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I'm not saying it's rational, but I have some sort of deep seated disgust for these types of transplants. Intellectually I know we don't have enough donations

I'm not saying it's rational, but I have some sort of deep seated disgust for these types of transplants. Intellectually I know we don't have enough donations to match the demand and in my own life I've given blood and signed up to be an organ donor, but there is something across species like this that just makes my stomach kinda turn.

nkrisc 5y ago
Why do you think that is? It doesn’t bother me, and I’m genuinely curious why you (and I’m sure others) might feel that way.
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  Honestly, maybe it has something to do with a similar revulsion I have to bestiality. I think some of these things are hardwired.
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    For what it’s worth, I’m pretty repulsed by bestiality as well.
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    I think it's the body horror aspect, thinking that there is a living pig-organ inside of you keeping you alive. That would freak anyone out if they thought about it. At the same time though, if it were meant to be a temporary life-saving procedure to keep you at optimal health for as long as possible then it makes more sense. I would feel a similar (if less-alien) feeling about having a deceased person's kidney in me as well, after all. I hope I am fortunate enough to never have to make that decision while still living a long and fruitful life.
siva7 5y ago
So a pig is not worth saving your life because this species is subpar but good enough for being eaten?
- TotempaaltJ 5y ago
  This seems like a very hostile reading of GP's comment... GP never said they eat pig (for all we know they might be vegan), and it's acknowledged that it's an irrational feeling. It doesn't really make sense to then challenge that feeling based on a rational argument.
  - siva7 5y ago
    You are right, but i suspect for many people it will be this line of thinking.
    - Griffinsauce 5y ago
      That is an assumption and it's not very productive to try and test it in this way.
    - TotempaaltJ 5y ago
      That still doesn't justify the hostile interpretation of the original comment. You could've phrased it differently... Anyway, even if it is that line of thinking, I can totally see how people would see some sort of boundary between "food" and "can be put into my body". I don't see it that way myself, but I understand why people might, and it's their prerogative to decline such a transplant. I wouldn't accept it as an argument against making it a legal procedure though.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  I think they are describing more of a primitive reaction than a rational opinion. Much like someone may have no ethical issues with eating tarantulas but still be disgusted by the idea of actually doing so.
- edent 5y ago
  What makes you think they eat pigs? I feel uneasy about bringing a life into this world solely to harvest it - whether that's for food, organs, or anything else.
s_dev 5y ago
Do you feel similar with artificially grown organs? Since they were never part of a real human?
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  I don't. I would prefer that to the other, honestly, or even over one that came from a currently-deceased person. Maybe they could even use my own cells to make the organ. Then it's just my kidney 2.0. That's much easier to digest mentally. That being said, I'm for finding medical advancements that will extend and improve human life, even if that advancement comes from animal organs (at least temporarily). For me the goal is to decrease suffering. I can deal with a little revulsion to the method as for me the end definitely justifies the means.
daniel-cussen 5y ago
Yeah especially because of chimeric DNA. There's a gene in dogs, for instance, that works great for them, makes them man's best friend, but when a man ends up with that same gene, it makes him follow people with authority and be super submissive. Second of all, I believe everyone should commit to every organ in their body for the whole ride of life. No organ left behind, the soul isn't just the heart or brain, it's every organ. And if you have to lose an organ, live with it, that's part of why so many organs come in pairs. Sure doctors tell you how cool they were when they transplanted a heart for the first time, but what are the outcomes like for the patient, like really? Warfarin? Immune suppression and therefore all kinds of warts and other parasites? Doctors make it sound like you "need" a new organ, but really it's the surgeon who needs to perform a surgery to keep being a surgeon. It absolutely is not like swapping in a brand new power supply for your computer.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  I’d rather have the chance to live with a transplanted organ than just die.
- ISL 5y ago
  My aunt needed a new liver. Her liver failed, so she died. Had a liver-transplant been available (she was on the list), she might still be alive. There is a very good chance that the surgeon who would have performed the transplant is still a surgeon, despite the fact that said transplant never happened. My aunt, on the other hand, needed that liver.
  - daniel-cussen 5y ago
    That's fair. You might still enjoy some time with her if she were still around. I won't pry. But the two questions I have for you to answer for yourself, not on this forum, but for yourself, are, first, how long did she manage to live? Did she reach a ripe old age? Death comes for us all. You can't expect it to never come about. Maybe getting a liver transplant doesn't count as cheating death. I highly doubt most people in most settings could count on this procedure as a natural and wholesome way to extend their life. Liver transplants aren't exactly chamomile infusions. I also imagine if you're telling the world about it that she was on the list it was not because she was irresponsible with herself. Tons of people are responsible with themselves. It's just not all people. Some people treat every part of their body that isn't the pleasure center in their brain like it's the slave of that pleasure center in their brain. And you claim she might still be alive, meaning she might not have died of anything else yet. Again, death is inevitable. I will die. You will die. She died already, but if she hadn't, she would eventually die all the same. Doctors want to sell you the "save your life" angle, but in the literal sense of the phrase "save your life" nothing in medicine can do anything like that.
koheripbal 5y ago
You would not feel this way if you were a recipient in dire need. As someone who had to wait painfully long for a transplant, I would have much preferred a pig organ sooner (and possibly of higher quality).
- 3pt14159 5y ago
  I actually disagree with you. I think I would still feel disgusted but I would get over it and get the organ anyway. It's not a rational thing.
DocTomoe 5y ago
We should welcome this kind of research, because it dries out Chinese organ harvesting[1] and criminal organ markets: [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...
rp1 5y ago
It’s weird that you could have a visceral reaction to the conceptual notion of something that has nothing to do with you. Similar to how it’s weird that people’s stomach churn when thinking about abortion despite never having one, or how people are against gay marriage despite not being gay. Really unhealthy IMO
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  >It’s weird that you could have a visceral reaction to the conceptual notion of something that has nothing to do with you. Visceral reactions are quite common. How about stories and notions of rape, murder, infanticide, and slavery?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  Something doesn’t have to involve you to trigger a visceral response. I’m viscerally disgusted by many atrocities around the world but it’s not as if I’m at all involved in them.
silicon2401 5y ago
It's a product of your personality and your time. People in olden times also used to be terrified at the thought of eating tomatoes or touching a light switch, but it's only a problem for adults who are generally more ossified in their worldviews. Children and future generations generally regard anything as normal. If I needed a kidney you can bet I'd take a pig, monkey, dog, whatever kidney I could get if it increased my chances at a healthy life.

