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>Hindenburg is the real deal. Hindenburg is not the real deal. If you think Hindenburg is the real deal you should pay closer attention to their activities. Th

>Hindenburg is the real deal. Hindenburg is not the real deal. If you think Hindenburg is the real deal you should pay closer attention to their activities. They (he) are one of a number of noisy short sellers who try to drive stock prices with their tweets/reports. SEC should be doing things to these people. That said, he is probably right about Tether. Tether should make every crypto speculator or holder very nervous.

andreilys 5y ago
Do you have an example of them targeting a non-fraudulent/fair-valued company and ruining them? As far as I know they were the ones who broke the NKLA scandal. We need short sellers to keep markets honest and stop fraudsters from taking advantage of the current exuberant markets.
cdolan 5y ago
They were right about Nikola and Lordstown Motors. I’m a Hinden-believer I suppose
- chii 5y ago
  you don't need to be a faithful believer - evidence speaks for itself. If hindenburg presents a short thesis, they would need to provide evidence in their papers. No one should be blindly believing them, just because they have a good past record.
  - pepoluan 5y ago
    > No one should be blindly believing them, just because they have a good past record. True. And that is why they don't act on just 'suspicion', but willing to pay to dollars for information.
- panick21_ 5y ago
  Anybody that has been following that space in any details already knew that Nikola and Lordstown were terrible companies. They did some minimal journalism on them and put it out. And nothing the showed outside of maybe that the truck was going down hill was in the least surprising.
wpietri 5y ago
Oh? Why should the SEC do anything? If it's wrong to talk about a company in hopes of affecting the stock price, shouldn't Elon Musk be doing hard time?
- jdhn 5y ago
  >shouldn't Elon Musk be doing hard time? He should be, but they basically gave him the same treatment they give a lot of people: a slap on the wrist.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    And forced him to step down as chair in 2018.
- fnordfnordfnord 5y ago
  1. Because that's market manipulation. 2. SEC did something to Musk, maybe you forgot, maybe you don't think it was enough, but they did something.
  - speedybird 5y ago
    > "The US Securities Exchange Act defines market manipulation as "transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security"." They are 'manipulating the market' in an informal sense, but not in the sense that actually matters. There is nothing wrong with publicly stating that you think some stock is overvalued. Particularly not if you back up your claim with some evidence, which is what Hindenburg does.
    - angry_octet 5y ago
      Relatedly, how does a 17 day old account, with no submissions, attract 416 karma points? Not commenting on the quality of your writing, but it seems extraordinary. Unfortunately the market history on HN is private.
  - wpietri 5y ago
ctvo 5y ago
> Hindenburg is not the real deal. If you think Hindenburg is the real deal you should pay closer attention to their activities. They (he) are one of a number of noisy short sellers who try to drive stock prices with their tweets/reports. SEC should be doing things to these people. https://hindenburgresearch.com/about-us/ https://hindenburgresearch.com/about-us/ Which of the items listed there do you have an issue with? Hindenburg were the folks who gave us Nikola rolling their truck down a hill.
- discodave 5y ago
  Technically Nikola gave us the truck rolling down the hill. Hindenburg just let us find out about it. :)
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    "Nikola One Electric Semi Truck in Motion." must have been the mother of all marketing lies. Technically 100% true, rotten to the core.
    - duskwuff 5y ago
      100% truthful, yet 100% dishonest.
- fnordfnordfnord 5y ago
  Yes, he has a website where he pats himself on the back for all of the good calls he's made. I've seen it. Ask yourself, why does a short seller need public confidence at all? It's because they want to be able to move the stock price when they publish something.
  - speedybird 5y ago
    > It's because they want to be able to move the stock price when they publish something. Publicity helps move the market which is how they make money. Why do you think that make [him|them] illegitimate? You've not explained this part. It seems to me that you've got an axe to grind with short sellers in general. Hindenburg seems to clearly be "the real deal", whether or not you approve of what "the real deal" is.
adrr 5y ago
Would you pay $1m for information that could let you profit 10x or even 100x?
- sumedh 5y ago
  Exactly, $1m feels very small for someone who could get more profit if they keep their mouth shut.
  - mrDmrTmrJ 5y ago
    Short selling profit depends on timing - i.e. the drop happening before the fees for shorting kill you. So I do have this information, and want to make $$$$$$$ it's actually in my interest to also collect $1M from Hindenburg, to make this information plabic, *after I've established my positions
    - stevespang 5y ago
      You can bet Hindenburg already has massive short positions somehow on all of this . . .
Leader2light 5y ago
[dead]
graeme 5y ago
They had a pretty serious report against Nikola that forced the CEO to step down and started an SEC investigation. They also forced a CEO stepdown at Lordstown motors, got the SEC to investigate and forced the company to amend their accounting statements. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_Research https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_Research And their reports have been pretty accurate this year based on long term market reaction: https://breakoutpoint.com/blog/2021/10/activist-short-selling-q3-2021/ https://breakoutpoint.com/blog/2021/10/activist-short-sellin...
- panick21_ 5y ago
  The thing is, anybody that actually followed that industry in any serious way and had any technical understanding knew that that company was full of shit. A number of stories were already floating around from former employees. The company was the most obvious scam I have seen in my life. With minimal intelligence and just 10 min of listening to the CEO made clear that it was a scam company. Sure they went threw the effort and and gathered that stuff up and did some research, but it was hardly some master-journalism that was required.
  - graeme 5y ago
    That may be, but the report had a striking effect. This is a thread about Tether, another company that is an obvious scam, that even once admitted in court a few years back that they were only 74% backed. If Hindenburg makes a report formalizing everything and getting some new research, that might well have a similar effect.
LurkingPenguin 5y ago
> They (he) are one of a number of noisy short sellers who try to drive stock prices with their tweets/reports. Are sell-side "analysts" who cheerlead their long recommendations not doing the same?
bleachedsleet 5y ago
This is like saying Z$ should make every fiat speculator or holder very nervous. Crypto is huge. You can be involved without coming anywhere near USDT.
- singularity2001 5y ago
  You think the shockwave of the tether collapse will leave any crypto unaffected? What if some trading platforms fold?
  - csomar 5y ago
    Unless they are exposed to USDT, why would they fold? They are trading Crypto against USDT (as a token). If USDT folds, its their customers that are going to hold the bag. But many exchanges have USDC too (and maybe their own USD pair); so users should be aware.

