9 ms·

When I was younger, I often met people who seemed kind of dim to me, at first, and later found the majority of them to be orders of magnitude brighter than me.

by dusted 5y ago

When I was younger, I often met people who seemed kind of dim to me, at first, and later found the majority of them to be orders of magnitude brighter than me. It was not hard to connect the dots, the reason they were so much brighter was (in part) exactly because of what made them initially seem dim.. They asked questions, honestly. Not the showoff kind of question you ask to show how much you know, but real, honest questions that not only showed how little they knew, but importantly, allowed them to actually learn and understand, rather than just nod and not get it. My intuition has changed from this, I find it that most times, when someone shows genuine interest and asks honest, revealing questions about some new topic, they often excel at many other things (and will likely on the new topic as well). I'm adapting this myself, being honest, asking honestly, and sometimes looking really stupid (because, in that context, I am!), and I appreciate greatly both the wealth of information that allows me to access, and that almost anybody worth their salt recognizes this trait as well. Failing an interview due to looking stupid is probably a blessing in disguise, you don't want to be hired by people who can't see this, and you don't want to work next to people who's just pretending to understand, not learning because they can't afford to look stupid when they are (and thus stay stupid, and be much more inclined to try to pass blame to someone else, like you, who look stupid).

zitterbewegung 5y ago
If you don’t know the answers to stupid questions you originally don’t understand the topic fully .
SquishyPanda23 5y ago
> the reason they were so much brighter was (in part) exactly because of what made them initially seem dim The causality also goes the other way. Very smart people see their limitations more clearly and so tend to be humbler about what they know. They realize they can learn from others and so ask a lot of questions that others might feel foolish asking.
HeckFeck 5y ago
This reminds me of the simple brilliance of Socrates. He began from the premise that he knew nothing, and would ask all manner of simple questions building on top of the previous answers. It wasn't long before he uncovered how little everyone else actually knew, but what separated Socrates was his honesty: he knew nothing and admitted it. Naturally, the established powers and polite society didn't find this to their liking. We all know how his story ended.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  > Naturally, the established powers and polite society didn't find this to their liking. We all know how his story ended. Socrates was sentenced to death not for exposing how little everyone else knew. The esteemed philosopher was sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people - like a fly - with badgering questions that would force the questionee into a corner. Today we call this method of exposing contradictions in one's mindset the Socratic Method.
  - medstrom 5y ago
    Going by Wikipedia, it's not agreed why exactly he was executed, but you don't execute someone for being annoying. The official charges were impiety and "corrupting the youth". Probably some political groups felt threatened by the idea of lots of people turning to a different set of ethics or starting to distrust authority.
    - gruturo 5y ago
      > but you don't execute someone for being annoying Of course you do, you just wait until you have a more ethically "usable" argument than that, you build a solid case, then you have a mock trial and a fully expected conviction. It was as true 2500 years ago as it is today.
    - watwut 5y ago
      His students and friends took power once before and instituted dictatorship with help of Sparta (enemy city). Killed and tortured opposition, then were taken down in contra revolution. So yeah, "different set of ethics or starting to distrust authority" but no necessary in a nice way.
      - buu700 5y ago
        TIL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Tyrants#Socrates_and_the_Thirty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Tyrants#Socrates_and_th...
      - 5y ago
josh2600 5y ago
Confucius says there are 3 ways to gain wisdom: Imitation, which is easiest. Meditation, which is noblest. Experience, which is bitterest. Anytime I learn anything new, I imitate until I can’t anymore, then I meditate to understand why I think I can’t imitate anymore, then I experience my meditation, then I go back to mediating based on that experience. Repeat until you can’t OODA loop effectively anymore.
- medstrom 5y ago
  For the unaware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
- hnfong 5y ago
  I don't think Confucius said that.
  - new_stranger 5y ago
    Sure he did, I think I heard him on tikTok
akudha 5y ago
I think people who are afraid to ask questions are conditioned to be that way. It is just easy to keep quiet in a team meeting than risk asking/saying something that might expose one's lack of knowledge on the topic being discussed. People also secretly hope that someone else might ask the same question that they are thinking about, so the other person can take that risk. The environment largely shapes people's behavior. Of course, we can argue that we should work towards changing the environment for the better, but practically, how much influence does a person (who is not in a position of authority) have? In the end, people simply take the easy way out, which is keep quiet and only speak when they're absolutely sure that whatever they're about to say/ask is fully accurate.
