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> retribution is an important social construct I would like to see evidence to back up your claim - evidence that supports the extension of this idea from the

by fouric 5y ago

> retribution is an important social construct I would like to see evidence to back up your claim - evidence that supports the extension of this idea from the real world to the internet, because you don't get that for free. Moreover, I can think of far more examples of retribution causing harm in the real world than doing good. Bullying in school, being fired for whistleblowing, being jailed or executed for wrongthink in China, getting slammed with jail time for uncovering criminally bad security on some website, losing your job because a mob on Twitter saw a doctored video of you doing something they didn't like... Are all of these "very few cases where anonymity is useful"? > What if we remain anonymous to the discussion parties but guaranteed linked identity to the systems that host us? That still enables every most of the above abuses - which also happen to be the worse ones. If you don't have even the potential for anonymity on the internet, then you get suppression of speech by tyrannical governments. > If someone does something very bad, the identity could be revealed, i.e. doxxed This reads as an ad for mob justice - and even if it weren't, this mechanism would absolutely still be exploited to that effect.

mrtksn 5y ago
The real life interactions are much more civil because of the fact that being an a*hole gets retribution from the person you are being an a*hole to or from the society. Perfectly nice people turn into psychos when they interact with people online. Observe kids playing games in real life, they are very rarely as vulgar or sadistic as on online games. A walk even in the most crowded places is much nicer experience that an anonymous online place. Oh and yes, the very few cases where anonymity is useful are exactly that kind of cases(whistleblowing, journalism targeting powerful figures etc.). These are rarities and are valuable but %99 of the discussion on the internet are not about these and I suggested a mechanism for anonymity anyway.
- naravara 5y ago
  > Observe kids playing games in real life, they are very rarely as vulgar or sadistic as on online games. Kids are actually rarely vulgar or sadistic when playing online as well. The toxicity of online gaming communities is a self-reinforcing feedback loop. The toxic kids find a home and either drive all the nice kids out with their toxicity or prompt the nice kids to adapt and internalize toxic ways of engaging. It's not an inherent feature of kids themselves and plenty of online games that were explicitly targeted at children have been perfectly fine without epidemics of griefing or abuse as long as they constrain kids to playing within their own friend-groups rather than against strangers. Most of the foulest people are actually adults with jobs or surly teenagers. The kids are fine.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    >Most of the foulest people are actually adults with jobs or surly teenagers. The kids are fine. Removal of anonymity will help to settle this one. Please notice how I don't simply propose removal of anonymity as using real name in your online image. I am proposing a way to lose anonymity in exchange of overriding the management when you have a collusion.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Being vulgar is a function of there being women present. Get a group of exclusively young men together and the tone and talk will become very, very though, very, very quickly. But if we want to avoid dealing with assholes, lets have excellent block tools. There might be issues with trolls on Signal, but I have never meet any because I only interact with my family.
- imtringued 5y ago
  >The real life interactions are much more civil because of the fact that being an ahole gets retribution from the person you are being an ahole to or from the society. When people are assholes on the road I just want them to get away from me and leave me alone.

by fouric 5y ago

mrtksn 5y ago

The real life interactions are much more civil because of the fact that being an a*hole gets retribution from the person you are being an a*hole to or from the society. Perfectly nice people turn into psychos when they interact with people online. Observe kids playing games in real life, they are very rarely as vulgar or sadistic as on online games. A walk even in the most crowded places is much nicer experience that an anonymous online place. Oh and yes, the very few cases where anonymity is useful are exactly that kind of cases(whistleblowing, journalism targeting powerful figures etc.). These are rarities and are valuable but %99 of the discussion on the internet are not about these and I suggested a mechanism for anonymity anyway.

naravara 5y ago
> Observe kids playing games in real life, they are very rarely as vulgar or sadistic as on online games. Kids are actually rarely vulgar or sadistic when playing online as well. The toxicity of online gaming communities is a self-reinforcing feedback loop. The toxic kids find a home and either drive all the nice kids out with their toxicity or prompt the nice kids to adapt and internalize toxic ways of engaging. It's not an inherent feature of kids themselves and plenty of online games that were explicitly targeted at children have been perfectly fine without epidemics of griefing or abuse as long as they constrain kids to playing within their own friend-groups rather than against strangers. Most of the foulest people are actually adults with jobs or surly teenagers. The kids are fine.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  >Most of the foulest people are actually adults with jobs or surly teenagers. The kids are fine. Removal of anonymity will help to settle this one. Please notice how I don't simply propose removal of anonymity as using real name in your online image. I am proposing a way to lose anonymity in exchange of overriding the management when you have a collusion.
tomjen3 5y ago
Being vulgar is a function of there being women present. Get a group of exclusively young men together and the tone and talk will become very, very though, very, very quickly. But if we want to avoid dealing with assholes, lets have excellent block tools. There might be issues with trolls on Signal, but I have never meet any because I only interact with my family.
imtringued 5y ago
>The real life interactions are much more civil because of the fact that being an ahole gets retribution from the person you are being an ahole to or from the society. When people are assholes on the road I just want them to get away from me and leave me alone.