6 ms·

Equality of outcome is easier to enforce by punishing the top percentile, rather than bringing the bottom percentiles up to par. By definition, there's less in

Equality of outcome is easier to enforce by punishing the top percentile, rather than bringing the bottom percentiles up to par. By definition, there's less in the upper percentile, so less work is needed. From my understanding of education in America, the path of least resistance is the one taken.

aaomidi 5y ago
> Equality of outcome is easier to enforce by punishing the top percentile More so the top percentile have the ability, and in my opinion, the moral responsibility to push the entire standard of education up for everyone, rather than their own kin.
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  I'm not sure the outcome you actually want here. Failing students for not performing at gifted levels is obviously not the outcome anyone wants.. What exactly should the gifted students be doing?
- robertlagrant 5y ago
  It's more important to watch the median standard of living explode upwards over the last 200 years than to blame the peak for being a little higher. It's not the top percentile who have the ability. We have to all do it for each other.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    > It's not the top percentile who have the ability. We have to all do it for each other. Sure. And part of that is making sure that wealth is being distributed with the health of society in mind, rather than individual happiness at the top :)
    - robertlagrant 5y ago
      > And part of that is making sure that wealth is being distributed with the health of society in mind, rather than individual happiness at the top :) Making sure it will happen will kill it. You have to have the right mechanisms in place to encourage it, and it may happen.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      Fixed pie fallacy. We have a shrinking middle class because the middle class has become the upper class, not because the rich are richer. The top being higher doesn't lower the base. There is more money today than a decade ago. Merely taking money from the wealthy does nothing to improve the standard of living.
      - aaomidi 5y ago
        Have literally any proof of what you're saying? > There is more money today than a decade ago. Where is it then?
        vorpalhex 5y ago
        https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 https://fee.org/articles/why-our-shrinking-middle-class-is-a-good-thing/ https://fee.org/articles/why-our-shrinking-middle-class-is-a... The answer to where the money has gone is sort of everywhere. Everything from social security payments to military budgets has increased. Everyone makes more and things cost more too.
  - tpush 5y ago
    The top percentile has much, much more ability to influence society than poorer people do. And with more power should always come more responsibility. To suggest that there's equally distributed chance, ability and responsibility is perverse; it flies in the face of reality.
    - robertlagrant 5y ago
      > To suggest that there's equally distributed chance, ability and responsibility is perverse; it flies in the face of reality. I didn't suggest that. And if I did, it wouldn't be perverse.
    - politician 5y ago
      Mutual aid networks are a real thing that really exist.
- IAmWorried 5y ago
  This is a little ridiculous. You expect elementary school students, now removed from their gifted classes, to "push the entire standard of education up for everyone"? I think they will be a little too concerned with Minecraft and Roblox to support your grand ideas of social justice and moral responsibility.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    > I think they will be a little too concerned with Minecraft and Roblox to support your grand ideas of social justice and moral responsibility. I mean other than the fact that this is extremely dismissive, again, Finland is the example that did get rid of all this crap and is doing pretty well for itself.
    - lrem 5y ago
      Are you from Finland to be so sure of your argument? I've been a "gifted" kid so I'm sure about your interlocutor's. My parents have been summoned, more than once, to have a discussion about a group of four problematic pupils spending ~75% of the time playing cards. Turns out that we were consistently finishing all of the assignments, including the stretch goals, at the beginning and spent the rest of the time waiting for the others to catch up. But somehow none of us got an idea to try to tutor a bully or something. The system also didn't have a response to this.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - 1123581321 5y ago
      Finland significantly increased the education standards for teachers and fired a lot of bad ones. Those two things will never happen in the US.
    - dmitrygr 5y ago
      > is doing pretty well for itself. Yup, world leader in startups, inventions, science, etc... oh wait...
- kurikuri 5y ago
  Which top percentile are you referring to, the wealthy citizens or the gifted children? I believe the comment you’re replying to is referring to the latter, while you’re referring to the former.
  - trutannus 5y ago
    Gifted students, this wasn't supposed to have anything to do with wealth distribution.
at_a_remove 5y ago
"Harrison Bergeron" all over again. It's astonishing to me. I'm handicapped, but I would never want to drag people down to my level. Occasionally, it becomes useful to remind people that "no, that isn't an option for me," but this just seems to be an urge to make everyone equally miserable if we can't all have it wonderful.
- trutannus 5y ago
  Crabs in a bucket effect, Harrison Bergeron, Ressentiment -- different names, same thing. Its always been there, but when we give into it and allow the sentiment to guide legislation, we go nowhere good.
bloodyplonker22 5y ago
Yep, and then these top percentile will leave the country or state and all of the value they create will go to another country or state. We can take, for example, Tesla leaving California for Texas.