- medstrom 5y ago
  >but practically, how much influence does a person (who is not in a position of authority) have? Surprisingly much, for the kind of people who stay quiet. They underestimate their own potential impact.
- unbalancedevh 5y ago
  So, there's that saying, "stay quiet and be thought a fool; open your mouth and remove all doubt." In a team meeting, it's easy to feel like you'll not only look foolish because you asked a question that everyone else knows the answer to, but you're also wasting everyone's time. I certainly remember feeling that way when I was a junior engineer. It was kind of a shock to me when I realized how many others generally had the same questions I did.
mysticllama 5y ago
this^. it took a lot of intentional practice for me to shake the fear of looking dumb when in front of peers. however, i've since realized that pretty consistently the people who share this willingness to come off as uninformed are the best people to work with -- they openly admit gaps in their knowledge and are eager to close them. conversely, when interviewing or evaluating people, if i observe someone pretend s/he knows something, that's often a really bad sign…
bena 5y ago
You've mistaken "wanting to be right" with wanting to "be correct". I've never inferred stupidity or lack of intelligence with asking questions. The only thing I've inferred was lack of knowledge. And the best way to get knowledge is to ask. People who ask want to know. They want the information to get to correct. People who don't ask questions eventually make assumptions that are wrong. Because they're so wrapped up in "looking smart" and they think being "smart" means having all the knowledge. They "want to be right" so they don't look information because looking would expose they don't already have it. Smart people seek information so they can apply it. Genuinely intelligent people just have faster processors.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
  There are questions and there are questions. Some questions in meetings are 'smart questions' intended to show you off and boost your stock a little, or move conversation to an area beneficial to you. Some questions are just ridiculous time wasters asked to show that you are there. There is a slim minority that asks questions to actually learn something and from experience I learned that those questions are best asked after the meeting directly to the person.
VortexDream 5y ago
This article speaks to my soul. All my life I've been told how intelligent I am. It's been such a massive driver for my own insecurities and fear around anything I do, since my identity is tied up so much in being right and not being wrong, in continuing to present this image of infallible intelligence. It's likely also fed into my issues with depression I've had all my life. I can consistently get people to see how intelligent I might be, but it's always such a struggle. It's like walking a tightrope. I hate it.
- stavros 5y ago
  It definitely gets much easier when you stop worrying about other people think of you.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- terr-dav 5y ago
  What helps me is to view intelligence as strictly a matter of brain power. I can use my intelligence to do things that are stupid, unwise, misinformed, harmful, etc. What I take from the article is that saying stupid things is the best way to avoid doing stupid things.
- mixmastamyk 5y ago
  Read the "Mindset" book by Dweck. Was introduced by our school, and it felt like it was written for me as well.
manmal 5y ago
> you don't want to be hired by people who can't see this The issue with this is that you might not even work with this one person declining you.
pddpro 5y ago
Whenever I ask questions, I tend to go to the very bottom of it. And I am not satisfied as long as I get a very intuitive and fundamental understanding of the topic. I have seen, however, that this can be tiring. Unless you are having the conversation with someone who has the time, willingness, and the knowledge to satisfy my curiosity, it is pointless to keep probing. People would often be exasperated or would be unable to provide me the intuition. Therefore, these days, I pretty much probe very little and if it seems that my questions won't really be answered, I leave it at that, mentally noting to do some independent research on the internet.
- u385639 5y ago
  This is especially tough because of how much skill it takes for you the questioner to not make the other person feel stupid when they realize they can't answer your questions.
  - d23 5y ago
    Yeah, I think the other thing that's made me shy away from it more as I've gotten older is asking the "stupid" question, getting a jargon-laden response, and realizing: this person isn't equipped to communicate the concept. It can be pretty exhausting to be the questioner in that case.
- Kinrany 5y ago
  Sometimes there are details one doesn't need to know to make a good decision. All of mathematics is built on this. However this only works when there is enough knowledge to know why the unimportant details won't matter.

