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> Raise. The. Minimum. Wage. In the short term, obviously. But how about thinking about moving to an economic system where raising the minimum wage is not nec

> Raise. The. Minimum. Wage. In the short term, obviously. But how about thinking about moving to an economic system where raising the minimum wage is not necessary?

dv_dt 5y ago
The economic system we have now was that - it has both opportunity, available productivity, and growth and has not provided for the entire work base.
- dnautics 5y ago
  raising the minimum wage is necessary because compounding destruction of real value of nominal prices is baked into the system and without a systematic change if prices didn't rise, everything would collapse catastrophically. Perhaps we should consider a system where real value is not destroyed. Needing to raise the minimum wage is a symptom of this greater problem.
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    Agreed, I was probably unclear in that the system right now makes the only workable way forward with minimum wage increases. And also agreed it’s unclear how to shift the system. Personally I wonder if added tax incentives for living wage props would help. Ie wages are already deducted from income, but if an added “bonus” deduction on wages hitting a living wage range might provide some incentive.
    - dnautics 5y ago
      > the only workable way forward with minimum wage increases. >> In the short term, obviously. > how to shift the system. Well one thing is to have the federal reserve slowly increase its discount rate over fixed preset intervals, say: to 25% over the course of 5 years. At some point, nobody buys bonds at the discount rate anymore, and the fed is no longer necessary for banking operations (originally the fed was supposed to be "the bank of last resort" but it is more like "the source of money printing" now). You'd have to figure out how to make the fed no longer necessary to run government programs, but one can imagine if we cut out the cronyism, actually taxed corporations, and decreased our military budget by about 25% or so, we would be able to do just fine.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    >raising the minimum wage is necessary because compounding destruction of real value of nominal prices is baked into the system and without a systematic change if prices didn't rise, everything would collapse catastrophically. You mean growth dependence? That doesn't change the fact that you would need to represent negative yields which are hated just as much as the increase in the price level known as "inflation". The real world decays. If you do nothing, your assets and labor will decay and provide negative yields. >Perhaps we should consider a system where real value is not destroyed You mean like a video game where items never become obsolete or decay? Where labor can be stored and characters don't age? The truth is that the world is not like that and even video games suffer from wealth inequality even though they have a more idealized world. >Needing to raise the minimum wage is a symptom of this greater problem. I don't buy this. Minimum wage increases can go way beyond inflation.

> Raise. The. Minimum. Wage. In the short term, obviously. But how about thinking about moving to an economic system where raising the minimum wage is not necessary?

dv_dt 5y ago

The economic system we have now was that - it has both opportunity, available productivity, and growth and has not provided for the entire work base.

dnautics 5y ago
raising the minimum wage is necessary because compounding destruction of real value of nominal prices is baked into the system and without a systematic change if prices didn't rise, everything would collapse catastrophically. Perhaps we should consider a system where real value is not destroyed. Needing to raise the minimum wage is a symptom of this greater problem.
- dv_dt 5y ago
  Agreed, I was probably unclear in that the system right now makes the only workable way forward with minimum wage increases. And also agreed it’s unclear how to shift the system. Personally I wonder if added tax incentives for living wage props would help. Ie wages are already deducted from income, but if an added “bonus” deduction on wages hitting a living wage range might provide some incentive.
  - dnautics 5y ago
    > the only workable way forward with minimum wage increases. >> In the short term, obviously. > how to shift the system. Well one thing is to have the federal reserve slowly increase its discount rate over fixed preset intervals, say: to 25% over the course of 5 years. At some point, nobody buys bonds at the discount rate anymore, and the fed is no longer necessary for banking operations (originally the fed was supposed to be "the bank of last resort" but it is more like "the source of money printing" now). You'd have to figure out how to make the fed no longer necessary to run government programs, but one can imagine if we cut out the cronyism, actually taxed corporations, and decreased our military budget by about 25% or so, we would be able to do just fine.
- imtringued 5y ago
  >raising the minimum wage is necessary because compounding destruction of real value of nominal prices is baked into the system and without a systematic change if prices didn't rise, everything would collapse catastrophically. You mean growth dependence? That doesn't change the fact that you would need to represent negative yields which are hated just as much as the increase in the price level known as "inflation". The real world decays. If you do nothing, your assets and labor will decay and provide negative yields. >Perhaps we should consider a system where real value is not destroyed You mean like a video game where items never become obsolete or decay? Where labor can be stored and characters don't age? The truth is that the world is not like that and even video games suffer from wealth inequality even though they have a more idealized world. >Needing to raise the minimum wage is a symptom of this greater problem. I don't buy this. Minimum wage increases can go way beyond inflation.