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I trust that my "profit-seeking" dentist does the right thing, just like I trust that the "profit-seeking" engineer that built the home I live in and the "profi

I trust that my "profit-seeking" dentist does the right thing, just like I trust that the "profit-seeking" engineer that built the home I live in and the "profit-seeking" restaurant owner from the place I had lunch today. Please stop demonizing "profit-seeking". The problem is the lack of ethics of Facebook and Big Tech in general. Putting it on "private, profit-seeking" companies is a tired, sophomoric take.

amelius 5y ago
There are plenty of ways in which profit-seeking can hurt consumers. Just look up "dark patterns" for starters.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Again, this has nothing to do with "profit-seeking" and a lot to do with business ethics. Two completely separate issues.
  - amelius 5y ago
    Whether they are separate issues or not depends on the company. There is certainly an incentive for companies to make their ethics secondary to profit. Therefore, right now, from a consumer's perspective, it is a matter of trust. And strong consumer protection can help increase certainty for the consumer.
    - elvischidera 5y ago
      > Whether they are separate issues or not depends on the company. I don't understand this. At the end of the day they are separate things, probably you are saying a profit-seeking company is more likely to be unethical? The fact that two things are usually correlated doesn't make them the same, right?
      - amelius 5y ago
        I said: we should not trust profit-seeking companies to be ethical. Somehow, this was translated into: profit-seeking companies are unethical. Which is not what I said.
        rglullis 5y ago
        The issue is with your qualifier. Your implication is that what makes them unethical is the "profit-seeking", when is at best redundant (all companies are profit-seeking) and at worst misguided (boo-hoo, profit is bad)
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Read again the conversation and please understand that my main issue with your comment is in using "private, profit-seeking companies" as a shortcut for "unethical". > There is certainly an incentive for companies to make their ethics secondary to profit. Replace "companies" for "dentists", "engineers", "plumbers" and "cooks", and this statement is still valid. The temptation to cheat and cut corners to favor short-term gains will always exist. Yes, larger corporations give the ability for individuals to distance themselves from the consequences of their actions, and therefore it is more likely to see unethical behavior from large, faceless corporations. Still, this is not about "profit-seeking" or "profit-maximizing". Your issue (and mine) is with Corporatism, not Capitalism. It is an important distinction to make.
pixelgeek 5y ago
Is your dentist a corporation that is lead by a board of directors and has a series of shareholders that help define how it operates? If not then the comparison is not really valid. > The problem is the lack of ethics of Facebook and Big Tech in general. And big oil. And big pharma. And big anything. Large corporations are built to maximize profit. And it is this focus on profit that is the problem. So 'profit seeking'...
- rglullis 5y ago
  Unless you work and sell your labor "at-cost", you are also "profit-seeking". It does not mean that you are also "unethical". Profit-seeking should not imply unethical, no need to twist language when there is already the vocabulary to convey the proper meaning.
  - amelius 5y ago
    > Profit-seeking should not imply unethical Nobody said that profit-seeking implies unethical. It was said that profit-seeking companies should not deserve our unconditional trust.
    - yazantapuz 5y ago
      Nobody is saying that they deserve unconditional trust neither.
  - pixelgeek 5y ago
    > Unless you work and sell your labor "at-cost", you are also "profit-seeking". Well the last time I checked I didn't turn a blind eye to my work helping to start a promote a genocide in Burma so I really don't see your point. I don't think that profit-seeking ever results in behaviour that is ethical. If I make a decision based on my desire for more money then it is almost always going to be a choice not based on ethical or moral values. The difference is the scale. If I cut a few corners as a independent contractor then at worst my client gets slightly less value from their money. If I cut corners as the owner of a chain restaurant then my profit-seeking has an impact on the employees I have and my customers. If I am a major corporation that has billions of users then my profit-seeking has incredible impact.

amelius 5y ago

There are plenty of ways in which profit-seeking can hurt consumers. Just look up "dark patterns" for starters.

rglullis 5y ago
Again, this has nothing to do with "profit-seeking" and a lot to do with business ethics. Two completely separate issues.
- amelius 5y ago
  Whether they are separate issues or not depends on the company. There is certainly an incentive for companies to make their ethics secondary to profit. Therefore, right now, from a consumer's perspective, it is a matter of trust. And strong consumer protection can help increase certainty for the consumer.
  - elvischidera 5y ago
    > Whether they are separate issues or not depends on the company. I don't understand this. At the end of the day they are separate things, probably you are saying a profit-seeking company is more likely to be unethical? The fact that two things are usually correlated doesn't make them the same, right?
    - amelius 5y ago
      I said: we should not trust profit-seeking companies to be ethical. Somehow, this was translated into: profit-seeking companies are unethical. Which is not what I said.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        The issue is with your qualifier. Your implication is that what makes them unethical is the "profit-seeking", when is at best redundant (all companies are profit-seeking) and at worst misguided (boo-hoo, profit is bad)
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Read again the conversation and please understand that my main issue with your comment is in using "private, profit-seeking companies" as a shortcut for "unethical". > There is certainly an incentive for companies to make their ethics secondary to profit. Replace "companies" for "dentists", "engineers", "plumbers" and "cooks", and this statement is still valid. The temptation to cheat and cut corners to favor short-term gains will always exist. Yes, larger corporations give the ability for individuals to distance themselves from the consequences of their actions, and therefore it is more likely to see unethical behavior from large, faceless corporations. Still, this is not about "profit-seeking" or "profit-maximizing". Your issue (and mine) is with Corporatism, not Capitalism. It is an important distinction to make.

pixelgeek 5y ago

Is your dentist a corporation that is lead by a board of directors and has a series of shareholders that help define how it operates? If not then the comparison is not really valid. > The problem is the lack of ethics of Facebook and Big Tech in general. And big oil. And big pharma. And big anything. Large corporations are built to maximize profit. And it is this focus on profit that is the problem. So 'profit seeking'...

rglullis 5y ago
Unless you work and sell your labor "at-cost", you are also "profit-seeking". It does not mean that you are also "unethical". Profit-seeking should not imply unethical, no need to twist language when there is already the vocabulary to convey the proper meaning.
- amelius 5y ago
  > Profit-seeking should not imply unethical Nobody said that profit-seeking implies unethical. It was said that profit-seeking companies should not deserve our unconditional trust.
  - yazantapuz 5y ago
    Nobody is saying that they deserve unconditional trust neither.
- pixelgeek 5y ago
  > Unless you work and sell your labor "at-cost", you are also "profit-seeking". Well the last time I checked I didn't turn a blind eye to my work helping to start a promote a genocide in Burma so I really don't see your point. I don't think that profit-seeking ever results in behaviour that is ethical. If I make a decision based on my desire for more money then it is almost always going to be a choice not based on ethical or moral values. The difference is the scale. If I cut a few corners as a independent contractor then at worst my client gets slightly less value from their money. If I cut corners as the owner of a chain restaurant then my profit-seeking has an impact on the employees I have and my customers. If I am a major corporation that has billions of users then my profit-seeking has incredible impact.