4 ms·

>On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem There are a hell of a lot of computer scientists and engineers

>On one side are the computer scientists and engineers who understand the nature of the problem There are a hell of a lot of computer scientists and engineers who vote republican, certainty not a majority but definitely a large enough minority you can't discount them. They just don't broadcast it for reasons that should be obvious to anyone reading these comments.

rpmisms 5y ago
Yeah, hi from the peanut gallery. I vote R because they support some things I value. I just don't talk about it at work, because I'm not suicidal.
ribosometronome 5y ago
They're embarrassed to be seen supporting candidates that are so transparently anti-science, anti-education and anti-reason?
- zdragnar 5y ago
  All three of those labels can easily be applied to both major parties, just with different examples. Conservatives tend to not speak up because the hyperbolic vitriol has gotten out of hand.
  - joe5150 5y ago
    they could easily find a social circle and likely a workplace too where their views are accepted or even celebrated. why don't they?
    - zdragnar 5y ago
      "Run a tech company that employs conservatives" is not a business plan. It isn't easy to know what kind of bubble you are getting into until it is too late. OTOH, tech conservatives tend to be more libertarian than socially conservative, so (massive generalization here) tend to prefer to work at work and do politics elsewhere. "Celebrating" political positions is such a foreign concept to me that I dont even know where to begin with that. Left or right, I would probably avoid it.
danbmil99 5y ago
At this point, voting for Republican candidates means supporting an institution that has given up on Democratic norms and is clearly aiming at an authoritarian takeover of the government of the United States. Up until about 5 years ago I would agree that being even-handed on political matters is appropriate. But when one political party has gone completely mad with lust for power and has given up on science and rationality, how you vote is no longer just a political matter. The threat the Republican Party poses to the country and the world is existential. And yes, there are crazies on the left, but no, they are nowhere near the threat posed by the GOP. The difference is several orders of magnitude.
- torstenvl 5y ago
  If you believe Donald Trump gave up on democratic norms and was "aiming [for] an authoritarian takeover," then surely you must recognize that it was Republicans like Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell, Brad Raffensperger, Stephen Riche, and others who stopped him... right?
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    There's been, for a long time, an intra-party struggle between right-wing populist insurgents and establishment/institutionalists since Newt Gingrich. It was a slow process, but over time it seems the former are winning, the most obvious first sign was the McCain-Palin ticket (Palin being the populist). The scene as increasingly been victorious for the insurgents. Those guys you are pointing out are hanging on by their fingernails.
  - danbmil99 5y ago
    Yes, and the big guy has incessantly gone after each one you mention, hoping to drum them out of the party. I wonder what his motivation is... Even now, the few who voted to impeach over Jan 6 are cowed and quiet. Mitt Romney just voted against the Manchin-approved compromise voting rights bill. These cowards are all afraid of their shadows. It's an incredible, once-per-century show of absolute cowardice and submission to a strongman. The US has a decent shot of going the way of Turkey, Hungary, and Venezuela. The elected GOP senators and congresspeople are 100% to blame. They are sad, sorry, craven and ineffectual people.
ModernMech 5y ago
I don’t know how they vote or if they identify with any parties, but there is a disturbing, very patriarchal strain of neo-feudalism I have encountered in some tech circles — basically the idea that we need to return to a time of lords and serfs. Of course I have found that when pressed, those who hold this philosophy seem to picture themselves as the lords in this fantasy utopia. Maybe these are just power fantasies, but some of them seem very serious about it (Curtis Yarvin is probably the most notable of the bunch)
- fnimick 5y ago
  Techbro libertarians are the worst - the people who think that because some can be successful, anyone who is disadvantaged is so because of personal failings and is underserving of help. Naturally this leads to anti-democratic leanings to protect their wealth. See Peter Thiel: "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." The freedom he desires is the freedom to use his privilege to oppress others.
- api 5y ago
  I was really into early hacker and BBS culture in the 90s, and this point of view was rare to nonexistent. There was a lot of teen and young adult angst and egotism but that’s not unusual. It wasn’t ideological and the ideas tended to be either left or libertarian. I would have called myself a libertarian back then but that was back when words meant things, or at least more than they do now. I stopped using the term when the fascists took it over. It’s popular in some left leaning circles and particularly among people who did not live through that era to claim that libertarianism and cyberculture was always like this. It wasn’t. There was a mass conversion event around the early 20-teens that sort of coincided with Gamergate (not sure how important GG was but that was the era). I’d say a large proportion of an entire generation of younger “hacker” types were mass converted to fascism or neoreaction. Racism also made a massive comeback. I still don’t fully understand it. The LessWrong orbit seems to be a major factor. I never found that whole circle particularly interesting, but a lot of people sure did.

