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>Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Sorry, I don't buy that this h

>Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Sorry, I don't buy that this happens with any kind of frequency in the 21st century United States, such that a person could reasonably expect this to happen to them. Do you have more than ambiguous innuendo to back up this claim?

pdimitar 5y ago
What you "buy" makes no difference to what happened to people out there. Believe what you will.
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  I don't believe your argument even rises to the level of being anecdata. It's a tier or two below.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    It's not an argument. It's a stated observation. You can question it until the end of time, won't change something that already happened. Why are we doing this at all? You add absolutely nothing to the discussion, except maybe question if I haven't imagined things.
    - kspacewalk2 5y ago
      I simply observed that, without a lot of elaboration, it is you with your claims that added nothing to the discussion, despite appearing to do so. Saying wild things with no elaboration and evidence is worse than adding nothing, in fact. It's subtracting, or detracting from the conversation. Discussions in higher-quality forums sometimes involve calling out such lazy third-person maybe-accounts presented as valid discussion items. You're getting salty for being called out and say "I don't care". Fine, you don't care. This, however, is not your personal page, it's a public discussion where claims are challenged. When I reply to your comment, I'm not necessarily replying to "you", I'm contributing to the overall discussion that others read, and make their own conclusions from all of it. And I don't think there's any reason whatsoever for a dispassionate observer who may not be aware of how things are in the US these days to come away thinking that US cops ubiquitously and habitually torture detainees by beating them.
      - pdimitar 5y ago
        You can keep repeating the same things, I don't mind. I'll say again as well: I stated things that are impossible to prove in an internet forum. I've admitted I got no solid proof -- you can just say that you don't believe me and that could have been the end of it. Why do you continue is beyond me. I already said that I haven't stated a fact. If you think I should not post anecdotal evidence then please, by all means, pester the mods to delete EVERY SINGLE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE posted here on HN. Let me not stop you.
- adwn 5y ago
  They asked for any evidence beyond "it's like this, trust me" and you answered with "really, it's like this, trust me". Do you realize that if someone isn't convinced after the first "trust me", they won't be convinced by the second "trust me"?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Sure. A better reply is: "I am here to state an observation and not to prove anything to anyone since it's not a court room. Believe me if you want, I'll not stick around to find out".
    - adwn 5y ago
      Well, have you observed that behavior first-hand? Did someone you know and trust observe it first-hand and tell you about it? Etc. We don't ask you to "prove" anything, but some more information instead of vague hints would be helpful.
      - pdimitar 5y ago
        I thought the standard benefit of the doubt implies that I am not here to tell stories just because I am bored. I've known such people, yes, three of them. Law-abiding normal people whose only mistake was that they were in a hurry and were slightly rude to the police officers because of it. Technically, each and every claim of somebody can be disputed to death. That's why I invoked your right to not trust what strangers say on the internet. Still, I thought it was a given that I have some exposure to the claimed phenomena.
        pbhjpbhj 5y ago
        Did any of your acquaintances do anything after their release in response to the police torturing/brutalising them? Go to the press for example, or sue, raise a complaint, etc.? Reading between the lines you're saying torture/brutality following arrest for speeding has been the experience of 3 of your friends? Aside, your combative tone really isn't helping make a useful discussion. Something like "I have no evidence, sorry" would have been far better than attacking people requesting evidence.
- aardvarkr 5y ago
  Around these parts we like to see some evidence before making wildly speculative claims.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    You can just say "I don't believe you", I'll just say "OK, I came here to state an observation and not to emulate a court room, and I have other things to do afterwards" and we can all be on our merry way.
codezero 5y ago
85% of the people in Rikers haven’t been convicted of anything.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Rikers is a jail, not a prison. Jails are meant to hold people who have not yet completed their trial. Once you're convicted you get sent to prison.
  - codezero 5y ago
    Exactly the point. The police can waste your time. Those people can’t go to work and will likely lose their job because they are being jammed up by police.