andreilys 5y ago

Do you have an example of them targeting a non-fraudulent/fair-valued company and ruining them? As far as I know they were the ones who broke the NKLA scandal. We need short sellers to keep markets honest and stop fraudsters from taking advantage of the current exuberant markets.

cdolan 5y ago

They were right about Nikola and Lordstown Motors. I’m a Hinden-believer I suppose

chii 5y ago
you don't need to be a faithful believer - evidence speaks for itself. If hindenburg presents a short thesis, they would need to provide evidence in their papers. No one should be blindly believing them, just because they have a good past record.
- pepoluan 5y ago
  > No one should be blindly believing them, just because they have a good past record. True. And that is why they don't act on just 'suspicion', but willing to pay to dollars for information.
panick21_ 5y ago
Anybody that has been following that space in any details already knew that Nikola and Lordstown were terrible companies. They did some minimal journalism on them and put it out. And nothing the showed outside of maybe that the truck was going down hill was in the least surprising.

wpietri 5y ago

Oh? Why should the SEC do anything? If it's wrong to talk about a company in hopes of affecting the stock price, shouldn't Elon Musk be doing hard time?

jdhn 5y ago
>shouldn't Elon Musk be doing hard time? He should be, but they basically gave him the same treatment they give a lot of people: a slap on the wrist.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  And forced him to step down as chair in 2018.
fnordfnordfnord 5y ago
1. Because that's market manipulation. 2. SEC did something to Musk, maybe you forgot, maybe you don't think it was enough, but they did something.
- speedybird 5y ago
  > "The US Securities Exchange Act defines market manipulation as "transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security"." They are 'manipulating the market' in an informal sense, but not in the sense that actually matters. There is nothing wrong with publicly stating that you think some stock is overvalued. Particularly not if you back up your claim with some evidence, which is what Hindenburg does.
  - angry_octet 5y ago
    Relatedly, how does a 17 day old account, with no submissions, attract 416 karma points? Not commenting on the quality of your writing, but it seems extraordinary. Unfortunately the market history on HN is private.
- wpietri 5y ago