rpmisms 5y ago

Yeah, hi from the peanut gallery. I vote R because they support some things I value. I just don't talk about it at work, because I'm not suicidal.

ribosometronome 5y ago

They're embarrassed to be seen supporting candidates that are so transparently anti-science, anti-education and anti-reason?

zdragnar 5y ago
All three of those labels can easily be applied to both major parties, just with different examples. Conservatives tend to not speak up because the hyperbolic vitriol has gotten out of hand.
- joe5150 5y ago
  they could easily find a social circle and likely a workplace too where their views are accepted or even celebrated. why don't they?
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    "Run a tech company that employs conservatives" is not a business plan. It isn't easy to know what kind of bubble you are getting into until it is too late. OTOH, tech conservatives tend to be more libertarian than socially conservative, so (massive generalization here) tend to prefer to work at work and do politics elsewhere. "Celebrating" political positions is such a foreign concept to me that I dont even know where to begin with that. Left or right, I would probably avoid it.

danbmil99 5y ago

At this point, voting for Republican candidates means supporting an institution that has given up on Democratic norms and is clearly aiming at an authoritarian takeover of the government of the United States. Up until about 5 years ago I would agree that being even-handed on political matters is appropriate. But when one political party has gone completely mad with lust for power and has given up on science and rationality, how you vote is no longer just a political matter. The threat the Republican Party poses to the country and the world is existential. And yes, there are crazies on the left, but no, they are nowhere near the threat posed by the GOP. The difference is several orders of magnitude.

torstenvl 5y ago
If you believe Donald Trump gave up on democratic norms and was "aiming [for] an authoritarian takeover," then surely you must recognize that it was Republicans like Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell, Brad Raffensperger, Stephen Riche, and others who stopped him... right?
- tehjoker 5y ago
  There's been, for a long time, an intra-party struggle between right-wing populist insurgents and establishment/institutionalists since Newt Gingrich. It was a slow process, but over time it seems the former are winning, the most obvious first sign was the McCain-Palin ticket (Palin being the populist). The scene as increasingly been victorious for the insurgents. Those guys you are pointing out are hanging on by their fingernails.
- danbmil99 5y ago
  Yes, and the big guy has incessantly gone after each one you mention, hoping to drum them out of the party. I wonder what his motivation is... Even now, the few who voted to impeach over Jan 6 are cowed and quiet. Mitt Romney just voted against the Manchin-approved compromise voting rights bill. These cowards are all afraid of their shadows. It's an incredible, once-per-century show of absolute cowardice and submission to a strongman. The US has a decent shot of going the way of Turkey, Hungary, and Venezuela. The elected GOP senators and congresspeople are 100% to blame. They are sad, sorry, craven and ineffectual people.

ModernMech 5y ago

I don’t know how they vote or if they identify with any parties, but there is a disturbing, very patriarchal strain of neo-feudalism I have encountered in some tech circles — basically the idea that we need to return to a time of lords and serfs. Of course I have found that when pressed, those who hold this philosophy seem to picture themselves as the lords in this fantasy utopia. Maybe these are just power fantasies, but some of them seem very serious about it (Curtis Yarvin is probably the most notable of the bunch)

fnimick 5y ago
Techbro libertarians are the worst - the people who think that because some can be successful, anyone who is disadvantaged is so because of personal failings and is underserving of help. Naturally this leads to anti-democratic leanings to protect their wealth. See Peter Thiel: "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." The freedom he desires is the freedom to use his privilege to oppress others.
api 5y ago
I was really into early hacker and BBS culture in the 90s, and this point of view was rare to nonexistent. There was a lot of teen and young adult angst and egotism but that’s not unusual. It wasn’t ideological and the ideas tended to be either left or libertarian. I would have called myself a libertarian back then but that was back when words meant things, or at least more than they do now. I stopped using the term when the fascists took it over. It’s popular in some left leaning circles and particularly among people who did not live through that era to claim that libertarianism and cyberculture was always like this. It wasn’t. There was a mass conversion event around the early 20-teens that sort of coincided with Gamergate (not sure how important GG was but that was the era). I’d say a large proportion of an entire generation of younger “hacker” types were mass converted to fascism or neoreaction. Racism also made a massive comeback. I still don’t fully understand it. The LessWrong orbit seems to be a major factor. I never found that whole circle particularly interesting, but a lot of people sure did.