by dusted 5y ago

zitterbewegung 5y ago

If you don’t know the answers to stupid questions you originally don’t understand the topic fully .

SquishyPanda23 5y ago

> the reason they were so much brighter was (in part) exactly because of what made them initially seem dim The causality also goes the other way. Very smart people see their limitations more clearly and so tend to be humbler about what they know. They realize they can learn from others and so ask a lot of questions that others might feel foolish asking.

HeckFeck 5y ago

This reminds me of the simple brilliance of Socrates. He began from the premise that he knew nothing, and would ask all manner of simple questions building on top of the previous answers. It wasn't long before he uncovered how little everyone else actually knew, but what separated Socrates was his honesty: he knew nothing and admitted it. Naturally, the established powers and polite society didn't find this to their liking. We all know how his story ended.

dotancohen 5y ago
> Naturally, the established powers and polite society didn't find this to their liking. We all know how his story ended. Socrates was sentenced to death not for exposing how little everyone else knew. The esteemed philosopher was sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people - like a fly - with badgering questions that would force the questionee into a corner. Today we call this method of exposing contradictions in one's mindset the Socratic Method.
- medstrom 5y ago
  Going by Wikipedia, it's not agreed why exactly he was executed, but you don't execute someone for being annoying. The official charges were impiety and "corrupting the youth". Probably some political groups felt threatened by the idea of lots of people turning to a different set of ethics or starting to distrust authority.
  - gruturo 5y ago
    > but you don't execute someone for being annoying Of course you do, you just wait until you have a more ethically "usable" argument than that, you build a solid case, then you have a mock trial and a fully expected conviction. It was as true 2500 years ago as it is today.
  - watwut 5y ago
    His students and friends took power once before and instituted dictatorship with help of Sparta (enemy city). Killed and tortured opposition, then were taken down in contra revolution. So yeah, "different set of ethics or starting to distrust authority" but no necessary in a nice way.
    - buu700 5y ago
      TIL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Tyrants#Socrates_and_the_Thirty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Tyrants#Socrates_and_th...
    - 5y ago

josh2600 5y ago

Confucius says there are 3 ways to gain wisdom: Imitation, which is easiest. Meditation, which is noblest. Experience, which is bitterest. Anytime I learn anything new, I imitate until I can’t anymore, then I meditate to understand why I think I can’t imitate anymore, then I experience my meditation, then I go back to mediating based on that experience. Repeat until you can’t OODA loop effectively anymore.

medstrom 5y ago
For the unaware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
hnfong 5y ago
I don't think Confucius said that.
- new_stranger 5y ago
  Sure he did, I think I heard him on tikTok

akudha 5y ago

I think people who are afraid to ask questions are conditioned to be that way. It is just easy to keep quiet in a team meeting than risk asking/saying something that might expose one's lack of knowledge on the topic being discussed. People also secretly hope that someone else might ask the same question that they are thinking about, so the other person can take that risk. The environment largely shapes people's behavior. Of course, we can argue that we should work towards changing the environment for the better, but practically, how much influence does a person (who is not in a position of authority) have? In the end, people simply take the easy way out, which is keep quiet and only speak when they're absolutely sure that whatever they're about to say/ask is fully accurate.