aaomidi 5y ago

> Equality of outcome is easier to enforce by punishing the top percentile More so the top percentile have the ability, and in my opinion, the moral responsibility to push the entire standard of education up for everyone, rather than their own kin.

vorpalhex 5y ago
I'm not sure the outcome you actually want here. Failing students for not performing at gifted levels is obviously not the outcome anyone wants.. What exactly should the gifted students be doing?
robertlagrant 5y ago
It's more important to watch the median standard of living explode upwards over the last 200 years than to blame the peak for being a little higher. It's not the top percentile who have the ability. We have to all do it for each other.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  > It's not the top percentile who have the ability. We have to all do it for each other. Sure. And part of that is making sure that wealth is being distributed with the health of society in mind, rather than individual happiness at the top :)
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    > And part of that is making sure that wealth is being distributed with the health of society in mind, rather than individual happiness at the top :) Making sure it will happen will kill it. You have to have the right mechanisms in place to encourage it, and it may happen.
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Fixed pie fallacy. We have a shrinking middle class because the middle class has become the upper class, not because the rich are richer. The top being higher doesn't lower the base. There is more money today than a decade ago. Merely taking money from the wealthy does nothing to improve the standard of living.
    - aaomidi 5y ago
      Have literally any proof of what you're saying? > There is more money today than a decade ago. Where is it then?
      - vorpalhex 5y ago
        https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 https://fee.org/articles/why-our-shrinking-middle-class-is-a-good-thing/ https://fee.org/articles/why-our-shrinking-middle-class-is-a... The answer to where the money has gone is sort of everywhere. Everything from social security payments to military budgets has increased. Everyone makes more and things cost more too.
- tpush 5y ago
  The top percentile has much, much more ability to influence society than poorer people do. And with more power should always come more responsibility. To suggest that there's equally distributed chance, ability and responsibility is perverse; it flies in the face of reality.
  - robertlagrant 5y ago
    > To suggest that there's equally distributed chance, ability and responsibility is perverse; it flies in the face of reality. I didn't suggest that. And if I did, it wouldn't be perverse.
  - politician 5y ago
    Mutual aid networks are a real thing that really exist.
IAmWorried 5y ago
This is a little ridiculous. You expect elementary school students, now removed from their gifted classes, to "push the entire standard of education up for everyone"? I think they will be a little too concerned with Minecraft and Roblox to support your grand ideas of social justice and moral responsibility.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  > I think they will be a little too concerned with Minecraft and Roblox to support your grand ideas of social justice and moral responsibility. I mean other than the fact that this is extremely dismissive, again, Finland is the example that did get rid of all this crap and is doing pretty well for itself.
  - lrem 5y ago
    Are you from Finland to be so sure of your argument? I've been a "gifted" kid so I'm sure about your interlocutor's. My parents have been summoned, more than once, to have a discussion about a group of four problematic pupils spending ~75% of the time playing cards. Turns out that we were consistently finishing all of the assignments, including the stretch goals, at the beginning and spent the rest of the time waiting for the others to catch up. But somehow none of us got an idea to try to tutor a bully or something. The system also didn't have a response to this.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - 1123581321 5y ago
    Finland significantly increased the education standards for teachers and fired a lot of bad ones. Those two things will never happen in the US.
  - dmitrygr 5y ago
    > is doing pretty well for itself. Yup, world leader in startups, inventions, science, etc... oh wait...
kurikuri 5y ago
Which top percentile are you referring to, the wealthy citizens or the gifted children? I believe the comment you’re replying to is referring to the latter, while you’re referring to the former.
- trutannus 5y ago
  Gifted students, this wasn't supposed to have anything to do with wealth distribution.

at_a_remove 5y ago

"Harrison Bergeron" all over again. It's astonishing to me. I'm handicapped, but I would never want to drag people down to my level. Occasionally, it becomes useful to remind people that "no, that isn't an option for me," but this just seems to be an urge to make everyone equally miserable if we can't all have it wonderful.

trutannus 5y ago
Crabs in a bucket effect, Harrison Bergeron, Ressentiment -- different names, same thing. Its always been there, but when we give into it and allow the sentiment to guide legislation, we go nowhere good.

bloodyplonker22 5y ago

Yep, and then these top percentile will leave the country or state and all of the value they create will go to another country or state. We can take, for example, Tesla leaving California for Texas.