4 ms·

And perpetuating these biases is what makes it feel lonely and not welcoming to be a woman in engineering.

guilhas 5y ago
A woman in engineering should know that just because things have been probable in the past does not mean they will in the future For a guy growing around computers it has also been pretty lonely, more girls would have been welcome at any stage...
- cassonmars 5y ago
  Speaking from the other side of that perspective — being one of a few women in a CS program can be a very uncomfortable experience, especially a decade or two ago.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  > A woman in engineering should know that just because things have been probable in the past does not mean they will in the future I don't think I would tell someone what they "should" know. That 'knowledge' seems like an unlikely possibility: I think it probable that significant discrimination against women in tech will (very unfortunately) continue for another generation, at least. One signal to me is that many reject it in every way: Denial, anger, etc.
  - guilhas 5y ago
    I agree I shouldn't have to tell anyone, because it is pretty standard knowledge "things change" I would say there is no significant discrimination of women in tech I would say that there is a significant lack of interest of women for tech If anything there is positive discrimination in hiring for example, my manager already said if there are men and women applying, women will have the advantage. I guess they always had, it is just they are/were very fewer compared to men. Other example is my previous manager always available and keen to help the female colleagues, and busy for the male The only thing you could point out would be biased education even though women outperform men in all areas from basic to university, which gives them more choice And who can blame anyone, the majority of IT/Dev jobs are booring. Fill your head with technical knowledge, that in a couple of years is completely useless. Looks cool but useless. If I had the opportunity and and reasonable salary I would definitely change for something more in the areas of history philosophy politics...
  - azinman2 5y ago
    Just take a look at all the comments here. What you don't see is that I've been downvoted a ton as well, and in at least one comment that I think was removed, was called a cancer.
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      Remember that HN isn't representative of tech, and commenters aren't representative of readers. It's great that you speak up, and that you do it reasonably and respectfully.
      - azinman2 5y ago
        Thank you!
dekhn 5y ago
I don't ascribe completely to this philosophy. Also, I wrote "they" in my original comment.
- azinman2 5y ago
  You did write they. Which is why I called it out when I saw what I presumed was a presumed he (apparently you wrote it in another comment, so I was wrong in this specific case... the threading/timeline made that unclear). Regardless of your philosophy, the constant presumption of male hood is all over on HN if you're sensitive to watch for it. I don't know what your philosophy is, but the pattern absolutely is difficult for some people. So whether you ascribe to it or not, it is emblematic of the male-dominated culture that makes CS less appealing to women.
  - mathfailure 5y ago
    You are a cancer.
  - dekhn 5y ago
    I think this is an overly negative attitude. Note that I've worked for multiple very successful computer scientist women. They have no tolerance for folks who sit around and complain about the unfairness. It's clear their confidence, ego, and drive, allowed them to succeed. I slipped when I said he in the second comment. I normally prefer to not state the gender of people (to avoid the presumption of malehood) but I don't think it's as dire as you make out.
    - dTal 5y ago
      "Successful women in computer science are universally thick skinned, confident and driven, and would not have succeeded if it were not for those qualities." This appears to me to make the opposite point that you think it does.
      - dekhn 5y ago
        nope it doesn't. those are necessary but not sufficient skills for success in this field.

A woman in engineering should know that just because things have been probable in the past does not mean they will in the future For a guy growing around computers it has also been pretty lonely, more girls would have been welcome at any stage...

cassonmars 5y ago
Speaking from the other side of that perspective — being one of a few women in a CS program can be a very uncomfortable experience, especially a decade or two ago.
wolverine876 5y ago
> A woman in engineering should know that just because things have been probable in the past does not mean they will in the future I don't think I would tell someone what they "should" know. That 'knowledge' seems like an unlikely possibility: I think it probable that significant discrimination against women in tech will (very unfortunately) continue for another generation, at least. One signal to me is that many reject it in every way: Denial, anger, etc.
- guilhas 5y ago
  I agree I shouldn't have to tell anyone, because it is pretty standard knowledge "things change" I would say there is no significant discrimination of women in tech I would say that there is a significant lack of interest of women for tech If anything there is positive discrimination in hiring for example, my manager already said if there are men and women applying, women will have the advantage. I guess they always had, it is just they are/were very fewer compared to men. Other example is my previous manager always available and keen to help the female colleagues, and busy for the male The only thing you could point out would be biased education even though women outperform men in all areas from basic to university, which gives them more choice And who can blame anyone, the majority of IT/Dev jobs are booring. Fill your head with technical knowledge, that in a couple of years is completely useless. Looks cool but useless. If I had the opportunity and and reasonable salary I would definitely change for something more in the areas of history philosophy politics...
- azinman2 5y ago
  Just take a look at all the comments here. What you don't see is that I've been downvoted a ton as well, and in at least one comment that I think was removed, was called a cancer.
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    Remember that HN isn't representative of tech, and commenters aren't representative of readers. It's great that you speak up, and that you do it reasonably and respectfully.
    - azinman2 5y ago
      Thank you!

dekhn 5y ago

I don't ascribe completely to this philosophy. Also, I wrote "they" in my original comment.

azinman2 5y ago
You did write they. Which is why I called it out when I saw what I presumed was a presumed he (apparently you wrote it in another comment, so I was wrong in this specific case... the threading/timeline made that unclear). Regardless of your philosophy, the constant presumption of male hood is all over on HN if you're sensitive to watch for it. I don't know what your philosophy is, but the pattern absolutely is difficult for some people. So whether you ascribe to it or not, it is emblematic of the male-dominated culture that makes CS less appealing to women.
- mathfailure 5y ago
  You are a cancer.
- dekhn 5y ago
  I think this is an overly negative attitude. Note that I've worked for multiple very successful computer scientist women. They have no tolerance for folks who sit around and complain about the unfairness. It's clear their confidence, ego, and drive, allowed them to succeed. I slipped when I said he in the second comment. I normally prefer to not state the gender of people (to avoid the presumption of malehood) but I don't think it's as dire as you make out.
  - dTal 5y ago
    "Successful women in computer science are universally thick skinned, confident and driven, and would not have succeeded if it were not for those qualities." This appears to me to make the opposite point that you think it does.
    - dekhn 5y ago
      nope it doesn't. those are necessary but not sufficient skills for success in this field.