medstrom 5y ago
>but practically, how much influence does a person (who is not in a position of authority) have? Surprisingly much, for the kind of people who stay quiet. They underestimate their own potential impact.
unbalancedevh 5y ago
So, there's that saying, "stay quiet and be thought a fool; open your mouth and remove all doubt." In a team meeting, it's easy to feel like you'll not only look foolish because you asked a question that everyone else knows the answer to, but you're also wasting everyone's time. I certainly remember feeling that way when I was a junior engineer. It was kind of a shock to me when I realized how many others generally had the same questions I did.

mysticllama 5y ago

this^. it took a lot of intentional practice for me to shake the fear of looking dumb when in front of peers. however, i've since realized that pretty consistently the people who share this willingness to come off as uninformed are the best people to work with -- they openly admit gaps in their knowledge and are eager to close them. conversely, when interviewing or evaluating people, if i observe someone pretend s/he knows something, that's often a really bad sign…

bena 5y ago

You've mistaken "wanting to be right" with wanting to "be correct". I've never inferred stupidity or lack of intelligence with asking questions. The only thing I've inferred was lack of knowledge. And the best way to get knowledge is to ask. People who ask want to know. They want the information to get to correct. People who don't ask questions eventually make assumptions that are wrong. Because they're so wrapped up in "looking smart" and they think being "smart" means having all the knowledge. They "want to be right" so they don't look information because looking would expose they don't already have it. Smart people seek information so they can apply it. Genuinely intelligent people just have faster processors.

A4ET8a8uTh0 5y ago
There are questions and there are questions. Some questions in meetings are 'smart questions' intended to show you off and boost your stock a little, or move conversation to an area beneficial to you. Some questions are just ridiculous time wasters asked to show that you are there. There is a slim minority that asks questions to actually learn something and from experience I learned that those questions are best asked after the meeting directly to the person.

VortexDream 5y ago

This article speaks to my soul. All my life I've been told how intelligent I am. It's been such a massive driver for my own insecurities and fear around anything I do, since my identity is tied up so much in being right and not being wrong, in continuing to present this image of infallible intelligence. It's likely also fed into my issues with depression I've had all my life. I can consistently get people to see how intelligent I might be, but it's always such a struggle. It's like walking a tightrope. I hate it.

stavros 5y ago
It definitely gets much easier when you stop worrying about other people think of you.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
terr-dav 5y ago
What helps me is to view intelligence as strictly a matter of brain power. I can use my intelligence to do things that are stupid, unwise, misinformed, harmful, etc. What I take from the article is that saying stupid things is the best way to avoid doing stupid things.
mixmastamyk 5y ago
Read the "Mindset" book by Dweck. Was introduced by our school, and it felt like it was written for me as well.

manmal 5y ago

> you don't want to be hired by people who can't see this The issue with this is that you might not even work with this one person declining you.

pddpro 5y ago

Whenever I ask questions, I tend to go to the very bottom of it. And I am not satisfied as long as I get a very intuitive and fundamental understanding of the topic. I have seen, however, that this can be tiring. Unless you are having the conversation with someone who has the time, willingness, and the knowledge to satisfy my curiosity, it is pointless to keep probing. People would often be exasperated or would be unable to provide me the intuition. Therefore, these days, I pretty much probe very little and if it seems that my questions won't really be answered, I leave it at that, mentally noting to do some independent research on the internet.

u385639 5y ago
This is especially tough because of how much skill it takes for you the questioner to not make the other person feel stupid when they realize they can't answer your questions.
- d23 5y ago
  Yeah, I think the other thing that's made me shy away from it more as I've gotten older is asking the "stupid" question, getting a jargon-laden response, and realizing: this person isn't equipped to communicate the concept. It can be pretty exhausting to be the questioner in that case.
Kinrany 5y ago
Sometimes there are details one doesn't need to know to make a good decision. All of mathematics is built on this. However this only works when there is enough knowledge to know why the unimportant details won't matter.