    - notyourwork 5y ago
      This and OPs question are not related.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      Yea, the bail situation in this country is fucked.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        It varies a lot by state, however. Not every state has private bail bondsmen, bounty hunters, etc.
    - nerdponx 5y ago
      It's not just time. Rikers is as much of a violent, torturous, psychologically-toxic shithole as any prison, and people (often teenagers) can spend years stuck there [0]. [0]: https://revealnews.org/article-legacy/for-teens-at-rikers-island-solitary-confinement-pushes-mental-limits/ https://revealnews.org/article-legacy/for-teens-at-rikers-is...
    - kingcharles 5y ago
xandofish 5y ago
You are a fool.
mywittyname 5y ago
Anyone whose even been handcuffed knows this is a fact. They make no effort to hide the fact that they are intentionally causing you pain because they can.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  I've been handcuffed, albeit only once in my life, and aside from the cop being exceedingly efficient (I didn't really see it coming until the cuffs were already on), he was actually entirely polite and professional about the whole thing. I've no doubt that there are bad cops out there. Probably more than a few. But I don't think it's helpful to portray the entire profession that way, even if they do bring a lot of the bad PR on themselves by how they handle the situations where a cop does behave badly.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Maybe it's because I've lived in Chicago my whole life, but I've only ever dealt with cops who could be generously described as evil. The cops at my high school sat in the lobby all day harassing students, one of them was fired for starting a relationship with a student. The union contested and got his job back after he was elected president of their union. I've never had a government employee other than cops tell me to "fuck off" or "shut the fuck up". In fact, I can count on you hand the number of times anyone other than a close friend has said that to me, yet it seems like everyone I meet has been verbally abused by cops.
    - kingcharles 5y ago
      Chicago is bad. I've suffered bad abuse in Chicagoland by the police. I just did 8 years in the county jail due to the police violating the law and violating my rights.
      - edgyquant 5y ago
        Don’t you mean 8 months? In Illinois you can only be sentenced to less than a year in county jail unless you are awaiting trial in which case 8 years seems a bit much.
_bohm 5y ago
Rough rides are an example of a fairly well documented practice [0]. I personally know someone who was taken on one. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_(police_brutality) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_(police_brutality)
joncrane 5y ago
I was once arrested wearing nothing but a t shirt on a freezing night. The police officer intentionally left the windows open in my compartment while blasting the heat in the driver's seat. I asked him to roll up the window and he ignored me. This was in Montgomery County, MD. It happens.
literallyaduck 5y ago
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teenager-accused-two-on-duty-cops-of-rape-she-had-no https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teena... Oh sorry that one left evidence, are you asking people to prove something without evidence? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_%28police_brutality%29 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_%28police_brutali... A practice so frequent it has a wiki article. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chavis-carter-commited-suicide-back-police-car-autopsy-article-1.1140421 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chavis-carter-comm... Oops, that one is a "suicide".
- edgyquant 5y ago
  These examples definitely leave medical traces though
RansomStark 5y ago
Didn't the Chicago PD run a black site a fee years back... Found it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/201...
SavantIdiot 5y ago
Ever protested anything that the conservative majority of your city supports, esp. the police? Try it some time, its fun! You'll find out pretty damn quick that the riot police love to hurt people, once something is declared a riot, it becomes a free-for-all. If you think this is innuendo, let me direct you to the 2 years of BLM protests around the country that have videos of cops behaving just lovely.
jandrese 5y ago
Sometimes the cases come out because "standard procedure" ends up killing someone with an underlying medical issue. One case involved cops who would strap a suspect to a chair and then cover their bodies with pepper spray including spraying directly up their nose and into eyeballs. One guy had a heart condition and died. The cops involved usually get some paid vacation if the case is severe enough to make it to the news. This has happened repeatedly and nobody seems to care. 10 seconds on Google turned up another case from this year. https://www.keranews.org/news/2021-03-19/north-texas-man-died-in-jail-after-being-restrained-pepper-sprayed-and-hooded-sheriff-confirms https://www.keranews.org/news/2021-03-19/north-texas-man-die...

