5 ms·

Well, I'd bet a big factor is that these spammy sites probably spend a lot of time on SEO - illuminating StackOverflow answers and official documentation don't.

hiyer 5y ago
True. If you search for any Python documentation the first links on Google are almost always geeksforgeeks, w3schools, etc instead of the official Python docs.
- judge2020 5y ago
  I think this is telling of how often the python docs actually solve peoples’ questions. For example, I searched “python string replace”, with the first 4 being tutorialpoint, w3schools, geeksforgeeks, stack overflow and at position 8 is the python docs. The issue with the python docs for this search is that it takes me to “built-in types”, and starts off with things totally irrelevant to what I want. I now have to go searching for string, then find the built-in method replace. Meanwhile, the other tutorial-esque websites almost all show an example of str.replace above the fold. If you’re Google and you’re trying to get people information faster, you’re going to promote the result that has more people not coming back to the search result page afterwards because it was hard to find the answer on that result.
  - sydthrowaway 5y ago
    Yup, python docs need to look at cppreference
  - Karrot_Kream 5y ago
    I think string replacement in Python is a particularly egregious example because strings are core language types. Library docs are a lot better organized and a lot more easily indexed. This is just a problem with Python's docs in general, imo.
  - schmorptron 5y ago
    This is true, and if you want the docs you can always just add the word docs to your query. Expecting the search engine to always favor one thing seems like it'd work well in this case for some people, but in other cases might get mushy
    - vitus 5y ago
      I personally configure custom search engines for things like this so if I want docs specifically, I'll type something like "py collections" which directs me to https://docs.python.org/3.10/search.html?q=collections https://docs.python.org/3.10/search.html?q=collections. I find this especially useful since I often otherwise find myself typing site:python.org (or similar things, like if I just want to see the MDN page instead of going through w3schools or blog posts for examples). edit: in the particular example for str.replace, I found it buried in the results for "py replace", at the top of "py str.replace" (helps if you know what Python calls the type) and basically nowhere for "py string replace".
  - xapata 5y ago
    You want Google to direct you to the correct anchor on the page. That makes sense, Google should do that. The docs shouldn't be broken out to 1 page per method because Google likes to link to the top of the page instead of the relevant anchor tag.
- smarx007 5y ago
  You should try adding "docs" to the query. "range python" shows w3schools at the top for me but "range python docs" shows docs.python.org first for me. Same for "html article tag" (w3schools) vs "html article tag docs" (MDN).
eloisius 5y ago
I guess I’m surprised that it’s not possible to quickly deindex these spam farms and render their SEO spend a waste. Especially Google, I’m surprised they can’t detect and ban SEO rings more effectively.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  The SEO places aren't dumb, they do their best to mimic legit content.
- thestepafter 5y ago
  I am surprised by this as well since Google is able to identify the origin of content (eg. Stackoverflow) and penalize sites for duplicating that content (or so they say). In my opinion it wouldn’t be difficult to identify the domains duplicating the content and penalize heavily. But, those sites are most likely displaying Google Ads so…
  - hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
    I just wish I could configure google to not show certain domains such as W3schools without adding a complex search query or installing plugins
    - bsder 5y ago
      This is such an easy optimization that Google has to have tried it and seen their ad revenue fall. "Permanently remove this site from search results" seems like the absolute easiest "personalization" to implement.
      - mynameismon 5y ago
        And the most certain too. You don't need to guess whether or not the user really needs that result
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        But what will Google do if users end up banning the majority of websites with Google Ads and/or analytics? The reason Google doesn't fight SEO spam (and just generally annoying/obnoxious behavior such as paywalls) more aggressively is because it doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds - all these spammy sites have ads or analytics that benefit Google.

hiyer 5y ago

True. If you search for any Python documentation the first links on Google are almost always geeksforgeeks, w3schools, etc instead of the official Python docs.

judge2020 5y ago
I think this is telling of how often the python docs actually solve peoples’ questions. For example, I searched “python string replace”, with the first 4 being tutorialpoint, w3schools, geeksforgeeks, stack overflow and at position 8 is the python docs. The issue with the python docs for this search is that it takes me to “built-in types”, and starts off with things totally irrelevant to what I want. I now have to go searching for string, then find the built-in method replace. Meanwhile, the other tutorial-esque websites almost all show an example of str.replace above the fold. If you’re Google and you’re trying to get people information faster, you’re going to promote the result that has more people not coming back to the search result page afterwards because it was hard to find the answer on that result.
- sydthrowaway 5y ago
  Yup, python docs need to look at cppreference
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  I think string replacement in Python is a particularly egregious example because strings are core language types. Library docs are a lot better organized and a lot more easily indexed. This is just a problem with Python's docs in general, imo.
- schmorptron 5y ago
  This is true, and if you want the docs you can always just add the word docs to your query. Expecting the search engine to always favor one thing seems like it'd work well in this case for some people, but in other cases might get mushy
  - vitus 5y ago
    I personally configure custom search engines for things like this so if I want docs specifically, I'll type something like "py collections" which directs me to https://docs.python.org/3.10/search.html?q=collections https://docs.python.org/3.10/search.html?q=collections. I find this especially useful since I often otherwise find myself typing site:python.org (or similar things, like if I just want to see the MDN page instead of going through w3schools or blog posts for examples). edit: in the particular example for str.replace, I found it buried in the results for "py replace", at the top of "py str.replace" (helps if you know what Python calls the type) and basically nowhere for "py string replace".
- xapata 5y ago
  You want Google to direct you to the correct anchor on the page. That makes sense, Google should do that. The docs shouldn't be broken out to 1 page per method because Google likes to link to the top of the page instead of the relevant anchor tag.
smarx007 5y ago
You should try adding "docs" to the query. "range python" shows w3schools at the top for me but "range python docs" shows docs.python.org first for me. Same for "html article tag" (w3schools) vs "html article tag docs" (MDN).

eloisius 5y ago

I guess I’m surprised that it’s not possible to quickly deindex these spam farms and render their SEO spend a waste. Especially Google, I’m surprised they can’t detect and ban SEO rings more effectively.

TulliusCicero 5y ago
The SEO places aren't dumb, they do their best to mimic legit content.
thestepafter 5y ago
I am surprised by this as well since Google is able to identify the origin of content (eg. Stackoverflow) and penalize sites for duplicating that content (or so they say). In my opinion it wouldn’t be difficult to identify the domains duplicating the content and penalize heavily. But, those sites are most likely displaying Google Ads so…
- hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
  I just wish I could configure google to not show certain domains such as W3schools without adding a complex search query or installing plugins
  - bsder 5y ago
    This is such an easy optimization that Google has to have tried it and seen their ad revenue fall. "Permanently remove this site from search results" seems like the absolute easiest "personalization" to implement.
    - mynameismon 5y ago
      And the most certain too. You don't need to guess whether or not the user really needs that result
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      But what will Google do if users end up banning the majority of websites with Google Ads and/or analytics? The reason Google doesn't fight SEO spam (and just generally annoying/obnoxious behavior such as paywalls) more aggressively is because it doesn't want to bite the hand that feeds - all these spammy sites have ads or analytics that benefit Google.