use around reverse-engineering, but we don't ever hear about this because the same clauses also make many other things illegal. The DMCA is really a mixed bag. I'd love to see most of it go away, as it's personally impacted me on many occasions, but it also has good -- essential, many would say -- parts.

barista 15y ago

If the industry waits for congress to sort it out it will be left waiting for years. Even the critical issues such as debt ceiling were down to the wire. Its the problem that the industry has to figure out within itself.

roc 15y ago

How or why would Congress notice, let alone come to the conclusion that anything is "imploding" ? From a non-techy perspective, nothing's really happening. Barring any Samsung Galaxy fans in Europe who saw the Tab delayed a few weeks. The practical impact of these sorts of things isn't immediate or obvious at all. And from the perspective of an IP professional, or someone who regularly follows IP happenings, nothing notably new is happening. These lawsuits have been lobbed back and forth from tech companies in hot industry segments for decades now. It heats up in highly competitive markets, particularly those enjoying rapid innovation simply because the IP concerns aren't well settled. Consider the earlier days of the web or the biopharma industry not so long ago. There was no shortage of IP gamesmanship then. The only thing particularly new here, is the level of coverage the tech press is giving the issue. Not least of all because "Apple", "Google" and "patent" are some of the most effective traffic generating keywords. None of this is to say the state of affairs is good, or healthy. I'm just saying that if you're not a tech enthusiast with little context for IP actions, there's really no reason you'd see the current smartphone situation as being particularly new, different or dangerous.

spodek 15y ago

Maybe the U.S. Congress sees law as one of the U.S. strong points and is using litigation as a way of bringing money into the U.S. Look at how much Taiwanese money will be spent on U.S. lawyers. Yeah, Apple has to spend money too, but it's not leaving the country. HTC's money is new money to the country. Joking aside, it would be a stupid and counterproductive policy, but probably better than what's happening. At least it would be a plan instead of a slow decline.

marshray 15y ago
Right, why would Congress see any problem here? They're all lawyers, and it's the lawyers who are the real winners under the current policy.

jpdoctor 15y ago

> ... I find it unfathomable that Congress doesn't seem to have even noticed that the tech industry is imploding on itself with the ridiculousness of it all. You find it unfathomable that Congress, a body largely composed of lawyers, is not reacting to one of the greatest stimulus packages for lawyers? I would find it unfathomable if they changed the status quo.

mvzink 15y ago
Indeed. That's what bothers me about the cries for patent reform: you are asking lawyers to let tech companies fire huge swaths of other lawyers. However, maybe the patent wars (like this HTC v. Apple one) will climb to such heights of absurdity that the economy actually will be affected. Then Congress (or someone) might have to take notice.

r00fus 15y ago

Considering who owns Congress through campaign donations and given the "nature" of the tech industry to disrupt other industries, I can't imagine that there is any sympathy for the tech industry's problems on capitol hill.