pdimitar 5y ago

What you "buy" makes no difference to what happened to people out there. Believe what you will.

kspacewalk2 5y ago
I don't believe your argument even rises to the level of being anecdata. It's a tier or two below.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  It's not an argument. It's a stated observation. You can question it until the end of time, won't change something that already happened. Why are we doing this at all? You add absolutely nothing to the discussion, except maybe question if I haven't imagined things.
  - kspacewalk2 5y ago
    I simply observed that, without a lot of elaboration, it is you with your claims that added nothing to the discussion, despite appearing to do so. Saying wild things with no elaboration and evidence is worse than adding nothing, in fact. It's subtracting, or detracting from the conversation. Discussions in higher-quality forums sometimes involve calling out such lazy third-person maybe-accounts presented as valid discussion items. You're getting salty for being called out and say "I don't care". Fine, you don't care. This, however, is not your personal page, it's a public discussion where claims are challenged. When I reply to your comment, I'm not necessarily replying to "you", I'm contributing to the overall discussion that others read, and make their own conclusions from all of it. And I don't think there's any reason whatsoever for a dispassionate observer who may not be aware of how things are in the US these days to come away thinking that US cops ubiquitously and habitually torture detainees by beating them.
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      You can keep repeating the same things, I don't mind. I'll say again as well: I stated things that are impossible to prove in an internet forum. I've admitted I got no solid proof -- you can just say that you don't believe me and that could have been the end of it. Why do you continue is beyond me. I already said that I haven't stated a fact. If you think I should not post anecdotal evidence then please, by all means, pester the mods to delete EVERY SINGLE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE posted here on HN. Let me not stop you.
adwn 5y ago
They asked for any evidence beyond "it's like this, trust me" and you answered with "really, it's like this, trust me". Do you realize that if someone isn't convinced after the first "trust me", they won't be convinced by the second "trust me"?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Sure. A better reply is: "I am here to state an observation and not to prove anything to anyone since it's not a court room. Believe me if you want, I'll not stick around to find out".
  - adwn 5y ago
    Well, have you observed that behavior first-hand? Did someone you know and trust observe it first-hand and tell you about it? Etc. We don't ask you to "prove" anything, but some more information instead of vague hints would be helpful.
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      I thought the standard benefit of the doubt implies that I am not here to tell stories just because I am bored. I've known such people, yes, three of them. Law-abiding normal people whose only mistake was that they were in a hurry and were slightly rude to the police officers because of it. Technically, each and every claim of somebody can be disputed to death. That's why I invoked your right to not trust what strangers say on the internet. Still, I thought it was a given that I have some exposure to the claimed phenomena.
      - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
        Did any of your acquaintances do anything after their release in response to the police torturing/brutalising them? Go to the press for example, or sue, raise a complaint, etc.? Reading between the lines you're saying torture/brutality following arrest for speeding has been the experience of 3 of your friends? Aside, your combative tone really isn't helping make a useful discussion. Something like "I have no evidence, sorry" would have been far better than attacking people requesting evidence.
aardvarkr 5y ago
Around these parts we like to see some evidence before making wildly speculative claims.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  You can just say "I don't believe you", I'll just say "OK, I came here to state an observation and not to emulate a court room, and I have other things to do afterwards" and we can all be on our merry way.

codezero 5y ago

85% of the people in Rikers haven’t been convicted of anything.