ctvo 5y ago

> Hindenburg is not the real deal. If you think Hindenburg is the real deal you should pay closer attention to their activities. They (he) are one of a number of noisy short sellers who try to drive stock prices with their tweets/reports. SEC should be doing things to these people. https://hindenburgresearch.com/about-us/ https://hindenburgresearch.com/about-us/ Which of the items listed there do you have an issue with? Hindenburg were the folks who gave us Nikola rolling their truck down a hill.

discodave 5y ago
Technically Nikola gave us the truck rolling down the hill. Hindenburg just let us find out about it. :)
- jacquesm 5y ago
  "Nikola One Electric Semi Truck in Motion." must have been the mother of all marketing lies. Technically 100% true, rotten to the core.
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    100% truthful, yet 100% dishonest.
fnordfnordfnord 5y ago
Yes, he has a website where he pats himself on the back for all of the good calls he's made. I've seen it. Ask yourself, why does a short seller need public confidence at all? It's because they want to be able to move the stock price when they publish something.
- speedybird 5y ago
  > It's because they want to be able to move the stock price when they publish something. Publicity helps move the market which is how they make money. Why do you think that make [him|them] illegitimate? You've not explained this part. It seems to me that you've got an axe to grind with short sellers in general. Hindenburg seems to clearly be "the real deal", whether or not you approve of what "the real deal" is.

adrr 5y ago

Would you pay $1m for information that could let you profit 10x or even 100x?

sumedh 5y ago
Exactly, $1m feels very small for someone who could get more profit if they keep their mouth shut.
- mrDmrTmrJ 5y ago
  Short selling profit depends on timing - i.e. the drop happening before the fees for shorting kill you. So I do have this information, and want to make $$$$$$$ it's actually in my interest to also collect $1M from Hindenburg, to make this information plabic, *after I've established my positions
  - stevespang 5y ago
    You can bet Hindenburg already has massive short positions somehow on all of this . . .

Leader2light 5y ago

[dead]

graeme 5y ago

They had a pretty serious report against Nikola that forced the CEO to step down and started an SEC investigation. They also forced a CEO stepdown at Lordstown motors, got the SEC to investigate and forced the company to amend their accounting statements. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_Research https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_Research And their reports have been pretty accurate this year based on long term market reaction: https://breakoutpoint.com/blog/2021/10/activist-short-selling-q3-2021/ https://breakoutpoint.com/blog/2021/10/activist-short-sellin...

panick21_ 5y ago
The thing is, anybody that actually followed that industry in any serious way and had any technical understanding knew that that company was full of shit. A number of stories were already floating around from former employees. The company was the most obvious scam I have seen in my life. With minimal intelligence and just 10 min of listening to the CEO made clear that it was a scam company. Sure they went threw the effort and and gathered that stuff up and did some research, but it was hardly some master-journalism that was required.
- graeme 5y ago
  That may be, but the report had a striking effect. This is a thread about Tether, another company that is an obvious scam, that even once admitted in court a few years back that they were only 74% backed. If Hindenburg makes a report formalizing everything and getting some new research, that might well have a similar effect.

LurkingPenguin 5y ago

> They (he) are one of a number of noisy short sellers who try to drive stock prices with their tweets/reports. Are sell-side "analysts" who cheerlead their long recommendations not doing the same?

bleachedsleet 5y ago

This is like saying Z$ should make every fiat speculator or holder very nervous. Crypto is huge. You can be involved without coming anywhere near USDT.

singularity2001 5y ago
You think the shockwave of the tether collapse will leave any crypto unaffected? What if some trading platforms fold?
- csomar 5y ago
  Unless they are exposed to USDT, why would they fold? They are trading Crypto against USDT (as a token). If USDT folds, its their customers that are going to hold the bag. But many exchanges have USDC too (and maybe their own USD pair); so users should be aware.