nkrisc 5y ago

Why do you think that is? It doesn’t bother me, and I’m genuinely curious why you (and I’m sure others) might feel that way.

3pt14159 5y ago
Honestly, maybe it has something to do with a similar revulsion I have to bestiality. I think some of these things are hardwired.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  For what it’s worth, I’m pretty repulsed by bestiality as well.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  I think it's the body horror aspect, thinking that there is a living pig-organ inside of you keeping you alive. That would freak anyone out if they thought about it. At the same time though, if it were meant to be a temporary life-saving procedure to keep you at optimal health for as long as possible then it makes more sense. I would feel a similar (if less-alien) feeling about having a deceased person's kidney in me as well, after all. I hope I am fortunate enough to never have to make that decision while still living a long and fruitful life.

siva7 5y ago

So a pig is not worth saving your life because this species is subpar but good enough for being eaten?

TotempaaltJ 5y ago
This seems like a very hostile reading of GP's comment... GP never said they eat pig (for all we know they might be vegan), and it's acknowledged that it's an irrational feeling. It doesn't really make sense to then challenge that feeling based on a rational argument.
- siva7 5y ago
  You are right, but i suspect for many people it will be this line of thinking.
  - Griffinsauce 5y ago
    That is an assumption and it's not very productive to try and test it in this way.
  - TotempaaltJ 5y ago
    That still doesn't justify the hostile interpretation of the original comment. You could've phrased it differently... Anyway, even if it is that line of thinking, I can totally see how people would see some sort of boundary between "food" and "can be put into my body". I don't see it that way myself, but I understand why people might, and it's their prerogative to decline such a transplant. I wouldn't accept it as an argument against making it a legal procedure though.
nicoburns 5y ago
I think they are describing more of a primitive reaction than a rational opinion. Much like someone may have no ethical issues with eating tarantulas but still be disgusted by the idea of actually doing so.
edent 5y ago
What makes you think they eat pigs? I feel uneasy about bringing a life into this world solely to harvest it - whether that's for food, organs, or anything else.

s_dev 5y ago

Do you feel similar with artificially grown organs? Since they were never part of a real human?