colinmhayes 5y ago
Rikers is a jail, not a prison. Jails are meant to hold people who have not yet completed their trial. Once you're convicted you get sent to prison.
- codezero 5y ago
  Exactly the point. The police can waste your time. Those people can’t go to work and will likely lose their job because they are being jammed up by police.
  - notyourwork 5y ago
    This and OPs question are not related.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Yea, the bail situation in this country is fucked.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      It varies a lot by state, however. Not every state has private bail bondsmen, bounty hunters, etc.
  - nerdponx 5y ago
    It's not just time. Rikers is as much of a violent, torturous, psychologically-toxic shithole as any prison, and people (often teenagers) can spend years stuck there [0]. [0]: https://revealnews.org/article-legacy/for-teens-at-rikers-island-solitary-confinement-pushes-mental-limits/ https://revealnews.org/article-legacy/for-teens-at-rikers-is...
  - kingcharles 5y ago

xandofish 5y ago

You are a fool.

mywittyname 5y ago

Anyone whose even been handcuffed knows this is a fact. They make no effort to hide the fact that they are intentionally causing you pain because they can.

rootusrootus 5y ago
I've been handcuffed, albeit only once in my life, and aside from the cop being exceedingly efficient (I didn't really see it coming until the cuffs were already on), he was actually entirely polite and professional about the whole thing. I've no doubt that there are bad cops out there. Probably more than a few. But I don't think it's helpful to portray the entire profession that way, even if they do bring a lot of the bad PR on themselves by how they handle the situations where a cop does behave badly.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Maybe it's because I've lived in Chicago my whole life, but I've only ever dealt with cops who could be generously described as evil. The cops at my high school sat in the lobby all day harassing students, one of them was fired for starting a relationship with a student. The union contested and got his job back after he was elected president of their union. I've never had a government employee other than cops tell me to "fuck off" or "shut the fuck up". In fact, I can count on you hand the number of times anyone other than a close friend has said that to me, yet it seems like everyone I meet has been verbally abused by cops.
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    Chicago is bad. I've suffered bad abuse in Chicagoland by the police. I just did 8 years in the county jail due to the police violating the law and violating my rights.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Don’t you mean 8 months? In Illinois you can only be sentenced to less than a year in county jail unless you are awaiting trial in which case 8 years seems a bit much.

_bohm 5y ago

Rough rides are an example of a fairly well documented practice [0]. I personally know someone who was taken on one. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_(police_brutality) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_(police_brutality)

joncrane 5y ago

I was once arrested wearing nothing but a t shirt on a freezing night. The police officer intentionally left the windows open in my compartment while blasting the heat in the driver's seat. I asked him to roll up the window and he ignored me. This was in Montgomery County, MD. It happens.

literallyaduck 5y ago

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teenager-accused-two-on-duty-cops-of-rape-she-had-no https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teena... Oh sorry that one left evidence, are you asking people to prove something without evidence? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_%28police_brutality%29 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_%28police_brutali... A practice so frequent it has a wiki article. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chavis-carter-commited-suicide-back-police-car-autopsy-article-1.1140421 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/chavis-carter-comm... Oops, that one is a "suicide".

edgyquant 5y ago
These examples definitely leave medical traces though

RansomStark 5y ago

Didn't the Chicago PD run a black site a fee years back... Found it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/201...

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Ever protested anything that the conservative majority of your city supports, esp. the police? Try it some time, its fun! You'll find out pretty damn quick that the riot police love to hurt people, once something is declared a riot, it becomes a free-for-all. If you think this is innuendo, let me direct you to the 2 years of BLM protests around the country that have videos of cops behaving just lovely.

jandrese 5y ago

Sometimes the cases come out because "standard procedure" ends up killing someone with an underlying medical issue. One case involved cops who would strap a suspect to a chair and then cover their bodies with pepper spray including spraying directly up their nose and into eyeballs. One guy had a heart condition and died. The cops involved usually get some paid vacation if the case is severe enough to make it to the news. This has happened repeatedly and nobody seems to care. 10 seconds on Google turned up another case from this year. https://www.keranews.org/news/2021-03-19/north-texas-man-died-in-jail-after-being-restrained-pepper-sprayed-and-hooded-sheriff-confirms https://www.keranews.org/news/2021-03-19/north-texas-man-die...