BizarroLand 5y ago
I don't. I would prefer that to the other, honestly, or even over one that came from a currently-deceased person. Maybe they could even use my own cells to make the organ. Then it's just my kidney 2.0. That's much easier to digest mentally. That being said, I'm for finding medical advancements that will extend and improve human life, even if that advancement comes from animal organs (at least temporarily). For me the goal is to decrease suffering. I can deal with a little revulsion to the method as for me the end definitely justifies the means.

daniel-cussen 5y ago

Yeah especially because of chimeric DNA. There's a gene in dogs, for instance, that works great for them, makes them man's best friend, but when a man ends up with that same gene, it makes him follow people with authority and be super submissive. Second of all, I believe everyone should commit to every organ in their body for the whole ride of life. No organ left behind, the soul isn't just the heart or brain, it's every organ. And if you have to lose an organ, live with it, that's part of why so many organs come in pairs. Sure doctors tell you how cool they were when they transplanted a heart for the first time, but what are the outcomes like for the patient, like really? Warfarin? Immune suppression and therefore all kinds of warts and other parasites? Doctors make it sound like you "need" a new organ, but really it's the surgeon who needs to perform a surgery to keep being a surgeon. It absolutely is not like swapping in a brand new power supply for your computer.

kayodelycaon 5y ago
I’d rather have the chance to live with a transplanted organ than just die.
ISL 5y ago
My aunt needed a new liver. Her liver failed, so she died. Had a liver-transplant been available (she was on the list), she might still be alive. There is a very good chance that the surgeon who would have performed the transplant is still a surgeon, despite the fact that said transplant never happened. My aunt, on the other hand, needed that liver.
- daniel-cussen 5y ago
  That's fair. You might still enjoy some time with her if she were still around. I won't pry. But the two questions I have for you to answer for yourself, not on this forum, but for yourself, are, first, how long did she manage to live? Did she reach a ripe old age? Death comes for us all. You can't expect it to never come about. Maybe getting a liver transplant doesn't count as cheating death. I highly doubt most people in most settings could count on this procedure as a natural and wholesome way to extend their life. Liver transplants aren't exactly chamomile infusions. I also imagine if you're telling the world about it that she was on the list it was not because she was irresponsible with herself. Tons of people are responsible with themselves. It's just not all people. Some people treat every part of their body that isn't the pleasure center in their brain like it's the slave of that pleasure center in their brain. And you claim she might still be alive, meaning she might not have died of anything else yet. Again, death is inevitable. I will die. You will die. She died already, but if she hadn't, she would eventually die all the same. Doctors want to sell you the "save your life" angle, but in the literal sense of the phrase "save your life" nothing in medicine can do anything like that.

koheripbal 5y ago

You would not feel this way if you were a recipient in dire need. As someone who had to wait painfully long for a transplant, I would have much preferred a pig organ sooner (and possibly of higher quality).

3pt14159 5y ago
I actually disagree with you. I think I would still feel disgusted but I would get over it and get the organ anyway. It's not a rational thing.

DocTomoe 5y ago

We should welcome this kind of research, because it dries out Chinese organ harvesting[1] and criminal organ markets: [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

rp1 5y ago

It’s weird that you could have a visceral reaction to the conceptual notion of something that has nothing to do with you. Similar to how it’s weird that people’s stomach churn when thinking about abortion despite never having one, or how people are against gay marriage despite not being gay. Really unhealthy IMO

s1artibartfast 5y ago
>It’s weird that you could have a visceral reaction to the conceptual notion of something that has nothing to do with you. Visceral reactions are quite common. How about stories and notions of rape, murder, infanticide, and slavery?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
honkdaddy 5y ago
Something doesn’t have to involve you to trigger a visceral response. I’m viscerally disgusted by many atrocities around the world but it’s not as if I’m at all involved in them.

silicon2401 5y ago

It's a product of your personality and your time. People in olden times also used to be terrified at the thought of eating tomatoes or touching a light switch, but it's only a problem for adults who are generally more ossified in their worldviews. Children and future generations generally regard anything as normal. If I needed a kidney you can bet I'd take a pig, monkey, dog, whatever kidney I could get if it increased my chances at a healthy life.